Hobby Quick Hits Ep.184 Avoiding Fakes

SPEAKER 1: Hobby Quick hit, delivering that breaking hobby news directly to your ear.

SPEAKER 1: I know those had dropped from the car shaft.

SPEAKER 1: We've got you covered with your host, John, a new man.

SPEAKER 1: Welcome everyone to episode 1. 84 of Hobby. Quick hits some house cleaning notes before we get this episode started. We are prerecording this episode as we are at the National. Hopefully you are too and, and having, having a blast and, so no new segment.

SPEAKER 1: We'll do the new releases, because that really hasn't changed too much. So we'll cover the new releases. No news segment. And then today's topic is avoiding fakes, right? We, we talk about theft or getting taken.

SPEAKER 1: And you obviously have burglary robberies, but you can be taken when purchasing cards. Even getting a card for your money may not be real, may be altered.

SPEAKER 1: So how to avoid that? And there's a lot of great information out there that I'm gonna share, with to, to avoid falling down, that prat fall and, you know, that kind of stuff if you have ever been taken, is really, really, it hurts number one and can really ruin your hobby.

SPEAKER 1: Experience hobbies. And I've known people who gotten taken and that was the last thing they did in the hobby. They were so fed up, they left, you know, sad to see, in a few cases where I've seen that. So, we don't want to see that happen. Right. We wanna share information.

SPEAKER 1: Keep everyone hobby safe if you will. And, I'm gonna share some of that information, on this show. So, we're gonna take a, a quick, commercial break then, see what's coming out in the next couple of weeks and then tackle how to be safe and avoid fake or altered card.

SPEAKER 2: Ok. Now, a quick word from our great sponsor followed by the new product release schedule. Then we'll go around the hobby verse to tell you all the latest hobby happenings and news. Then we'll tackle today's topic of discussion.

SPEAKER 3: Hi, this is Pat Hughes Cubs announcer coming to you from the Sports Card shop in beautiful New Buffalo. Michigan. The Goer family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the Sports Card shop.com connecting sports athletes, the hobby and collectors around the world.

SPEAKER 4: Hi, this is Allen Pinkett and I'm here to tell you the Goer family has done it again.

SPEAKER 4: They've just opened up the sport card shop in downtown Valparaiso, Indiana.

SPEAKER 4: And it is awesome.

SPEAKER 4: If you're a collector, you need to check this place out. Tell them Alan sent you and get a free gift on your first visit.

SPEAKER 1: All right, you got me doing the next two weeks of what's coming out, on the wax product front. Let's start with the end of the month here, July 31st, we have 2023 Panini donors Optic Football same day. 2324 Panini impeccable soccer, same day as well. 2024 tops museum collection. Baseball on the second of August, we have Pokemon Scarlett and Violet shrouded Fable King Drug Grain Jex special illustration collection.

SPEAKER 1: Try saying that 10 times real fast.

SPEAKER 1: Same day, Pokemon Scarlet and Violet shrouded fable many 10 elite trainer boxes, the King gambit illustration collection and the three pack blister packs on 87 Game of Thrones House of the Dragon season one along with the collectors album as well. August 7th 2023 24 Panini Mosaic basketball, 2024.

SPEAKER 1: Panini prism WWE 2024 tops chrome baseball monster boxes, 2023 leaf Trinity baseball, 2024 upper deck. Marvel masterpieces extra large 2023 24 upper deck XPX hockey. So August 7th, a big release day. Let's move to the 9th, 2023 24 Panini immaculate soccer upper deck Halo Legacy collection and we'll close with the releases on the 14th which include 2023. Panini's contenders Optic Football, 2023 24.

SPEAKER 1: Panini impeccable basketball in 2024 tops. Complete baseball. Factory sets hit the market. So there's your releases for the next two weeks, as I always say, choose your weapon. Happy ripping. So let me start out asking everyone out there listening a question. Do you work hard for your money? Do you earn your money?

SPEAKER 1: I think most of you probably heard that either made a, a weird face or nodded your head. Yes. Right. I think we all, you know, feel we work hard and earn our money. Maybe some of us even think we're underpaid. Right. So, you, you, you work hard, you earn your money.

SPEAKER 1: And, you, right, you don't wanna get ripped off or taken, for a ride and especially on the hobby side of things. Right. The hobby is supposed to be fun, enjoyable and usually is. Right. But there are situations, where people get, you know, bamboozled out of their money but buying a illegitimate card, right?

SPEAKER 1: A fake slab, a fake, counterfeit card. And I can tell you, you know, I've done some bulk subbing for SGC now for 18 months and I can tell you firsthand from taking in other people's cards. I'm not the greater, I'm the middleman here.

