Hobby Quick Hits Ep.179 Alteration Thoughts/Grading Tips

SPEAKER 1: Hobby quick hit, delivering that breaking Hobby news directly to your in laws.

SPEAKER 1: I know those had dropped from the car shaft.

SPEAKER 1: We've got you covered with your host, John, a new man.

SPEAKER 1: Welcome to episode 179 of Hobby Quick Hits.

SPEAKER 1: Today, it's an episode I've sort of done before. We're gonna talk a little bit about grading the process tips, tricks. Well, I mix in there, you know, I've never really come out and do, done a whole episode about my thoughts on card altering restoration, cleaning, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 1: So I'm gonna integrate that into this episode, but I didn't want the episode to just be my take on that cause my take on that's pretty direct short and sweet and, and probably 23 minutes and, and it's covered. So I wanted to kind of encompass it, talking about grading tips and, and processes and, and different things, like that.

SPEAKER 1: So that's what this episode will be about. Let's, hear from our great sponsor. We'll get to the product release calendar. Some Hobby news, a lot of news, since the last time we talked and then might take an restoration slash Grady.

SPEAKER 2: Ok. Now a quick word from our great sponsor followed by the new product release schedule. Then we'll go around the Hobby verse to tell you all the latest Hobby happenings and news. Then we'll tackle today's topic of discussion.

SPEAKER 3: Hi, this is Pat Hughes Cubs announcer. Coming to you from the Sports Card shop in beautiful New Buffalo. Michigan. The Goer family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the Sports Card shop.com connecting sports athletes, the Hobby and collectors around the world.

SPEAKER 4: Hi, this is Allen Pinkett and I'm here to tell you the Goer family has done it again.

SPEAKER 4: They've just opened up the sport card shop in downtown Valparaiso, Indiana and it is awesome. If you're a collector, you need to check this place out. Tell them Allen sent you and get a free gift on your first visit.

SPEAKER 1: All right, I'll be doing the new release product calendar.

SPEAKER 1: On this show. Let's talk about what's coming out the next two weeks. Let's start with May 22nd. We have a couple of products here. 2023 24 Panini select basketball H two same day, 2023 tops, chrome, platinum anniversary baseball liked last year's edition.

SPEAKER 1: Couple of days later on the 24th, 2024 leaf metal pickle ball. No, I am, although I play, I am not in this set. Same day 2023. Panini chronicles WWE also on the 24th, 2023 Panini clearly Donner's football, one of my favorite products I look forward to every year as I as you know how I feel about a to take cards. Also on the 24th 2023 24. Panini select serie A soccer.

SPEAKER 1: Staying on the 24th Pokemon Paradox Clash 10 Pokemon scarlet and Violet twilight masquerade various forms and products. There. Also on the 24th Yu Gi 0 25th anniversary anniversary Rarity collection part two.

SPEAKER 1: Moving to the 29th, 2023 24 Panini Obsidian basketball. Also on the 29th, 2024 Panini stars and stripes, baseball and closing out May. These are all May 31st releases 2024 at least medal signature series 2023 24 Panini select premier league soccer.

SPEAKER 1: And that will do it for the next couple of weeks. As you know, I always say, choose your weapon. Happy ribbon.

SPEAKER 5: Let's go round the Hobby verse and catch up on this week's Hobby news.

SPEAKER 1: And find out.

SPEAKER 1: All right, PS A has a new graded card holder three years in the works. Nat, if you remember when Nat Turner was on Sports Car Nation Podcast, he actually had a prototype and said it would be on the horizon. And now it will be here at the end of May. What's the difference it will look the same, it's the same size. So if you have any kind of displays, you won't have to change those out.

SPEAKER 1: It's just a heavier medical, medical grade plastic, which is a little more UV, resistant, more shatterproof and scratch proof and UV, rated. So, keep some of that sunlight from fading your card as fast. So, like I said, we'll be at the end of May, we'll get that, new you know, new holders. All right, top says the Premier league soccer back.

