Feb. 21, 2025
"Hobby Hustle" Director Michael Dault Returns E324
"Hobby Hustle" Director Michael Dault returns to discuss the film, the process and the hobby!
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Transcript
sport car Nation the hobby is the people Weekly News and
interviews It's Your Number One Source sports card Nation the hobby is the
Nation what is up everybody Welcome to episode 324 of sports card Nation the
conclusion of our interview with Michael Dal the director of hobby hustle uh
great movie uh we're going to talk more about uh the film in the process but
we're going to talk hobby uh as well so I'm going to keep the intro short and sweet uh we're going to take a quick
commercial break and we'll be back with more from Michael do director of hobby
hustle hey everybody I want to take a quick minute to tell you about a product I use every morning it's a
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penny.com the penny sever top quality supplies fair prices and now for the
conclusion of our conversation with Michael do and his his new hobby film
hobby hustle uh check the movie out uh a good Crux of this part portion of the
conversation is talking about Cliff panich panzic uh who was the
forger uh uh and uh along with friends and and got his mother involved so uh
very interesting storyline uh we're going to kind of Deep dive uh here and
some other things uh as well enjoy even with eBay you know as much as I I I
use eBay and yeah I wanted to talk to them about you know during watching
operation you know during operation stolen base which was in the documentary they kept all those fees that you know
off all those fraudulent transactions of you know the the autographs that were forged and everything they still never
gave back those fees and I wanted to ask about it I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it I just I just didn't want eBay
to be like oh did nothing wrong hear no evil see no evil but at the same time it's like well you still kept those fees
and I wanted to ask and when I approached them I I wanted to and they they were like no we're not going to
talk it's like okay well you know so um that's why I brought sports card radio
in on that because they're kind of very polarizing and I knew they'd be polarizing and they talk about a lot of
bad things that are in the hobby but I also wanted people to understand their perspective of why they do because as I
shot this documentary I've uncover covered I kept uncovering more and more and it was just unbelievable so they
kind of it's kind of cool that they're kind of on top of it right and and they agreed with me I mean as much as PSA and
JSA are needed company I do think there needs to be something that governs them now that's just my opinion because they
set the market they set they set the price points they set there's only going to be so many mint gem 10s of a certain
LeBron or or you know whatever and and I think there needs to be somebody to kind
of put them inck too but you know that's just maybe a long bigger talk for for another day for sure yeah no I I'll give
you my short I I kind of agree with that and then with the the financial aspect
of of the billions of dollars that are exchang right uh lesser stuff is is
regulated if you will so you know I know people don't you know me me included
right we want sort of less cover a lot of times yes and that regulation can be
a loaded word you know some people like and other people despise but you know I
I guess I'll say this if if it could be done the right way and it works that I would I would support that right because
even sometimes with regulation that can that can backfire too so as long as it's
there's a plan that's that does more good than than bad uh you know if you
love The Hobby right you want more good than bad so I would I would support that but right now as as you all know and and
as as the film kind of it's sort of like not sort of it is really the ww west
while you do have some sheriffs uh trying to do the right thing um again
without regulation and in a body that sort of oversees that um uh it is
there's a wild wild west aspect to uh and and you you did that with you know
highlighting the the the operation stolen base and and Cliff pan I think I'm saying his name right
paner yeah yeah and I I appreciate you know you mention like you had the the
both sides of that coin right you had the the prosecution side you had the
defendant side um you know he was convict you know he pled guilty and and
served time and and uh you know uh came up but uh that's that that's important
to talk about and and you touched more touched on that and you touched on even
some thefts and burglaries and and alteration and you know you really
that's why I said you covered a lot of of the stuff that we need to talk about if we're going to really tell the true
story of of where the hobby is where it was maybe even where it's going right
and um you know I knew about that case and I knew about some of the players but
you you really opened it up to like fill in a lot of the blanks that even people
followed that case or that story yeah you like you really deep dived it so
obviously I I learned a lot and didn't realize how lucrative of a business and