SPEAKER 1: But where I'm going with this is, I can tell you that I get, you know, and not necessarily every, order I submit. But, you know, cards come back as counterfeit Pokemon cards, especially, I probably have had more Pokemon counterfeits than, than Sports Card counterfeits. But on both sides of those aisles, I've had counterfeits come, on both.

SPEAKER 1: I, I even go further than that. I've had people sub cards come up to my submission table and I, I in, in looking at the card, you're subbing, I have, I can already detect that a card is, a fake. And I, and, you know, I'm very honest. Right. I'll tell the person like, I'm not sure where you got this.

SPEAKER 1: But if you can, you know, rescind the deal, this is not a genuine, you know, real mccoy of this car.

SPEAKER 1: You know, a lot of times in those cases, they thank me and obviously they, I've saved them a submission fee. You know, in some cases, the person will say, you know, I still like to send it. Not that I don't believe you John. But I still like to send it and have SGC kind of tell me what you just did.

SPEAKER 1: And, we've done that too and in, in all those cases, unfortunately, you know, those cards come back as, as Fugazi and, and counterfeits and you hate to see it. Right. It's a black eye for the hobby. It's a bad look for the hobby, but anytime there's money that that can be made and this is not exclusive to the hobby. But anytime there's money that can be made unscrupulously, without morals, somebody's gonna find a way to do it.

SPEAKER 1: Right. We just had a, you know, a heist, in Dallas of a lot of cards and people are going to steal, burglarize, make phony cards to profit. That's just human nature. It's been like that since the beginning of time. So, I, I put this episode together with some tips and strategies, you know, to hope that you're not a victim or don't get caught up in that sort of toil, right?

SPEAKER 1: And, and what to look out for and that sort of thing. And it's even more than just the raw card, right? There are fake slabs. This is the next level. People are not only faking cards but making fake PS A slabs, fake sec slabs, fake Beckett slabs.

SPEAKER 1: So you, you know, you need to pay attention and be aware that, you know, just cause the card is in a graded slab, you know, probably 99.8% are all real mccoys, but it's not 100 and we need to be aware of that. So, you know, where to start. Right. Right. Talk to people ask people do some research, Google some stuff, especially on a, on a bigger purchase, right. Obviously you're buying a card for 20 bucks, you know.

SPEAKER 1: You know, it's a little different than buying a car for 456 figures. Right. But regardless be knowledgeable. Right. Knowledge is, is power. Do the research? Google stuff, ask people get opinions.

SPEAKER 1: You know, again, but there are some great books out there pertaining to, fakes. My friend, you know, Ryan Nolan wrote one called Spotting Fakes. Right. It's a great book where it really tackles what to look for. Read that book. It's not a big book. You can read it in a, in a, in a couple of days.

SPEAKER 1: And, and there's other books too, and, and to be fair to other actors. But, you know, I know Ryan, it's a, it's a great book and he really is thorough with, and he tackles, you know, some of the most counterfeited cards in the hobby. That's the other thing. Be aware of what cards are the most counterfeited cards in the hobby. That's, that's half the battle right there.

SPEAKER 1: Right. What things can you do yourself? Right. What tools can you employ to maybe examine, a card? Some of them are in your pocket probably right. Now, what do I mean by that? Well, you know, if you have a smartphone, you most likely do that flashlight part, right. The flash that you can turn on to see better, maybe in a dark situation.

SPEAKER 1: That's also a car tool because when you deal with vintage cards, you know, with the exception of the thin stock 1959 top set that light should not pass through a card.

SPEAKER 1: You know, it's not 100% true across the board, but it's very, very close to that. So if that flash, if that light from your, your smartphone passes through the card, from front to back or back to front, that stock is too thin and relatively to the real card. And so right there, the flashlight test can be one of the first things you can do, right?

SPEAKER 1: You can go further right at home. You're probably not carrying a black light around with you everywhere you go. But if you have a black light, you can get them on Amazon. They're cheap. You have that at home, you put AAA cards under a black light, the fakes will glow luminescent.

SPEAKER 1: Ok? Where the real ones will not change their appearance wise and that has to do with the chemical process and the card stock as well. So black light flashlight loop a loop, right? A jeweler's loop that we use in cards, right? I fit in pocket. I have bring one to all the shows I do as well, right?