SPEAKER 1: They used to have it and they lost it when Panini outbid him. And in May of 2025 fanatics has acquired the licensing and so premier league soccer will be back with the tops logo starting in May of 2025 Gamestop. Yeah, that Gamestop, the one that does video games is getting into the card business, sort of indirectly.

SPEAKER 1: So you can bring PS A cards graded eight or above but not valued more than 500 to Gamestop for potential trade and sale. So you can either if they want your cards, they will give you a choice, either a Gamestop gift certificate or gift certificate that can be used anywhere at any lo store. If you opt for the in-house Gamestop gift certificate, you will get 40% more.

SPEAKER 1: If you opt out and for the general public gift card, you'll get 40% less. Don't know how they're gonna, you know, if they're gonna hire people with card knowledge. But, the report I read says they will have a price guide put out by someone internally that says what kind of credit they can issue for certain cards.

SPEAKER 1: I'm imagining the cards have to be listed in that document to be acquired by Gamestop. So I don't know how this is gonna look, I don't know how much call they're gonna get. But Gamestop getting into at least PS A graded cards. Speaking of PS A done deal with ebay with golden.

SPEAKER 1: So if you have your cards graded by PS A, you can seamlessly now add them to an ebay auction without ever being shipped back to you. The ebay vault is now the Golden Vault, collectors PS A vault.

SPEAKER 1: And any card you sell through PS A through ebay, will have just a flat fee based on sale.

SPEAKER 1: The fee will be anywhere from 7 to 16%. The higher the value it brings, the lower, the percentage you'll have to pay, the lower it brings, you'll hit that 16% Mark. So that is now official going back to the Gamestop story. It's only being rolled out in so many states.

SPEAKER 1: Let me go over those states, Connecticut, Georgia, Michigan, Kentucky, my home state of New York, Tennessee and Texas. So that's where it's being rolled out. I got a feeling this is gonna be a trial run. I don't think they're gonna fare too well and I think that'll, they'll scrap it. That's my prediction. Stay tuned. We'll see how right or wrong.

SPEAKER 1: I was a lawsuit going on. So Sandeep Dua, former CEO of Beckett, terminated in 2022 is now suing his former co, employer for back money owed, in the amount of $12 million Nike.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, $12 million. All in total with between a salary bonus incentives, stock holding options, all that. He says he's, they've shorted him 12 million bucks. So, stay tuned to see how, that story unfolds. He also mentioned in his affidavit that, he believes he is not being paid because Beckett is having cash flow problems. So, I wouldn't say that's probably far off the beaten path, but again, we'll see how this all shakes out.

SPEAKER 1: Now, our feature presentation.

SPEAKER 1: All right. So today's topic, some grading tips, techniques, advice if you will. But, you know, I haven't done really a show yet where I've given my take on the card cleaning slash restoration. You know, my thoughts on it, whether I support it against it, that sort of thing. So wanted to do an episode where I kind of combine these two topics, tackle and put them together.

SPEAKER 1: So before we get into grading tips and techniques and and that fun stuff. Let me, let me tackle, you know, the hot topic, recently when it comes to card cleaning and rolling out creases and obviously trimming, to me is a no brainer. That is, I, I don't support that. You are, altering the card.

SPEAKER 1: It's why grading companies will either not grade them or grade them and give them an altered grade. It's not how the card was originally out of the pack or produced. So that one is a lay up in, in my book. I, I don't support that. I won't knowingly purchase a card that's been trimmed. I definitely will not sell a card knowingly that's been trimmed. And so that, that one's easy rolling out creases.

SPEAKER 1: I don't agree with that. E either. Again, you're are making the card thinner and bigger than it was originally because you're rolling out the crease and what some people do when they do this technique is they roll out the crease and then trim the size to you know, be more accurate to, to the size.

