Ep.309 w/ Karen Swanson "Swinging into History"

Transcript

sports card Nation the hobby is the

people Weekly News and interviews It's

Your Number One Source sports card

Nation the hobby is the

[Music]

people Sports

Nation what is up everybody Welcome to

episode

309 of sports card Nation so did you

know that Hank Aaron will may had a

female teammate during their Negro

League

days I did but I didn't know all the

details uh as I do now and if you don't

you might like this episode uh we're

going to learn about Tony Stone Tony

Stone was the first female professional

ball player and played with the guys

that would wasn't in the All-American

Girls baseball league but played in The

Negro League with the Indianapolis

clowns and uh was a teammate of Willie

Mays Hank Aaron and Helder rone this was

not a publicity stunt or any kind of uh

just to gain attention and uh she she

held her own probably should have played

more uh than she did and we're going to

learn uh a little bit about that and

more uh today's guest Karen Swanson has

written a book uh swinging into history

the Tony Stone story we're going to

learn about the pro how she got to

writing this book how she learned about

Tony Stone and who Tony Stone was so um

I think you're going to you know it's

not so much sports cards but uh you know

vintage era uh baseball and so I think

you'll enjoy this episode so let's take

a quick 30 second commercial break and

then we'll be on with author Karen

Swanson hi I'm Isaac Albert a long Time

Card Collector and the co-founder of the

penny severer my wife and I started the

penny severer with a simple premise in

mind to offer collectors top quality

supplies at fair prices we offer a full

range of hobby supplies and we'll get

them to you fast whether you're looking

for a 260 Point magnetic for that

oversized batch card or a slew of semi-

rigids for your next PSA submission the

penny severer has you covered shop now

now at the penny.com and use the promo

code sction to get 10% off your first

order that's SC Nation for 10% off at

the penny.com the penny sever top

quality supplies fair prices

[Music]

