Hobby Quick Hits Ep.128 Auction Market Options w/Danny Black

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Delivering that breaking copy move. Hey everybody. Episode 128 happy. Quick hits and then Different episode today. Normally, we don't always have guests on the show every once in a while. Today's a guest episode asked my friend, Danny black to record this episode with me, we just saw some auctions at Heritage kind of finalize. He had some items, he's a broker, he had some items in that auction and I just wanted to kind of do a state of the mark state of the market auction. And sort of report, you know, and some prices you know, we have obviously the man will set a new record but in many thought it would actually bring more than that. And some other items didn't bring what analysts projected and again it's all subjective, right? But wanted to bring them on and kind of talk about sort of state of the market and maybe if you have certain items, you know, anywhere from $500. All the way up where maybe is the best place to put them to get them to maximize your earning potential if that's you know that's your thing. So what we'll call this kind of state of the market auction Report with Danny, we cut a few segments out to make it happen. Kind of a quiet Newsweek anyway so I hope you enjoyed the episode. I want to thank Danny for coming on. We're going to hear a word from a Double sponsors. And then get this show started, Mojo brake, shop.com is the best place to get your sealed wax products. And breaks they not only have the best selection but the best prices, whether it's a box or a whole case, they are your guys, they ship worldwide to your doorstep. Their reputation as one of the most trusted in the hobby goes unmatched. They are the 2021 tops RIT party Champion Breakers from Sports. 

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Our feature presentation. 

All right, we don't always do interview, guests on Havoc Wicket. This week's show is an exception. We just had the Heritage auction complete well headlined by the, the 9.5 SGC mantle and you know, the market is Up For Debate. What's going on in the current market and who better to have on my good friend? Any black who had broker some items that were in that Harry? Jocks. And so we're not just going to talk about the man, or just those items, but being that he, you know, his fingers on the pulse and especially with that auction, I saw who better to bring out in the kind of do this this episode. So Danny, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome good. To be here. One exciting time for the hobby. Well, we just thought, you know, there's a crazy thing. Let's start where I know it's been played out the mantle, you know, everyone and their mother starving about it everybody, you know? No, I saw a cooking platform post about it, you know, you know, it brought 12.6, I predicted at the national 12.7. When I said that 12.7, I thought I might be even a little low and then I read some other people's opinions experts are quotes in the hobby that analysis that thought it could bring 15 16 million. So it didn't receive hit that number like I mentioned 

You know, when I brought you on, you know, you had some items in this auction. I don't know how much you want to talk about. Those are just in the market in general. But, you know, your thoughts on overall in the mantle. I mean, just everything wherever you want to go here. Yeah, I mean it's on those crazy where to begin. Let's start with the making me I do. Because again, that's the 800-pound gorilla hobby right now. First of all, let's start with all the positives. We have a public sale of a card Without the buyer's, premium the card past 10 million. So listen, let's just take a second and appreciate this is the first time A card without the buyer's premium, or I do without buyer's premium any memorabilia, any part of the Sports World cross that 10 million dollar Mark passing 58 of Maradona soccer, jersey from the hand of God called with the buyer's premium. We got the 12-6. First point I was with you in the National when you sit 12:7 so I will verify your prediction and unfortunately, by price of right rules you however would be I've got a feeling you're going to go there. Absolutely have. That's funny. Okay, that was pretty close. Every, that's because that was fantastic. And the second point is, I think, you know, I think we should that we should be able to celebrate this together. That really is a Monumental thing. However, for those of us that make a living out of this, there was a little bit of an underbelly and you kind of touched on it and let's just talk about it a lot. A lot of people and Heritage, actually, get a live broadcast to a point on YouTube. I'll leading up to the auction and during the auction, and they've spoke openly about their estimates of getting between 15 and 16 million. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think that I get out, it's good, it's good to be enthusiastic but you know, as somebody who tries to help with their clients, it's hard to figure out where things are going to end up right now and it's hard to know where and how to sell them. And I think this auction kind of showed a little bit of that. Yeah, there's another item in it. 