SPEAKER 1: But again, now the card will be thinner stock and that's how a lot of these grading card companies can detect that color added, adding, you know, you take like a 1971 tops card, the black border famous card, you know, people take a black sharpie or some kind of black marker and you know, fill in the, the white edging or white spots.

SPEAKER 1: And I don't agree with that. You know, now I've heard the argument folks, you know, they restore famous works of art, you know, and they try to draw that line of comparison. I just, I don't do that. I don't, I do, I don't see the correlation now, works of art, you know, to, and again, I'm not an art expert or master, but there are only one of each of those pieces of art done by those artists.

SPEAKER 1: And so they're trying to keep those intact as close to the original and they still obviously hold their value. But we're not talking about one of one cards here, we're talking about in most cases mass produced cards and so I can't support card altering or Recolor organization.

SPEAKER 1: So that's another one. Now, let's get into the cleaning. Now here's where it gets more interesting. Now, when I'm grading, I will take a microfiber cloth and special on a chromium card, wipe a card down and, you know, get off maybe fingerprints or any kind of residue, print residue. That's, that's fine.

SPEAKER 1: In my book.

SPEAKER 1: But I, I never use chemicals. So I'm using, you know, to, pardon?

SPEAKER 1: You know, I'm gonna be honest, I'm using saliva, right? And kind of wet in that microfiber, you know, real quick and then using that to wipe the car down.

SPEAKER 1: And then you know, using the other part of the microfiber cloth that's not moist to, to dry it and, and, you know, take the moisture off it now that I have no problem. But, you know, chemicals, alcohol, who knows what other type of chemicals? I don't support that. I don't use it. I don't want to buy a car that's had chemicals added to it even if temporarily.

SPEAKER 1: And we don't know, You know, I know some of these cleaning companies that produce these products that, oh, there's no long term effects. The, you know, the grading companies can't, can't tell that we've used them. Now. Listen, I, I've said this, I think in Hobby hotline. Right.

SPEAKER 1: You know, we have forensics in, in this country for, it's not a new thing where they, you know, blood can be detected even after, cleaning bleach can be detected, which is a cleaning agent. Right. These card companies wanna tell if an, an alcohol agent or cleaning agent has been added to a card. They can, they can, they can tell if they wanted to. So, that's number one, that's not, that's not a true statement.

SPEAKER 1: The other thing is we don't know what some of these chemical agents will do long term. Yeah. Right now it looks fine. But chemicals break down. I'm a science guy. Like, that's my favorite, one of my favorite subject. Chemicals break down over time. Even natural chemicals that are made to make the card. Take finest, for example, 9693 finest, specifically 96 right?

SPEAKER 1: If you have a 96 finest and you don't have it in a box with light, not getting to it, look at it. Now, the colors are faded and I know most of the, most of the companies won't give an old finest card higher than a six with the coloration faded or turns green.

SPEAKER 1: And that's a natural occurrence with the process of making the card in the face first place. Now you're as now you're adding alcohol or other chemical solvents. We don't know, years, 10 years from now, 20 years from now.

SPEAKER 1: What it will do to the card long term and yeah, it might be in that grading case and have a nine or 10, but look terrible. Right? I guess you don't care at that point cause you got the grade you wanted. But you know, I guess I do maybe more than some. So I'm not a chemical or solvent added to the gu card guy and I'll just close with this.

SPEAKER 1: You know, someone said, well, what about John, what about taking wax off an old card, you know, card when, when gum used to be in the packs if I I that is different because the wax is technically not part of the original card. If you can take the wa the wax off with a microfiber cloth and no chemicals somehow.

SPEAKER 1: Ii, I, I'm ok with that. Yeah, but I just don't like the use of chemicals, post-production process. And so that's where, you know, I kind of draw the line there.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, if you can get a wax stain off with old fashioned elbow grease and a, a cloth or microfiber cloth or some type of, of rag or cloth without doing additional damage to the card or adding a chemical to the card. I'll give a thumbs up on that as well, but no trimming, rolling out creases, thinning the card, adding chemicals to the card.