then how many tentacles and people actually became involved you know a lot of times you hear with this stuff it's
just a couple people this thing kind of grew and got big and and you know
whether you like it or not I I don't like it you know obviously was a
criminal but he he was very good what he did like Illustrated like he's literally
doing people's autograph on like a a whiteboard to to a te like you know
you're just saying hey do this and he's just muscle met like he doesn't have to think about it and just you know it's
it's criminal but there there's a part of me watching that Mike I kind of feel guilty saying this yeah yeah that's I
think you know what I'm about that's that's incredible like it's bad but it's incredible
I mean like at the same time yeah I wish you know I wish that stuff didn't happen
but to be that kind you know bad craft but to be a wizard of your craft even on
the bad side yeah there's a small part of me that said he did his homework you know and you know while I'm not admiring
it you know I admire this the dedic I mared the dedication although it falls
on the wrong side of the law right uh and I think we all you know we all have
that little sight of us like Billy the Kid right not a good guy but you know
there's a part of us that's sort of like the little Rebel in all of us right that's man like that's pretty funny or
that's interesting to say to say the least you know he he definitely came to me uh you know obviously I saw him on
film you you had a lot of conversation with him that probably didn't make in in the film he came off kind of smug a
little bit cocky but maybe that comes from just for as long as he got away with it how big it got you know kind of
your thoughts on on that part of the film and and and again you did a great job uh you know I like that you included
again the prosecuting side to it and the law enforcement side to because there's two sides of every story right and like
you said as a journalist you didn't want it to be uh one-sided some of your
thoughts in to part of the film yeah I mean with Cliff Cliff is a hard person
to like um not just in the film but in person and it's kind of I look at his
story of kind of Shakespearean right I mean he has this he's trying so hard to
be something which in the film he's trying to be a pro baseball player you thought he thought that's where where he
was going to end up and he wanted to live that lifestyle of of a pro baseball player of a pro athlete but then he
found out he's actually even better at something else that's a more dubious honor or not even an honor just a
dubious craft which he goes on that side and then it totally brings him into the underbelly the CD underbelly of the
hobby so which he has this big Fall From Grace and I wanted when I I knew I
wanted because when I talked to him so it was really hard to get a hold of him
at first um prisons have this system called JPay where you can video chat or
email a convict or a uh an inmate and I used that and then I found his mom he
was trying to Cliff was trying to run some businesses outside of prison through his mom Rose panzic and legit
businesses like I think apparel and just like little side hustles that were I don't think they were really going
anywhere but I found an email on there I reached out to her her and I swapped some emails in uh a phone numbers and
then we started talking and then Cliff started responding to the JP emails I was giving him and I came cross Cliff is
being very humble and I thought this guy needs a Redemption story this is his Redemption I want to film the Redemption
story I will say and I'm not trying to be mean but the cliff I met in prison
you know we went to prison we talked to him he came across just he was different he seemed to be humbled he seemed to be
very apologetic the cliff I met in prison was completely different of the cliff that we filmed when he got
released I mean you you saw a guy that instantly wants to be famous he wants to you know when he got got released from
prison he wanted to be famous he wanted um there was just a different air to him and that's not to say he's a bad guy
because I don't think he's a bad guy but I really I got at odds with where I
wanted the documentary to end because like I said he's a hard person to like and I wanted to leave the Redemption
story up to the audience do they think he was redeemed and do they because I do show high points and low points and
Cliff's motivations like he's very mad at the law He's very mad at the the legal system that brought him down they
thought they he there was there was some shenanigans on their part he wants that he wanted the documentary to reflect
that and I told him from the beginning I said Cliff I want to show the crime you did and I want to show both sides of it
but the law stuff we can mention it but I don't want to stick with the law side of it or I mean the how they brought you
down and how you think they done them because it's very cloudy and it's very everything he said I had proof from
their end and it was just really hard and and and and I knew that's where he wanted to go but I told him from the
beginning that's not where we're going with this we're not going to about your case we're going to the crime so Cliff