Optioned and I'm sure you know about it, the Babe Ruth game, use bad, that was also used by home run. It's autographed. Everyone thought it was a layup for over two million dollars if not reach the 2 million dollar level. So that's kind of what I, you know, what this episode is just talking about, you know, we're seeing bright and it's not even just auction items but we're seeing some estimates, not be reach, you know, we can even go back a little bit further, it's not ancient history, but the whole LeBron 101 logo man can go. Even beneath the provoked at more, I hardly saw anything on that, but obviously people will tell you. That was the end result was really didn't match, sort of the height we're seeing, you know, a lot of the hype. And I get these auction houses after promote their lots and what they're offering. I get it, but we're seeing a lot of these estimates not be reached. So, we went from a 

In the market where these estimates were being blown out of the water and had no problem being reached. And now, you know, if you use that as sort of the guideline, they're falling falling short of these marks. And it's crazy to think that we're talking about a new record breaker. Yet. Some people think like, it's a bad indicator that it actually fell short of those 15 16 million dollar projections, you know? It's just crazy where we are, but You know, that's where we are. You have, you had a few items that you work directly related to in this Heritage auction? I mean, I don't know how much you want to get into. I'll leave that up to you but just kind of of what I just kind of said you're even expanding on that. Yeah thank you for the opportunity because I really do want to talk about talk about this. You and I talked a couple days ago after the auction and I did have some items in there and they did come in under the estimates but 

Lift your heart and let me first acknowledge for any option house. And this is true with gold and RDA or whoever it may be or Heritage. Anybody in estimate is usually based upon cops and we do this with cards, we do it, we do it all the time, you know, on a hundred dollar cars the comp it out. And when you start to get into these larger items, you're trying to compliment, sometimes they're unique and sometimes they're hard to come. I'll be completely Fair. The items. I were selling we're extremely unique although my boyfriend kill me for the grammar on that. 

So the question is, are the cops wrong or is it a statement on the market? And that's really it out. Where the conversation goes is the coppers at the market because something's off with the numbers, don't match the paper, that is a perfect example. I mean, to me that if I had the money that that to me is a is what a treasure of an item. 

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It's a league of its own. We don't make saw anybody on what the fuck, get your man. Oh, but be like down but I mean, a Babe Ruth bad and it's too early papers back and it's a young favorite bad. In those rooms impossible. Fine, I'll go a step. Further, Frank home run, Baker's from Maryland. I'm a Baltimore guy. You know, if I have a federal money, I love that bag that's easily a two million dollar bad. It came in at 16 with the buyers bring, I mean, so you're talking about well you know, it's 10%, 20% discount and is that once again because the estimate was too high or just the market soft right now. And we keep hearing or we've been hearing, you know, for six months now the market solved but we heard that the high-end was good. The you know the options were still strong and the LeBron. Triple older man is a perfect example. In you know, you jokes about the can golden thing, but let's do the math. If people are not familiar, when you have an item in an auction house, the auction house usually makes money in two directions. They usually charge that seller a fee to sell the item and there's a 

Tires premium. I've referred that a couple times, a buyer's premium, is it Heritage? Its public was 20% and it's usually in that range and that the buyer has to pay that that's included in the price. That's not an extra fee. So the buyer coughed up, twelve point six million for the math, the seller of the mantle looks at that 10.5 number whatever was exactly and that's what the seller is basing. Their income on the item off of. So the auction house is about is making money on the seller and the buyer when you get in, An item like the logo man or the mantle. A lot of times, those numbers get negotiated because the auction house does want the item for the for the publicity for the marketing and quite frankly, you're what a cool thing to have. And if you do this for a living, you want those types of items. So I understand and I've negotiated with auction houses and there's lots of ways to make everybody happy and make it better green. But when you have a commission on an item that could be 15 million dollars or ten million dollars or even two million dollars that Mission in the percentage for the auction house is so high that what incentive do they have to necessarily Market? The rest of the catalog, the same degree and puts them in a tough position because you can have hundreds thousands of items in an option. I mean PWC, see our weekly auction. I can't go through their catalog to look for Guild, you know, I don't have the hours in the day to go through all the items and I think that's what you know. It's just, it's a challenge. So when you have a catalog in physically, I mean some of these options, it's still a Thick paper catalog and yeah, I have some, they're like phone books. Remember? Phone books, they don't use anymore, but the modern-day phone books. All connected I'm sitting on Tucson High Enough for the monitor. So, if it's true, I mean there's a ton of items so you know, it's if I ran an auction house, I would not spend my marketing money on a 500 dollar. Five thousand dollar item when my commission on that is going to be fraction. I mean literally if 