SPEAKER 1: That's where I draw the line. That's a no go for me. And I don't see the comparison between one of one fine works of art and cards that there's usually thousands of copies up. So, I don't, I don't connect those dots. So that being said, let's talk about grading. I've talked about my process before.

SPEAKER 1: You know, when grading first came out, I was not into grading, I thought it was a money grab. Obviously these years later, I've done a 180. You know, that's the beauty of the Hobby. You can change your mind. Grading is important for the provenance of the card, the authenticity of the card to give you a ballpark range. Again, grading is objective.

SPEAKER 1: So a ballpark range of what condition it is. And you know, and in turn a, a value that can be placed on that card. Whether it's for selling, whether it's for buying, whether that's for insurance purposes. All important reasons, that I support, card grading. You know, is there too much that's not for me, is there too much cards getting graded?

SPEAKER 1: That's not for me to say people want to spend their money on getting a Greg G you know, gea cards, Grady cause it was their favorite Minnesota twin. Who am I to tell them? That's kind of, you know, it doesn't make any sense, it makes sense for them. There's nothing wrong with that, right? That's their personal childhood memories and they wanna, you know, savor them and encapsulate them.

SPEAKER 1: So no problem there. So you know, to each their own whatever you want to grade your grade and you know, that's how I am. I have cars that are graded that some people might say. Why did you grade that? Yeah, I don't really make and I have others that are no brainers too, right?

SPEAKER 1: So to each their own, as I always say, right? Hobby your way, some tips. Well, when I grade my own personal cards now I wanted, I wanted, you know, fully be transparent. I am a bulk subber for SGC. So I do shows locally and sometimes travel a little bit where I take, you know, other people's cards for bulk rate submissions to SGC.

SPEAKER 1: I average about 5 to 800 cards a month intake there where I send those cards to SGC, they grade them, they send them back and I get them back to the people who submitted them. So this is a process I'm very familiar with. I, I was familiar with it prior to being a bulk sober as I created my own stuff for, for many, many, many years. Full disclosure.

SPEAKER 1: I've used PS A and SGC now under the same parent company of collectors. I used to use Beckett but stopped probably about five or six years ago. So right now it's just those two companies that you know, I I've submitted to, I did submit a small CGC order of marvel foil cards to get graded by them. Kind of just to test the waters and that sort of thing. All right.

SPEAKER 1: How about some grading tips? The question I get asked actually quite frequently, especially since I've started bulk subbing, which I'm 18 months into about a year and a half. Now I've done it is, you know, how do I know what to sub or how do I know this is worthy of grading John.

SPEAKER 1: And again, this is to each their own. But there, there is a a method at least to, to my madness is I'll start out with what I call a candidate stack. So usually it'll start 4050 cards high.

SPEAKER 1: These are all cards that you know, I'd like to get encapsulated. And then, so I start with that stack. I get out I have glasses, you can get them on Amazon. I think they're like 13 bucks. They're like jewelers loop glasses where the, the magnification lens comes down.

SPEAKER 1: It's got a little USA USB rechargeable light inside it as part of the frame, I turn the light on flip the magnification down. It has different lenses that comes with it of different levels of magnification. So you can pick which one you want to use.

SPEAKER 1: And I look at the card right front and back edges, corners surface and then determine, you know, obviously if it's a modern or ultramodern in my book, it's got to be worthy of a nine or 10 to su submit if it's a vintage card, then it's really, you know, is it decent enough where it's worth the price it's gonna cost to get graded.

SPEAKER 1: So you gotta keep in mind what is it gonna cost to get graded? You know, you can use a microfiber cloth to especially on a chromium card to kind of wipe off any fingerprints.