SPEAKER 1: Some of these fakes, right are using dot matrix patterns that didn't exist at the time of the real printing of the cards. So look, it's it it can be very apparent another telltale giveaway, right? Comp also when, when we, you know, talk, you know, going back to the light test too real quick. I had a, a gentleman, this was last year. This gentleman came up to my sec submission table at the Syracuse Show at the fairgrounds.

SPEAKER 1: And he had a, Lou Gehrig, play ball card and immediately when he handed over and said, I'd like to get this graded as soon as I saw it. I'm, I'm not gonna lie. I, you know, I've been doing this for a long time. 40 something years. I knew like the card was 99% not real. And you know, you want to use tax, you don't want to crush them.

SPEAKER 1: You don't want to ruin someone's day. But I said to him, I said, sir, I gotta be honest with you. I'm pretty sure this is not, genuine and he then proceeded to tell me, well, my dad had it in his collection and he, he gave it to me. It has to be real. And I pointed out the things that I thought made it a fake. One of them was, and this is something to look for too.

SPEAKER 1: It had what we in the, in the hobby called, you know, intentional wear, right? All four corners had like rounded corners, but they were all exactly rounded the same way. And you know, if you know, if you look at a, a real vintage card, right? They may have, have four rounded corners or four corners with corner wee, but look at each of those four corners that's gonna have different wear patterns, right?

SPEAKER 1: They're not gonna be like carbon copies of each other. But when a lot of these counterfeiters do this intentional wear, they create a really a one sort of template. And so the, the four rounded corners, you know, kind of look almost identical and that's, that's that's the first giveaway.

SPEAKER 1: Also, there was a little paper loss on the back. And so that's another thing that couldn't be not as common as the rounded corners, but people can add paper loss to a fake card just to try to sell it that see, it's real. It's, it's, it's got some paper loss.

SPEAKER 1: And I, you know, I, I, so I, you know, I felt bad, you know, the guy's telling me that his dad gave it to him. But, you know, I said, well, I, let's do the light test. He said, what's the light test? And I explained it just like I just talked about here a few minutes ago and I said light should not pass through this card. And I did it and it did, the light passed through.

SPEAKER 1: And I happened to have a play ball card. I pulled not the Lou Gehrig, but I pulled another play ball card out and did the light test on that. It didn't go through. And I, you know, we, I showed him and, you know, he really didn't seem convinced.

SPEAKER 1: I think he was really caught up that his dad gave it to him and he insisted on sending it in and I said, I'm, I'm 99% sure it's gonna, you know, CC is gonna grade it, counterfeit, but it's your dime and, you know, for your own ease of mind, but I'm just warning you, that's what you're looking at.

SPEAKER 1: So he submitted it and sure enough, you know, a couple of weeks later, came back as, you know, counterfeit and called and spoke to him and you know, broke the bad news and told me it was kind of like we discussed at the show and he didn't say a lot, you know, I think he was a little bit shocked and, you know, you know, I don't know whether the father's story is real or, or not real.

SPEAKER 1: I'm gonna give him the benefit of doubt. And apparently if that, if that's the case, then, you know, unfortunately dad got taken and hopefully didn't lose, you know, a lot of money in, in any kind of transaction.

SPEAKER 1: Like that funny little kind of PS to the story. You know, the gentleman said, I, I still wanna pick, even though it came back as counterfeit, I'll pick it up at the next show and never came, left a voicemail. Hey, didn't see you. You never came to the show.

SPEAKER 1: I, I'll, I'll keep bringing the card and hopefully, you know, you, you pick it up, never came and got the card. So I actually still have this counterfeit Garrick card sitting in the box here, under my desk. You know, and just in case the gentleman ever calls and says I still want it back. Right.

SPEAKER 1: It's not my car, you know, I just was the, the bulk submitter for it. But, you know, and I i it's sad if, if that story is really true and, you know, here he thought he was getting a beautiful piece from his dad something to remember his dad by and, and unfortunately, did not have a really great ending or, or outcome.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, again, you know, that's why we're doing this show, right? It's to hopefully avoid you being in a similar situation.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, we talked about things with, with raw cards and that, but let's talk about slabs, right? Unfortunately, people are making fake slabs as well.

SPEAKER 1: And now the one thing I wanna say with any card raw graded, if the deal seems too good to be true, that should raise an early red flag if you know, hey, this card is really $2000 and the seller only wants $500 for it, especially online or in like a Facebook marketplace, your ears need to perk, perk up.

SPEAKER 1: I'm not saying their deals can't be had and people get pretty good buys every day, but generally that should raise some red flag, right?

SPEAKER 1: When that occurs also, you know, it's always nice to have a example of that card even if it's not the same player. But like what I said with the Garrick, I had a play ball card that I could compare that Gehrig to and show the gentleman kind of the difference, the light test, right?