Action of my commission on the 10 million dollar, twelve million dollar item even if there was a negotiated deal. But at least the question of what do you do if you're trying to sell those types of items and that I fall kind of in that mid-range were I don't represent the Mickey Mantle seller. Well I'll be honest and upfront with everybody. The Mickey no carpets not by item in the auction but I'm in the kind of that mid-range and so I can expect an auction house to give me the marketing in the publicity, they can go and Give the love of at and LeBron. I mean that's just not realistic. At the same time, how do I best represent? My clients to sell their items, you know, public her in private or in any way there's, you know, we always say eBay, but that's not a platform for everybody. That's not a platform for every item and so it leaves leaves are tough position. I'll be honest, I hope to do better in this auction. I'll be frank about that, but, you know, was that because my standards were too high. You know, what did I fall in love with irons too much? It was I guess setting the bar too high. I don't know. Maybe the auction house. Set the bar too high, I don't know. It was my clients in the bar, so high, who knows, but the numbers we want to we can get, I think it's fair to say at this point that there needs to be an adjustment on the estimates, from both the buyers and the sellers because people are going to pay what they want. I don't think we need to artificially inflate the estimates at this. Point, the market doesn't need to be pushed. The market is pulling Of into color correction probably. And there's nothing wrong with selling a bad for 1.6 million. There's nothing wrong with selling a card for 12 point, you know, six million. So I think it's okay to not hit your estimates but it's also. Okay, not to put the estimates unreasonably high and to be fair, the printed estimates were lower than that. But I think the enthusiasm of the pandemic has still got to run away. I mean, you know, I don't think there was any sheet for that. That you can Bolton really wanted to get, you know, the money on the LeBron low demand and didn't, it didn't hit the trouble of them and just didn't hit the numbers. They want it, you know, let me say this is unverified, but I understand that there, he had a financial interest in that cart in one way, shape, or form of the other, don't take that as fact and not reporting that. I am Telling You rumors and that I've heard so it does give an incentive to Market a specific item in that auction. I don't know that he had a financial incentive and 

Every item in that catwalk. So what do you do to all the people saw in the rest of the items in the catalog? What do they do with their items and what's the best platform? And I think that's what you want to talk about it and I don't know that I have an easy answer, but I can tell you where where the market is right now and that's where I'm finding it. Yeah. Do you think Danny that the auctions are, you know, these auction houses? They're just having too many Lots. These auctions that they almost or tissue almost run them as they two separate auctions that way. If You're not in, you know, that upper at your line looking for that that six-figure or seven-figure card or a figure card in this case, like you can avoid that because I hate less. I'm not, I don't have that kind of money and then he'll most have like two separate auction. Maybe, you know, whatever you want to call it. The upper echelon your regular, you know, from your premium your regular auction will however, you want to differentiate it. 

What do you think? Even, I know some people may not like this? Do you think it's sorta on the auction house to say? Hey we're really, you know, there's a great items but we're not really looking for a bunch of five hundred or thousand dollar items. Where were, you know what I mean? There's there's buyers for those but we're not, you know, we're not the place for that, your eBay's, your personal vaults, you know, all the online selling platforms list. Stat stuff that are great items. We're not putting the items itself. Now, we're just we don't want 1,000 laps. We're trying to make this a 300 lat auction rather than 1000 lot auction in that won't won't get into that top three hundred. And at this particular time, I mean, whatever, what are the best options there? Yeah, it's a hard decision and let me shed a little light on my personal situation. When you have a significant item or are you 

Item one of the questions that the authorship auction house, in the client will discuss is actually, which option to put the item in. There are most of the auction houses, however, have a series of options throughout the year. And if you're not if you didn't know that, take that into consideration there's probably try to correct me if I'm wrong, six to ten major sports auction houses and most of those have multiple options a year so do them, you know the math. I mean you're in education so that comes out to the ghetto would like 50 auctions a year of sports memorabilia. Yeah and if you take 50 auctions a year you know conservatively at 500 items and auction where I was at 25,000 items that are being auctioned off your than on probably very very low on that number. It is hard. Like you said it's a phone book went on some of these options and it's hard to get through everything that's hard for everything to get through, to the public, I felt in my clients situation that the Platinum option was so important, so significant that it was best for my 