SPEAKER 1: Then I put it in a soft sleeve and then into a extra large semi rid, which is what most graded card companies require cause they cut them out of that. So they don't have to handle them as much. So, you know, if I start with a stack of 50 cards. When I actually, the first thing I do, let me, let me backtrack. The first thing I do with that first, you know, that candidate stack is I'll go through without magnification.

SPEAKER 1: And if I can see something that's glaring or blatant or, you know, not good to the naked eye, it's probably not gonna make the cut. So if there are any of those, I pull those out, And then I use the magnification microfiber cloth and that sort of thing. And then when, you know, between the, the eye, the, the normal eye test, the magnification, you know, maybe I have 20 to 25 cards that pass those two first inspections.

SPEAKER 1: And then maybe I take a, a third sort of look, maybe under higher magnification or, and then determine like, yes, I'm sending those in. So, you know, from an agri from a stack of 50 it might be between 15 and 25 that actually get sent in.

SPEAKER 1: But again, that's, you know, everyone has a different process. That's mine. But the one tip I I'll tell you is, you know, so I say, well, why are you looking at with that kind of magnification or that close? Cause that's what they're gonna do, right? So that was one of the first mistakes I made when I first started grading back in the day.

SPEAKER 1: This is double digit years ago, I would see something and say, ah they'll, they'll let that go or they won't, that won't bother them or, you know, I was, I was very lenient, with, with what I saw and gave myself a pass. They're not gonna do that.

SPEAKER 1: You, you can do that for your own cards and they're not gonna do that. And so you have to be honest. So, when I first started grading, I got a lot of eights and sometimes even lower and like current cards and like, what am I? You know, why? And it's just because I wasn't critical enough. So you don't have to be extra critical.

SPEAKER 1: But if you see something, you see something and so will they, so keep that in mind, you know, put them in those large, semi rigid, the less handling they have to do the better for both parties, you and them and, you know, it, it, it's a fun process too. I don't want to make it sound like it's ti I enjoy it.

SPEAKER 1: It's fun to see what makes the cut and there's, sometimes you, I'll get a card where it could go either way. Right. And then it's, it's almost like a coin flip and then it's really up, up to me to determine like, yeah, let's take a, let's take a crack at this now. Well, it's not something I really do. I've only ever done it one time.

SPEAKER 1: I know other people do it a lot more but keep in mind that if you get a card graded and it comes back and you don't like the grade, you know, what you can do with it, right. You can crack it out of there and take it out of there. I've only done that with one card and I'll, I'll tell, you know, full disclosure was a 1994 sp Alex Rodriguez Rookie and it got a six, a six from Beckett and I thought it was kind of a low grade.

SPEAKER 1: So I, I did crack it out of there and I sent it to SGC and I got a 6.5. So that was pretty, pretty close. These grading companies are pretty good at what they do. Are there? Mistakes are the humans for sure. But overall they do a pretty decent job. So that was the only card I've ever cracked.

SPEAKER 1: So, but some people will do it way more than that again. It's your property, right? You don't like the grade, you wanna crack it out and that's my, another tip, you know, population reports are great. They give you a general overview of how many of these cards are graded, what the grades are, what the trends are.

SPEAKER 1: But also when you're reading these pop reports, folks keep in mind, some of these are no longer in those cases, they've been cracked out, and maybe even sent to another grading company. So I don't wanna say, take with a grain of salt, but they are not the Holy Bible. If you will of, of grated cards, it's just a good general guideline, an overview that you can use.

SPEAKER 1: So keep that in mind. That being said, you know, we'll see you very soon. All right. Thank you for listening to another episode of Hobby Quick hits. Wanna give out our Social Media starting with our website, which is www dot sports Carnation podcast.com, Facebook.

SPEAKER 1: You can follow us at www.Facebook.com forward slash Sports Card Nation podcast, forward slash Twitter. We are at Sports Card, Nat T one. So it's Sports Card Nat I one Instagram at Sports Car Nation Podcast. Or you can email the show Hobby quick hits at gmail.com again. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.