all right happy to have my next guest on

the sports card shop guest line she's

the author of a new book uh swinging

into history have it right here I put it

on on camera it's a a great book about

someone I I have a feeling uh many will

may not have heard the story or know of

the subject of that book and that's what

we're going to talk about uh today with

the author uh Karen Swanson welcome

thank you very much I'm glad to be here

thanks um great book it it is a

children's book uh which didn't stop me

uh from reading it because I'm just a

big kid at heart anyway and you know I'm

a teaching assistant that works in the

special education department uh Karen so

you know we have these obviously in hand

I'm going to uh incorporate that uh in

some fashion into our curriculum during

uh during the year um great but even

being a CH children's book it it it

really hit home and and told the story

of the subject uh which is Tony Stone

the first professional women's uh ball

player and uh I was telling you before

we recorded I've heard a little bit

about her but I didn't know all the

details that you did a great job um sort

of filling in and I obviously learned

more about her and then even you know

did more research and tried to learn

even uh more about her um you know this

isn't that you're an author already but

this not necessar your Forte but you

were inspired walking by a play that she

was the subject of which led to you

writing this book I'll let you I'll let

you tell kind of the story of where the

you know the light bulb sort of went on

and and now we have this great book

great I'm happy to do that um and it's a

great book for for youth in school so um

especially because there's a timeline at

the back so fifth graders are really

great with this for writing book reports

um so the how I got in inspired to write

this book was that I was literally

walking down the street and saw a

billboard for this new play in 2018

called Tony Stone and I am an athlete I

played softball growing up but I always

was a little more interested in baseball

my son played baseball all through high

school and was recruited for college so

I know a lot about baseball I enjoy the

game and I was like wait a minute how is

it possible that a woman play

professional baseball and I I did not

know this I just couldn't believe it so

I bought tickets for myself and my

husband and two friends that I'm like

y'all are coming to this and we're gonna

go see this play and I probably annoyed

everybody because I used my watchlight

to take notes because I was like kids

need to know about this um and that's

kind of how that started um from there

there's a lot of research that goes into

writing non-fiction um so yeah it's a

picturebook biography for kids

non-fiction but it takes quite a lot of

effort to um make sure that everything

in it is completely accurate um and I

relied pretty heavily on a book um by a

woman named Martha Amman called

curveball which is really the definitive

uh biography of Tony she is a professor

who spent I don't even know how many

years getting um getting Tony's Story

down like for adults it's several

hundred pages long um and but then also

did a lot of other primary research so

um that is how I um was interested and

for me personally it hit home because

Tony's story is one of just absolute

determination no one wanted her to play

baseball no one her parents didn't want

her to play the kids even though she was

by far the best athlete um and was

written up in like you know St Paul's

you know best athlete as a kid um she

just the boys didn't want to be bested

by a girl her parents didn't want her

doing something that in the 1930s that's

so unfeminine um and it's I mean no and

then when she made it you know no one

wanted her to play there either so it's

a story about making your own dreams

come true and determination and

resilience and and um sexual

discrimination and as well as racial

discrimination and that really spoke um

a lot to me yeah and you make a great

point in the book and I think it's you

mention it there too just now now right

her her own parents know for their own

reasons right didn't really support her

her dream uh to play baseball they

probably you know thought it was kind of

a pipe dream in their minds and you know

maybe her energy could be better spent

uh in a in a different direction but

like you said it's a great book and it's

a great story of determination right to

sort of like I don't want to say go get

your parents but they they really

weren't thrilled by that fact she even

you know purchased her own baseball

glove yeah and and and you know her

parents like you just mentioned weren't

the only ones that were resistance uh to

her playing it you know uh the male ego

it can be a fial thing and and and and

and males in in the sport uh did not

accept her the the book illustrates uh

some of the things she ran up against

and uh the difficulties and it would

have been easy probably for her at any

time to like throw her glove in the

closet so to speak and that' be it and

and we never know about you know a Tony

Stone uh but she she persevered she

played for a while she played you know

in in the leag uh baseball league uh

with the males it's not it wasn't the

the women's version like we had uh with

the major leagues and and you know the

Tom Hanks movie A League of Their Own

which is a a great league in itself uh

but uh it was in she was playing with

male contemporaries including the likes

of Satchel Page and Hank Aaron and

Willie Mays I'm sure uh those guys need

no introduction I guess one of the

questions I have is I had heard some