Clients eyes to be in that auction with that exposure. You know, maybe I was wrong or you know, like you said, is it the type of thing, where the mantle just becomes kind of its own night. You know, there's only so many people in the world that are even bidding on that. So, of all the eyeballs are were following it. I mean, how many guys were really, you know, how many people were in that we're talking to him for? So are you really marketing to six people in the world? And that becomes the question is, we have an entire off Option for six people. Bouldin have an entire option for six people. And that's a legitimate fair question when you talk about to auctions or separating them because the rest of the auction doesn't get the attention that those six people got. I love the idea of some sort of modified system. I think that restricting the items is a good idea, but sometimes, and I'll be fairly auction houses and, you know, my client had one main out of, and there were several other items that were with it, he wanted everything to be in the auction. On the auction house is in a tough position because they, you know, we're going to be frank most likely agree to that. So it adds some lower end items to the auction that now, they have on their catalog. So they're in, there are two sides to that coin but there are a lot of items that that people just can't get to. And you know, you're a big sports fan. I'm you know, big sports fan. We could go through these catalogs for days and probably get our eyes cross 

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The dates of the auction, you have to have in your first bid that there's extended bidding and what time and there's a strategy to do what you did and when you don't that, I mean, get out. If it's or overwhelm he can get, config can get confusing, even to someone who's experienced. So I'm not going to help make this a short version of the story when I was trying to get by 48 Leaf. Jackie, I went on to these auctions at these auction house and there was a few I didn't wind up with But I had been the leader and then extended bidding happen and so for the quick, You Know, lesson about extended bidding, it basically the auction ends but anyone that placed a bid within that time, they extend the auction where only those people can up the current bid in the auction doesn't close. And every auction house might have their own set of rules. With the general rule is the auctions final when know, No, there's no higher bid after 30 minutes and so when the auction closed on one of these checky so that I was been, I was leading, I looked at him like okay and I realized there was extended bidding someone outbid me within that first 30 minutes. I came over the top of him again and then someone else went oh and then over the top of me for a second time and then it was out of 

I know where I had budgeted for that particular card and so I didn't get it that route but and so you know, there's so many different things, you know, going back to this specific Heritage auction, Danny, you know that we talked about that Ruth's bat, that's an incredible piece of History. Incredible piece of memorabilia but no one really talked about it during the auction itself because why the man over the 9.5 mess? She seemed a little overshadowed, literally, everything in the auction. Do you think? I mean, is this even viable? Can you do like a one lot auction for an incredible piece like the man where, you know, can you do almost like a separate option or how? I mean, how do you, how do you do that? I mean, in the sense, I mean, I was with the same company. It's still going to be the kind of what everyone's looking at. I mean, it's such a great question. It's really hard because 

As content creators who, especially people with the national. I think the content creators would hold some responsibility because content creators, how many people covered the Ruth's bat over the mantle, everybody rush to cover the mantle card so that was a lot of free press, That's not on Heritage auctions. So there was the other content creators didn't cover a lot of other items in the auction. So, you know, I want to, I want to be fair about that and I'll give a shout out to Ryan, Nolan who I saw going around covering a lot of the The Heritage auction and he does a great job. But you know Heritage didn't hide from the fact that the Mickey Mantle was the All-Star or you know of the auction and it should be what a fantastic car died. Yeah. I don't want to knock the car. This is not about knocking the item itself but it's about the item itself. Being so disproportionately, cool and pricey compared to everything else and it doesn't steal the spotlight. I think it's what you're asking and it does. And I think if there's maybe a should've just been in sunlight, and then the auction was two nights. Anyway, you know, you could have made me 

Making man, all the grand finale on the second night and I would probably go Prime Time with that, you know. For the money people are spending like you said it's covered on the Food Channel or the cooking show or whatever you get a solid on. You know, it was turned into Primetime TV little, you know, let's have people, you know, washes that's a great that's great thing to watch because there's only five or six people bidding on it but the rest of the auction, maybe should get out. Be its own thing. But I've got a question for you as somebody who's been online. What can you imagine if you were tracking more than the Jackie? At the same time, could you keep up with multiple items? This it stuff that will listen. When I was on the hunt for that card, I was tracking multiple Jackie's, and it's difficult. And then, you know, you got to be careful, right? What if I went to? I only really want one. I can only afford one. What if I just somehow and hedging my bets? If the chips fall, right or wrong? Depending how you look at it, I wouldn't both of these options out of seeing on been on six. What if I'm the high bidder into? I really only 