SPEAKER 1: Always, you know, nice to have, you know, even if it's not the same player, but an example from that set.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, you can kind of line them up, see the size, right? Maybe if, if the one you're thinking about purchasing is does it match up size rise? Right? You start, have you start having the question? Has this card been been trimmed? Speaking of trimming, you know, a lot of times, you know, the car has really sharp edges and corners and it's an old car.

SPEAKER 1: That's, that's also another red flag. Be careful of dark colored cards, right? The 1971 tops those black bordered cards. You know, I talked about how I get cards back from my bulk subs, you know, counterfeit. I get some more cards especially particularly from that 1971 set where it has, you know, color added, someone took a black sharpie and made a white corner, not a white corner anymore or edges that were showing white.

SPEAKER 1: They filled it in with a black sharpie to conceal, you know, normal wear and tear over the years. So be careful with coloring added to cards as well, especially on black border cards, but not exclusively the black border cards.

SPEAKER 1: It can be done with any color. So look at the card also from the side angle, I've seen many, you know, people want to sell me cards. I've looked at the card from the side, right? And you can see the sharpie, right. They just didn't do a good job keeping it only where they, it's, it's bled over into something else where you can see it, right.

SPEAKER 1: And I've said, like, you know, there's color added here. I'm not saying you did it. I'm just saying it's, it's done.

SPEAKER 1: Well, you know, whether the person you got it from, did it or the person they got it from did it. It's on this card. And it's, it's a factor now.

SPEAKER 1: You know, so be aware of that as well, but again, it's not just cards, right? It's also slabs. Now, we're seeing some fake slabs and this is where it gets a little tricky, I think for me, it's harder to tell sometimes a fake slab from a fake card. But things to look for fake slabs tend to creak when you twist them a little bit. Two hands. I'm not saying forcefully, try to snap the slab in half.

SPEAKER 1: But if you move it a little bit, you will hear the creak and you say, well, you know what's the creak from? It's from the not being sealed, sonically. So there's a, creakiness. Now, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that every slab that creaks is 100% fake. That's, that's probably not even accurate, but it is something, a test you can do to kind of to, to, to determine that a field test, right?

SPEAKER 1: I've handled countless thousands of PS A Beckett SGC slabs. You handle them that much. You can to, to no weight just unconsciously. I'm, I'm not saying you put on a scale but you just, you get used to the slab, right? So if you're familiar with a slab, take a look at the slab in question and see if it feels right, right. It feels the same, it's as the same sort of heft in your hand.

SPEAKER 1: Sometimes it could be a fake slab could be too heavy or it could even be too light that one's kind of, but just a a gut hunch type of deal. But the number one thing is, is the flip, right?

SPEAKER 1: I know Beckett fakes fake. Beckett's labs, have a different serial number. The the counterfeiters use different serial numbers so you can go online and that's another thing, plenty of online resources as well as my podcast and other podcasts, right? Flip can be you know, just like the dot matrix print on a fake card. Look at the print on the flip, compare it to, you know, a real flip from that grading company.

SPEAKER 1: You know, check out the serial numbers. That's the other thing, most grading card companies, especially the big ones, you can reference the serial number. So you type in the serial number, it should come out that car and they also provide a picture, match those pictures up. I mean, people can steal, steal serial numbers and, and do all that. So it's, that's not the end.

SPEAKER 1: All be all but kind of do some detective work right with your eyes and, and do some of the research again. We're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up there but be wary. It's not just cards, it's slabs as well. And folks there's plenty of resources in book form online, audio that can help you navigate this terrain and help you avoid a situation where you could lose your hard earned money.

SPEAKER 1: Like we, we started off with that question and we don't wanna, we don't wanna see that right. So, my door is always open. You know, I don't want to say I can prevent every, every rip off from happening, but I've done it long enough. I might be able to provide a little insight there but always do, you know, always proceed with caution.

SPEAKER 1: You know, keep your head on a swivel and try to be as smart as you can. All right, that's gonna do it. All right. Thank you for listening to another episode of Hobby Quick. Its wanna give out our Social Media starting with our website, which is www dot sports Carnation podcast.com, Facebook. You can follow us at www.Facebook.com/sports Carnation podcast forward slash Twitter. We are at Sports Card.

SPEAKER 1: Nat T one. So it's Sports Card nat I one Instagram at Sports Car Nation Podcast. Or you can email the show Hobby Quick hits at gmail.com again. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER 1: We'll see you next week.