says this really Cliff he was apologetic in prison and then outside of prison he was never apologetic he as you see in
the film I I want to give it away but there was yes I did the crime but and there's a lot of butts right yeah and he
says this quote in the documentary that is kind of Haunting to me as a collector and I and I I want to know if if if you
caught this quote he says let them be oblivious he was talking about kids collecting and about if kids do if they
were collecting something fake how they would feel or should we tell them and he said let them be oblivious to to this
day that still kind of sticks with me and I have my own thoughts on that but like what are your thoughts on that like
when he when he has that comment like you know if if kids were if kids knew what was going on they wouldn't want to
collect and there's so much money involved and he says it's just easier just to let them be Oblivion and he thinks that's the way it should be what
did you catch that yeah I did it's funny you mention that quote I I I did catch it uh Micha I didn't like it right I
think yeah um I I think it shows there's still know I'm not saying he's gonna do
another fory ring but I think it still shows sort of a a disingenuous side of
him like yeah it almost like he didn't say that I I'll ask you for I almost
felt like he wasn't remorseful I it's the old cliche right I'm I'm
remorseful that I got caught not that I did it yes and and I think that line
sort of for me in my opinion sort of cements my thought about and you know I
didn't realize this until talking to here today that sort of oh you know again that you know he was a little more
Brazen like with the the stuff you shot once he was released but that you know I
I thought while watching it in real time I thought well he's he's Free's he's you
know he's enthusi he's glad to see the light of day his mom I'm like maybe
that's what just kind of coming through but they're talking to you who who had multiple hours of conversation and you
say hey it was really a different like these were two different dudes there's prison uh cliff and then out of prison
Cliff that sort of you know I was wondering about that like is that it's it's hard to tell from two hour two hour
plus and and obviously that the whole movie wasn't about you know operation
Bas but it's it you know like maybe I'm being too harsh like you know what I mean like me he's just he's out it's
confident like trying to change his life so it's hard to like judge you know plus see really I try not to judge if I if I
don't have to the if I can and so I'm like I don't want to be a jerk about
this but in kind of hearing you say n this you know in my dealings with him
it's it's kind of two different things you know I thought to myself at different points and watching him speak
and and the others like like I I thought is this someone who could like go back
there again and and do it again or maybe even something different but along the same lines and just try to be more
careful and not get caught and I couldn't like say to myself you know the little voice in my own head I couldn't
with confidence say like no I think he learned his lesson yeah know future
future issues and I know that sounds terrible to say and you like to give people the benefit of the doubt or I try
do but I didn't get that but you know because like you said there were a lot of butts right rather than just say hey
man I made a bad mistake like I'm I'm not as bad as the things I did but I did
them and but I learned and I'm going to be a better
this and a better that I didn't get a lot of that like you said there was a lot of sort of add-ons to like yeah I I
messed up but or this was you know or a little bit of justification and that's
that's where I said like it's almost like the door's still open like hey if I just am I smarter next time I can do
this again I didn't say that obviously but it was just to me me reading between
the lines I I got a little bit of that I I remember saying I hope I'm wrong I hope that's yeah he doesn't you know his
his biggest downfall was the people he associated with because one two things I learned about Cliff while filming this
he's incredibly smart like very very smart and two he loves his mom more than
anything like he Lo he'll do anything for that lady she was a very nice lady
um but her but he how do I say this he always said she had nothing to do with
it or but then you start seeing in the documentary and the interviews she had a little bit more to do with it than she
said she did he said did I have everything that the detectives gave me I have tons of um pages of the
interrogations uh you know of the questions and everything the depositions and um her his mom wasn't as innocent as
he's making her out to be and I get he's trying to defend his mom and I I think that you just I don't know and with
Cliff it's interesting because now he's in this I want to be famous thing with
with social media and now he's kind of going back to gambling and gambling is kind of what
started him on the path of going the wrong way so I hope I really hope he can
turn it around because there are pockets of heart that you see there was pockets of heart when I interviewed him when I