Rumblings about her but I didn't know

the whole story why do you why and I

hope your book leads to in the other

book you mentioned that you you you know

that's more if you will adult oriented

uh why do you thinks we don't know more

about this what do you is it is it

Society just kind of continuing that

that that you know societal line which

is not a good one where you know suppos

you know allegedly women can't do this

why do you think that her story you know

we hear a lot of inspirational stories

you know along racial lines and and

social issues you know Rosa Parks Jackie

Robinson the list goes on and on why

isn't this story of of bigger one with

with Tony Stone what do in your opinion

what do you think why is that the case

it's a great question actually no one's

ever asked me that question and um I'm

not sure I know exactly but um you know

partly it's probably because um you know

for years and years and years the Negro

Leagues were not um

considered um by coopertown to be you

know major leagues even though at the

time it was the major league for black

players right so there's there's some of

that so there's you know there's just

not enough information there's also um

you know it is still wildly discouraged

for girls to play baseball um I mean the

fact that Monae Davis pitched in the

World Series uh Little League World

Series and then gave up baseball you

know baseball in college they don't want

girls still even after Title 9 so I

don't know that there's anybody that's

like was saying okay you know she's

leading the charge um for for making

changes in baseball um so you know I

don't know and and you know as you said

earlier they male ego um or people just

you know there's very little written

about Tony because of the time that it

was also so it if Martha Amman hadn't

written that book I would never have

been able to write this book so um

so I think um you know the like if you

think about you know the William sisters

I'm a huge tennis fan if you think about

the William sisters you know a lot more

about that story because it unfolded in

a way where the media was and that's not

the case here she was written up many

times in the Chicago Defender but you

know white Americans largely aren't

going to know what that is um so there

probably several things so I don't know

if that's helpful but that's my take on

it yeah no it makes sense I I I I I

think you know what you said Rings true

right but what I'm hoping you know again

you you got the inspiration to write

this this book uh walking by that that

billboard you know you think maybe now

with with Society being better we

there's always room for improvement

there's a ways to go more social media

might you think that you you know the

general public might start to hear more

about Tony Stone might we see a movie

even you know it's funny K I don't know

how you feel about this sometimes we see

them like redo movies like just kind of

a retake uh there it's almost like

they're running out of ideas in

Hollywood or in entertainment right to

me this would be a great a great movie I

mean I'm not I'm not saying it's gonna

be a blockbuster I think it's it could

be an important movie that people would

really enjoy and learn more about the

history and fabric of America of sports

of society you think that maybe that is

something that we'll we'll see maybe

hopefully uh come of this gosh I don't

know but I would love to um I mean there

is a TV series H the name is escaping me

at the moment but I'll come up with it

um that was basically it's uh built on

the fact that you know A League of Their

Own in the a a

gpbl at the time uh was a baseball

league for women but it was only for

white women women um and what um this TV

series did a great job of actually is

they had one black character it's

fictional but they were based what I've

read about it is that they based the

main character whose name is Max on Tony

Stone and then the two women who played

uh on the clowns after her um uh maybe

uh I'm spacing on names today sorry uh

peanut and may I'll come up with that

yeah give people do do do some research

too on their own there as well which is

you know something I did even after

reading the book I wanted to learn more

and I I almost felt you know I almost

Karen I almost felt a little guilty that

I didn't know more even though it wasn't

intentional you know I I felt like I

should have known more about this than

than I I happened to and that's why I'm

hoping be no way yeah time for a quick

break but we'll be right back

[Music]

iron sports cards is your number one

source for all your PSA and other

grading submissions their Elite status

improves turnaround times heck they even

provide the card Savers their chat rooms

provide updates on all your submissions

they also offer wax options and single

cards to cover all the bases check them

out on Facebook at irons sportscards

group or on the web at irons

sportscards.com or even give them a call

at 1877 i n PSA Rob's got you covered

for nearly 50 years Sports collector's

digest has been the voice of the hobby

bringing you comprehensive coverage of

the sports collectible industry from

industry news auction results market

analysis and in-depth stories about

collectors and their collections Sports

collector's digest has everything you

need to know about the hobby SCD is also

your leading source for listings of

sports collectible dealers card shops

card shows and the latest from the

industry's top companies to check out

all the latest news or to subscribe to

the Hobby's oldest magazine visit sports

collectors digest.com or call

1800829

[Music]