One of these. Now I know you can buy it and then just 

Lifted and try this out, but you still gotta pay for it upfront. You know, they don't let you realistic without paying for it first. So those thoughts are in my mind, right? Especially when you're hunting, for one specific type of card, right? That's the those things are like you almost got to say, which one do I ra gistic? Ali have a better chance at winning and really put your eggs in that basket, but you don't doesn't just cause you do. That doesn't mean you're going to win that out, right? And I think that's exactly the challenge of these be of auction catalogs, like you mentioned, you know, so I don't know what was seen. You know, this is the other thing I wanted to touch on tonight to Danny, we're seeing a lot of these private sale, set records ready. How many times we get a news, release a hobby news release, you know, Hank, Aaron rookie new record for the Hank, Aaron rookie, you know, PB P, WC C, private sale, Vault, golden has privacy mode, 

Quality auction houses themselves. Have Private Sales like, as a seller and a buyer mean, do you think this as may be a better option for one of the other? Both let me. What, what's your, what's your view on Private Sales versus often? Do you have? There's always going to be commission's. Don't know, let anyone fool you, but the commission's may be different. You're not, you're not necessarily bidding against a bunch of people. You're just negotiating. In a price one-on-one with the buyer and the seller type of deal. I mean, what are your thoughts on with these Private Sales versus you know auctions? I actually think it's a great opportunity for somebody to create a niche in the market. It is for the Private Sales of a lot of these items that are not making an hour. Babe Ruth, I had I thought of, like I said, or did amazing item and in the auction that didn't do as well, you know, if I had maybe, you know, some, you know, the 

In this, for this item, we're not in Baltimore and not, not in my sphere is one of the reasons I work with an auction house. If I had somebody that could have connected me with private buyers, for the first of these types of items, I would have absolutely been interested. You don't need everything to be public, and then I'll tell you in this situation, it was not quite there. Everything was probably going on some of the stuff that happened behind the scenes and so, a lot of times, the private buyer will give you not only the anonymity, but it might give you, hey, you know, I know so and so Lex Toronto Blue Jays, you know, item. So you know, you're selling this Toronto Blue Jays World Series, right? Let me, let me call Joe and Toronto and I know he might be interested. Well, that's a fantastic skill and network, but it's multi sport across the country, and that's hard. Which is why most people go to an auction for the for the exposure and that's why eBay get outta 300-pound gorilla because nobody gets more eyeballs. So, I love the idea of a private sale, but it's always a matter of connections. So that's why I like, 

Said it's going to come down to the major players. Anyway, you're still dealing with the PWC. See, you're still dealing a lot of times with the same auction houses in the private sales. And so then they're back to their same connection to buyers and a lot of people may not know this, but the amount of real big players when you start getting over a couple of million dollars shrinks very fast. It's options. And so I think that there's a little misnomer out there that we're talking about tons of people. You're not when you get into that range. Now, when you drop into the twenty thousand dollar range for the 10,000, Our range, which is a lot of money for me. And, you know, I'm not buying that stuff every week we're at all. But for a lot of people that's a very affordable price and it's significantly more. When I say significantly more, we're talking, maybe a couple dozen over, you know, for items in the Babe Ruth range and we could be called talking about tens of thousands, for a ten thousand dollar item. So it's a huge difference. So a private sale to me, you know, is great on a high-end item but it's also great. If you've got a specific initiative, 

Civic fire. So you don't get lost in the ocean with the other fish and that's the advantage. Yeah. Great points and and you're right, you know, people do, we hear all these record-setting cards? We, I think people probably don't realize. It's only a handful of people that are are vying for that card. But all you need is two people, right? The tried the price up at the end of the day and that's what sometimes it boils down to, you know. No, you know, as we're coming down the stretch here, you know, we you know we kind of started with the man. I'll let you know it brought in brought the 12.6 went to buyer's. Premium 9.5 SGC. People tend to forget there's three PSA tens in existence. So let's pretend right. Your you own one of those Danny black. You have a PSA. 1052 tops, man. Oh, you saw what the 9.5 just went. 

Or do you? But you also see. Going on and real-world macroeconomics you know, things aren't great. In those terms, you have the PS, a 10-man. Oh do you sell now of piggybacking off? What the 9.5 SGC sold for or do you say, you know what, I got the card, it's it's already paid for. I paid a lot less than what it's eventually going to sell for. I'll just wait two things in the world sort of right in and straighten up and get better. 