talked to his coach his mom anybody who knew him his former associate there's
pockets of heart but everybody who spoke well of him also had something negative to say about him too so it seems like
you get both good and bad of cliff and it's just I don't know I think he needs to write his he's going to have to write
his own story or finish and it's how I I was about to say that Michael like
you talked about the Redemption side of this particular segment yeah he's gonna really determine that right by what he
does in the future you know but you did a again you did a great job with the family aspect right his dad passing away
and him not really being there in the same you know know way and yeah you know
his dad being an honorable guy served his country right and then the sons the
son sort of hate to say it like this but sort of dishonoring his father's Legacy
by by his actions but here his mom's still around and regardless of how big
of a role she played in in the the scheme she was involved more than like
he wanted to to be known um but you know you still respect a son's love for mom
and like you said I get I get sort of why he sort of tried to Shield her from from blame yeah um and now he's he's he
served his time he's out right he gets to spend you know time with his mom but
she's not you know super young obviously so you know there is that Redemptive
quality that uh you know you sort of get a second chance and you just hope you
know that's the takeaway I took is like you hope he doesn't blow like the the second chance right and yeah that's
that's where he writes his own kind of of History he um there was stuff I mean
like I said when I cut out a lot of stuff to just kind of compact this in there's stuff I didn't even show in the
documentary about Cliff that yeah you know him and I we've had it out you know through the process and it was kind of
like a you know head-to-head on a lot of different stuff and um because he wants his story to be told right but on the
flip side of it you know when you tell him the truth he doesn't want to hear the truth and he wants you to side with
him blah blah blah there's stuff I cut out I mean from Mob connections to stuff
his mom has done and I want I you know there's so much I cut out um because I
wanted to show the story as operation stolen base I didn't want all these side stuff because then you're getting into
more of like right John you're getting into that series you're getting into like series kind of feel and I knew I couldn't do that um and I wanted to keep
everything packed into everybody's mind on operation stolen base I didn't want to go off on these
little side tangents you know of of the uh of their story so but there was a lot I cut out of Cliff story that I mean
just stuff that holy crap man holy crap yeah yeah let me ask you this I don't
know if you can answer it I'll ask if you can't sure do you know has has he seen the film himself has yeah so he's
seen he's seen an early cut of his story I didn't show the whole film and you
know he liked it at first he really liked it and then he got mad once his
mom seen it because his mom didn't like the way she was depicted and I said well I I'm telling the story I also you know
because even when the the detective and you know FBI and everybody saying okay
she was a part of it I also have her saying she didn't know anything about it so I'm not really pointing fingers like
you did this I'm having two people say one person say what they did and and another person say they did he got he
gets mad because and he said this from the beginning he doesn't he's he always said it's time for him to tell his story
and he doesn't want the law to have their side of the story because they're always telling their side of the story
but I said Cliff I can't do that because I can't just have it one way because then it's not true and he agreed I mean
we have the agreements and everything in place and but he was always fighting that aspect of it which led to a lot of
heated stuff between him and I um so he ended up going to try to sell his story
elsewhere because he's out of prison at this point so he wanted to sell his story now mind you this is a little more
inside baseball when I contacted him in prison nobody was talking to Cliff Cliff yeah I don't think Cliff had any friends
I think it was just he was focused on getting out and taking care of his mom as soon as he got out and that was it
and as soon as he got out he was like oh wow look at all these people making money on social media Tik Tock
everything I he wants to do the same thing so he was shopping his story around and I didn't even know about it I
was actually trying to finish his story up I remember I was in Columbus and I was trying to finish his
story up and I just got done filming his uh the interview with his attorney Percy Squire and there's a lot that went down
in Columbus just I remember my dog got stolen out of my car it was this whole thing I won't go into it but so when I
found out I get this call from a producer um and the producer says hey
are you filming are you filming Cliff's story you know and in so many words and I said yeah why and he goes oh because
we paid Cliff for the rights to his story I'm like wait what like what's going on right now I said I've I've been
with Cliff since 2019 I mean he already signed good man so Cliff was shopping the story around anywhere he could
because the thing is he he was like oh I gave you the sweetheart deal you know when when I was in prison and didn't
have you know a voice and I'm like well that's not fair you agreed to it this is you know and then he found out I
wasn't telling the story the way he wanted to tell it so that's when we started butting heads more and this was
after his his stuff was all done being filmed yeah but he loved the initial cut John he loved it and he gave me props
and he loved the way it ended and then once his mom viewed it she got sad because he didn't like the way she was
depicted and then he blew up on me and then that's kind of where we're at right now where he was just I don't know I
think he shot some of that documentary I don't know what's going on with other documentary but I told him I said well I
told Cliff two things I said to tell your story you need to tell both sides of it so I don't know how this other
producer is gonna do it without you getting and two I said you hate that I
call you the Mastermind of operation stolen base but on social media he's flaunting him as Mastermind beh so I
said I said Cliff I'm making this documentary you signed the paperwork where I'm going through with it and I
did and I said this is just how it's going to happen I mean I yeah this is just how it's going to happen and so
after that we haven't talked in for months since then but um yeah he he like I said liked it at first and then once
his mom seen it didn't like it well I think you did it the right way right you you gotta show uh both sides if you
would have did it where it was just him and his mom right yeah while there'd be some elements of Truth in there for sure
yeah it wouldn't be 100% of that and and people would pick that apart you know
what I mean like oh man you just you know I think you know and here's the thing I'm not saying you know Mom is the
Antichrist here but like you know what the evidence was presented you know what evidence they have to yeah you know if I
know that I'm probably not going to be talking to you saying I had no clue what was going on or you know when there's
stuff that's in dockets and in files that show the opposite of that right I
might say no comment or you know my role was very very small on the grand schema
of all this but to to just blatantly say I wasn't involved when there's evidence
you know that's on them like like you didn't do you know what I mean like you can say they can say whatever they want
right but they it's not they they know what was presented that's exactly you
know whether it was presented in court or in the files that they they they're aware of that led to you know pleading
yeah and that stuff's it's not sealed like it's it's going to come out if yeah
yeah so like you can take this stance like I don't know what you're talking about like that's not you know but the
someone else is saying hey here's what we know here's what we observe here's what we surveilled and here's you know
talking to you know people involved they had these interactions with so and so on
these dates and so like it's the proofs in the pudding as the old uh cliche goes
and so I think it would have been I I think I would have respected it more if she had said like I don't want to talk
about you know you know I love my son I did you know for the love of my son like
even if she didn't go into detail but to like not really say hey I don't know what what was going on and when that's
sort of disingenuous I would have probably respected her more if she just said like I was the really small figure
on this chess board but and it's just because I love my son you know and leave it at that but like you know it just
reminds me of of the Raphael Pomo you know testifying Congress and and
pointing like you know I did not do and all the everyone else saying like I
injected him I you know so it it had that element to it I think I would have I would have
rather and not that she's doing it for me but I would have rather her say like yeah I I don't want to talk talk about
that let's you know I'll talk about cliff and what happened there or you know that sort of stuff but when you
category deny something and then evidence sort of shows the not the case
then I think it looks worse than if you just say no comment or you know even if
you downplay your role and just say hey I was really a a very very you know I
was a Pawn on this chess board you know I wasn't The Rook or the bishop you know I I'd respect that even more like she
not she's not claiming 100% innocent she just doesn't want to dive deep dive in
details of that yeah and it's and she's a very nice lady but like I said I told both sides and and that's just yeah
that's just where it ended I I told both sides you know at the end of the day if if he wants to tell a different story go
ahead with that other documentary man but um I like I said I don't even know the status of that one and I remember
even talking to the producer who was behind the documentary and I said and him and I had a couple conversations
because we thought we were both being had at this time and uh and he he had a lot of things to say about you know