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And, Be some of those prices start to trickle back up. And then all of a sudden, you'll see this listed for auction. I mean, how do you play that? If you own that the one of those 3 PS, a 10-man. Well, first of all, if I had one of those PS, a 10-man levels, I am running around naked and showing everybody that I have the card, you know, I think it's the reality of it. Is, if you own one of those, you probably don't need to sell them. And let's be frank. Once again we're talking about a very small group of people. I mean, you and I can We named the owners of the PSE thin mint that's house. 12 of it is and we know who have and the 9.5 you and I could do an hour on the background. That's got a history and a whole other story that gives a different provenance that the tens. So that would create a whole other discussion and we you and I could do four hours or just comparing those two. But from a macro standpoint, I think it's good to let it breathe a little bit II. Don't know the piggyback and right away right now today, does you any 

I think, whatever dollar you can get today, you can get in six months you can get in here. I don't think that cards ever lost anybody month. I think it's actually a fact, so, it's something to unless you need to sell. There's no reason to the piggy back on it now is the short answer. Yeah, I agree with Jim. If I own one, like you said, if I owned one, I probably, you know, own a lot of other things that I don't necessarily need to sell that card. If I was going to sell that card, would probably wait a little B, two things, sort of, get a little better market-wise and then all of a sudden, hey look what them putting up for sale and again at you know we saw what happened with the 9.5, you know. Sure as heck what would happen if a PSA 10 reached the market for availability? It's been, you know, most people would are trying to say would it could bring 50 million bucks. Again, take that with a grain of salt, right? Analyst predictions, we just did you know? 

We just spent some time on that. It'll be a problem with sirtuin estimates on me now. Unfortunately unfortunately it be a it's going to remain a hypothetical question rather than a real one for us. But it's fun. It's fun to do you know, bad that around a little bit and throw that out there and get if anybody wants to see how our answers compare. And if anybody wants to send us money, you can reach us through our websites for the Mickey Mantle fund. Where 

Someone who you know was involved directly in that auction by dis is what you do as well as a broker. And, you know, you gotta your eyes. I always say your finger on the pulse, especially when it came to this topic and wanted to tackle it, and I said well better. 

Bring-bring and so glad you made some time. And we don't always have guests on this particular show, but I made an exception today, so thank you. Well, I think this is probably the shortest conversation you. And I have ever had it is that speaking a record-breaker to say hello. So who cares about the man on record? It's the shortest, any black John Newman conversation ever recorded. So Only because you're the best. My friend. I am honored that you had me on you know, the for the quick hit and always a pleasure to talk sports and hobby with you. Well thanks man, I'm sure we'll do it again. So yeah, then I'm going to get just I'll plug myself. If you're looking for me Sports Bowl after Sports be alt.com because I got yelled at. I think the last time I talked to you, I didn't tell anybody who I was or how to find me. So my wife yelled at me, sportsball to.com. Now, 

Y'all great stuff as always from Danny. All right, thanks Dan. Thank you very much. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's hobby quick hits. Hope you hope. You know, you like that everyone wants. While we may have a guest on this show and happens, sometimes with sports car Nation, we get, you know, a two-month backlog with with scheduled guests and you know, want to do something quicker, including the interview was short. Shorter interview. So Maybe we'll everyone's who I want to overdo it but every once in a while I'll have someone on Happy quick hits much like today. You know the hobby like we said is is is doing you know fairly well the Hobbies not dead a lot of people writing obituaries it just the market based on a lot of things, right? What's going on in real time? It's not you know what? We kind of got Sport with year year and a half. For go, right? I think we got a sport myself included. I sold a lot of stuff at Peak, right? And you know, everything can't stay that way for. So I hope again. I hope you enjoyed the episode next week on this very program. No gasps. But we're going to talk about a gentleman, you know, piggybacking off that man. Oh and the, you know, Providence of it being 

From the MR. Met Alan Rosen, find and purchase. We're going to do one of our hobby histories. Last time I did one with J, Warren Bowman and this one's going to be obviously Alan Rosen, Mr. Met from New Jersey passed away in 2017, but we're going to, you know, learn about them even though, you know, he only died. Five years ago, much of what he he, you know, his impact was felt mostly in the 80s, some of the 90s, but a lot of maybe the younger set don't know as much about them and you know, sort of a polarizing dude, kind of a love-hate kind of guy. Most you know, beer either, love them or hate them and nowhere in between so another hobby history next week, Alan Rosen, Mr. Met, we're going to do, we did that? 

Bowman one about two months ago, so every so often, you know, every 6-8 weeks, we'll do another hobby history, where we learn about someone, that's no longer with us, and their impact and what they re brought in met to the Hobby. So, with that being said, we'll see you next week for the instrument episode, as always, check us out our Friday shows or its coordination with this. We suggest is going to be like, oh, from YouTube, so have a great day. Have a great week, stay well, be safe. We'll see you soon.