Cliff too and he's just like yeah this guy's not remorseful there's and I said well good luck if you're filming that because you know I mean it's just his
truth is going to be shown on camera if and he can't run from it and I think to this day until he fully accepts what he
did fully I don't think he'll ever find peace you know and that's just my thoughts on him on that you are
listening to the sports card Nation Podcast we'll be right back after this
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we are back you know one last question pertaining this I don't want you know I
was a little surprised that he was like he seemed to me I'll let you answer this
you you were there he seemed a little too enthusiastic about you know when he
was showing you examples of how he could sign different athlet uh you know so
forg their their signatures under the board he seemed sort of a little too proud for me like I you know on one hand
I just said earlier in our conversation like there was a part of me that sort of was like wow he kind of mastered a a
craft even in it in even though it's illegal like he did but he to me he seemed a little too eager to like hey
watch this kind of thing hold my beer watch you know did did that surprise you
or or not really because you had already like sort of you know heard previous conversation it didn't surprise me just
because at that time when he was you're talking about when he was signing on the Whiteboard at the end yeah yeah so when
he was doing that one he was basically following my instruction I wanted um he
wanted to because at first I said hey can you sign some stuff on like a notebook or a paper and he goes yeah I
I'm not doing that because he goes I'm I just got out of prison if they know I was signing fake stuff yeah that could
easily be taken he goes I I'm like no that's true man that's true he he came up with the idea of the Whiteboard I
said that's a great idea that's a great idea um and I think he was doing it at the end off the direction of me and the
guy and TJ Penton who was doing the cinematography on that one yeah so I think he he was kind of focused on that
and he every time we talked about the signatures you could tell it was how do I the best way I can describe it John is
talking to Old World War II or Vietnam Vets where they're proud of their
country they're proud of their service and they'll talk about it with kind of like remembering some days but then
there's stuff they don't want to remember you know what I mean so they're kind of very like closed off when they're talking about it and that's kind
of how it came across with Cliff because that led to bigger conversation so I think he knew he was good and I think he
knew he knew like okay this could go into more but um but yeah that stuff at
the end was totally just off Direction and if it was him like that like oh yeah I know what I'm doing I mean I'm sure
there was some sense of like I'm really good at this but at the same time yeah at the same time I don't I didn't it
wasn't that surprising because at that point in filming him he was already like look at me I want to he was wanting us
to take pictures in front of cars that weren't his and it was just weird he was just like I said the cliff in prison was
different than the cliff out of prison but I think it to him he was about let's I I want to start my new brand and and
things like that so he had this air about him when doing all that so yeah that that did come out that did come out
but uh you know you you obviously saw a lot more uh you know in person than we
get to see in our living room so I'm listen yeah yeah I think I speak for you
here too you correct me if I'm right like I'm rooting for I'm rooting for him like not to go down the wrong path right
as a human being like he's he may not be my favorite person he did he served in
prison it's not like he got off scottf free y now I just hope you know for the sake of even his own mom and himself
right uh that he travels the the right Road and stays on the right path and you
know whether that's in app Peril like you said or whatever long as it's above board and it's uh you know clean money
as as they say like I'm I'm not rooting against the guy as as for you know I think it's a bad place to be as a human
to root against another you know even even bad ones like he again he he didn't
get off scott free um he's out like now if he does the right thing like you know
he didn't murder anyone either too let's you know uh while he did some really bad and unscrupulous stuff that cost people
you know thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars um he didn't kill anyone either so you got to keep it in
that sort of perspective yeah and he there's Pock like I said before there's pockets of heart there John with him
yeah things that I that I showed him the documentary but things that weren in the documentary that's that a lot of people
don't know about Cliff Cliff is always rooting for the underdog one thing I really like about cliff and he still
does this he always helps friends out you know that was kind of his Downfall with operation stolen bases which he
explains in the documentary he goes oh I'm behind in a mortgage payment you know friends had come to him with all sorts of stuff behind a car payment
there was even family member that would come to Cliff his aunts and uncles and because and because he was making money
and he would do the things for them because Cliff always felt like he had to take care of everybody and he still has
that and Cliff doesn't do drugs he's never did drugs Cliff um he'll take in
people I I you know there was some friends that fell on hard times I mean with drugs and and alcohol and he would
always take them in and and he would do you know he would help turn their life around so there's these pockets of Cliff
that I know he'll become a good person but I I I really do think once he fully
accepts the fact that he did what he did I don't think he'll ever find peace I think he'll always kind of lead with
anger um but there is a good there is a good person in there you know for sure
yeah and you did you did a great job in in in showing that aspect it did come through uh uh in in the film you know
again not not to condone the the criminal side but in in watching the
film one of the things I said is as as as this ring got bigger and this person
was added you know again that voice in my head I'm like this is where this guy dropped the ball just it this got too
big there was no way it would succeed any longer like V again not to not I'm
not condoning crime but just when you watch a movie right said oh man that's where they screwed up right yeah yeah
you know that's where they they dropped the ball that's what I took is like man if he would have kept this to really a
small level with just minimal people yeah um who knows how long he would have
got it with it right I think it was when he's just hey you want to do this here's what you can do and I just I'm like it
almost became a little Amateur hour while he was not an amateur himself I think it it there was an element of that
in what happened and I'm like yeah yeah you could like if you didn't know how this ends like it became very very
apparent and right and that's you know someone gets caught and then they're going to roll over and like hey we'll
give you know we'll give you either immunity or a lesser sentence and if you
tell us everything you know and who's the who's the the head chef in the kitchen here yeah and uh you could even
you know even though I knew about the story like had I not like you could see that that coming down yeah down the
tracks you know and um again you know like you said I I think you put it ELO
you know the the Redemption story is going to be written by Cliff himself whether it is or or it isn't and I guess
that's there's Beauty in that right one way or or the other like he's gonna have no one else to blame uh you know he'll
either get the credit for being a Redemption story or he'll get to blame for for not learning his lesson exact he
gets to control that sort of Destiny you know so absolutely I hope I hope it's on the right side uh you know rather than
on the wrong I don't I try not to root against people so whether I like him or don't like him um I try to generally not
read so you know for the sake of his mom and and you know the time he has left I
hope uh I hope he does the uh the right thing but I really the way you presented that whole case even though I knew quite
a bit about it it filled in a ton of blanks and and that was the first I you
know and I think for a lot of people even knew the C that's the first I really heard from him you know the voice
whether you agree with everything he says or not that was the you know he did get to tell his side of story might
believe some of it and not all of it but he did get to to tell it and uh I
thought that was refreshing and I thought it was I thought it was uh well done thank you thank you very much well
it's it's a great movie it's it's coming out uh February 16th by time me he this
part of of the episode it it's out uh where for those listening uh where can
that that want us view it Michael kind of tell people what they have to do where they have to go yeah it's it's on
Apple TV and Amazon we'll premiere on those on February 16th so that's that's
coming up pretty soon and yeah I mean those that's where we Premiere and then in the months following I'm sure it will
it will go elsewhere and then just be on my social you know just stay tuned to my social media michaelj dot on Instagram
and or my website michael.com and yeah you'll always there'll be a lot of uh
updates on where it goes from there well listen I I you know I
legitimately appreciated and and loved the film thank you so much it it's you
know I always and it's not you know whether I'm scre write reading a book from an author that that's coming on the
show um this isn't the first movie uh I got the screen I've been been blessed
and privilege you know I always go in kind of open-minded I don't want to like I think some sometimes if you oh man
this is going to be the you you sort of set the bar too high and then you don't want to do the opposite right like this
is so I kind of go in like hey I don't know what to expect I haven't seen this
yet so uh and you just like I said uh earlier too you checked a lot of the
boxes to me it's the best film that really shows what the the true face of
the hobby good and bad you yeah you know uh and that's a good you know it's a
good thing that you did that well we don't like to as you Illustrated some people don't want to talk about the bad
stuff all the time I I think we got to because that's how you avoid the Pratt
Falls or falling uh prey to it is we ed through education right absolutely and I
I think there's an education uh piece to the to the film uh as well right we can
learn uh from this right to what to look for uh be careful um this is real these
happen and um and uh you know so I think uh I think people who who who see the
film especially that are familiar with the hobby I think will feel much the same way Michael like this really didn't
leave too many stones unturned and uh that's not it's easier said than than
done and you did a great job with it I I'll put you one last question I'll put you I'll put you on the hot seat before
we we we say goodbye like you know you mentioned you know there's obviously footage that you can't get everything in
the movies some stuff yeah doesn't make it in you know might we see uh uh you
know whether it's a part two or even just a another hobby movie maybe called
something else I mean what you know what can you say to to that yeah I will say
you know it's I have all this footage that we cut out and there's some good stuff I mean we interviewed other people
um there's a couple more people that did some crimes that we interviewed that we just couldn't fit in um so yeah I'm I'm
kind of going through my options right now I kind of want to wait till the release of this and see how it's received and um and then kind of go from
there and if there's yeah if if anybody's open if they want to see more
yeah I I would 100% want to tackle this again because one thing that's good about this hobby John which you know
obviously there's so many angles to this hobby I mean there's so many different and it changes changes time man the CH
it I used to say one of my lines I use I said this hobby changes every couple
years it changes by the week now yes current the current edition of of the
hobby we're in now every week there's something new or there's a new wrinkle or new story like the new cycle you know
you you could do a monthly publication and and not miss anything you you you
can't do a daily publication or a and you without missing something so the new
cycle is is quick there's new wrinkles there's new Innovations Technologies uh
and good stuff too it's not even just the bad rinkle you know so so I you know
I will say this I'll be selfish and I think other people who see this film will will is as great as it is and
knowing that there's more that you have probably will say this was so great so
good let I I want to see I want to see you know so uh you know hope hopefully that's the
case and uh love to have you back and we can do it do it all over again well
listen uh great film uh I'm not just saying that I seen it um you know and uh
you know it's it's long and length but like it's to me a mark of a long a good long movie is you don't you don't
realize the time until you look at the clock like you you know a bad movie is like you keep looking at your watch and
like how yeah oh yeah I didn't realize the length until after it was already
over that to me that's the mark of of a a good film and you're not looking like
how much time is left or like just got to be close uh and and the way you put
it together uh I think really keeps it kept me engaged and and locked in and
and you know I try to take notes if I'm screen like there was times when I probably should have been writing
something down and I'm like no I'm I'm watching this what's what's next or what
are they gonna say now and I'm like oh I missed my note you know and i' re I I'll
be honest with you I re I re rounded a couple just to like write something down
so uh very well done uh you did uh way of you know you did your due diligent
you covered sort of all the angles which I think uh is a true Testament uh to
where the hobby is good and bad uh and I think people going to enjoy it uh like I
did and uh probably probably yearn for for part two or another edition of it so
absolutely let's hope yeah there you go well listen continued success Michael uh
hobby hustle uh is the film uh whether you're a longtime hobbyist like me or
fairly new it really interesting and trolling and uh you know really shows
kind of again all the aspects of of what's going on and uh again you can
learn uh it's it's not just a a documentary where you just watch it I
think you can learn uh some things and if this old dog like myself can learn
some stuff uh uh that tells you a lot so uh thanks again thanks John thanks so
much man all right that's gonna wrap up our conversation with Michael do and uh again great film check it out if you
haven't and if you missed part one of our conversation uh from the previous week
uh check that out as well uh just uh enjoyed talking about the film talking
about the hobby uh with Michael so uh you know he's a busy guy between the
film coming out and interview request I appreciate him uh coming out time for
our hobby is the people announcer of the [Music]
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