5561 bab sports card nation has

returned you mentioned about uh you know

the the girls professional League you

know did apply I found this out actually

today she applied to play in that and

they they they didn't even refuse her

they pretty much just didn't even

respond to her they ignored her as if

yeah as if she they weren't even

receiving the message when they probably

were doing and so they didn't even

dignify her with even a no or response

in some form of fashion which you know

in my opinion you know I I I feel you

know like at least say no or give a

reason why or whatever uh the case may

be but to like completely ignore and

that's the kind of the obstacles she ran

up with at different points uh with

different things and you know someone

will say well Jad how maybe this was you

know we've seen stuff in in professional

sports right Eddie gell the the the the

short person who they had play one game

publicity stunts if you will this this

wasn't a publicity stun she she held her

own to a place she batted two 43 there's

some male players that would love uh

that batting average comparatively

speaking to maybe what they actually

batted so she held her own she was

pretty good on the defensive side uh in

the infield uh as well and so yeah um

she played it wasn't like she played in

one game and that was the story she she

played um Y and uh so this is not one of

those type of stories where it's a

publicity stunt it's cute and then

that's the end of it right this is she

had a passion for it this this was not

her just uh I just want to get my name

out there she she really didn't even

care so much about that if she just

loved the game of baseball wanted to

play and and didn't want special

treatment you know what I mean she was

playing with in the Negro Leagues like I

said with the Hank erand and Satchel

Pages yeah and that sort of thing so

well go ahead and to that end the one of

the my there are two two well there are

three favorite quotes that I have in

this book but one of them is this

amazing spread the artist Laura Freeman

who's spectacular who who illustrated

this whole book this really is a very

good likeness of of Tony um in her later

days um you know the quote here is

worked hard for my dream gave up a lot

but my dream came true playing baseball

with the big boys she said that to her

niece um and I got that quote from

interviewing her niece um yeah and on

the back of the book book um it was very

important to me that Tony's Family

supported this um and that you know her

niece Maria bartlo said everything in

this book is true to the fact it

beautifully captures my aunt Tony's

fighting spirit and fierce determination

and so yeah she just wanted to play at

the level that her skill would allow and

that was the same as the rest of these

guys um and it is interesting because

you're right she wanted no special

treatment um and you know no pitchers

are going to not Pitch no pitch going to

want her to get a hit off him so you

know she she played for real and had

real stats and you know played at second

and was spiked high and you know went

for it um but the way that she was able

to Wrangle finally a minor league

contract so that she could get seen in

front of Pros was by saying Hey to you

know people come to watch a woman play

and that was a very double-edged sword

because it it got her where she needed

to get to but it also then and you know

meant that she would play for a couple

of innings and then get pulled um and

then that was a source of frustration

for her that you know she just assumed

that if she made it that her results

would carry and she would get the

playing time that she deserved and that

was just really not the case so it's it

she was a real player she she played

again you know Hank Aaron called her a

very good baseball player Ernie Banks

said she was so talented she played with

and against all of them and you know

that's that's um how she got there yeah

and like I said you don't you know

anyone that knows baseball 243 250

that's one out of every fourth batch

you're getting a hit and you you know

like any pitcher I'm a former baseball

player and a former pitcher right I

don't want anybody uh getting a hit off

if I can prevent it right I'm sure there

was a little more competitive juices

flowing again male ego male pride

whatever however you want to word it

right I don't want a female to get a hit

off like yeah and and so she probably

got the best stuff and and they really

kind of probably maybe even Bear Down on

the mount even more so to to prevent

that from happen and yet she still

batted 240s 250s and there's a lot of

baseball play players that would like

that average that uh don't get that so

um and and you know I and reading the

book and and you're pointing out how you

know it was frustrating that she'd get a

few Innings each game and and sometimes

not even that right again her

perseverance right someone else would

have been like I'm quitting or this is

you know Y and she enjoyed the game

enough to even take it in that form even

though that's not you know I'm sure she

it was frustrating for her she was still

part of the game part of the team enough

not to to just pack it in throw a glove

you know go home throw a glove on the

floor and and be done with it where I

think you know maybe 80% of other people

would would do that and no one would

really blame them with that sort of

treatment right um and yet she was

dedicated perseverance right uh grit

words I like to use and and she def

itely had that she had you know Not only

was she a woman trying to break that

baseball barrier but an africanamerican

woman so it was it was it was double you

know double difficult if you will the

obstacles were were twice as much as

many others were and I just the other

thing I took from from the story too is

here we have the Negro Leagues where

they're not allowed to play in the Major

League uh at this point and so they're

getting that sort of of you know bias if

you will and then the league itself was

doing that to to Tony like you can't

play with us it was sort of like the

food chain you know it just like two

wrongs in the sense there right and I

that that wasn't lost on me uh either

and um you know did she you know in

doing the res did she have other than

herself did she have any kind

of specific player that maybe

sort of tried to help or or or not

necessarily um you know it's interesting

um she was a very much a student of the

game and so she would talk on the on the

bus and watching people like you know

she wanted to learn how to hit

curveballs better um and you know I

don't remember which player she got the

advice from but whoever it was said you

need to lean into to a curveball um and

you know she would she would watch and

study um so any of the guys that were um

open to that you know she was friendly

with so Willie Mays when he was 18 and

at you know Pelican Park and being

scouted um you know was somebody that

she sat next to and like talked about

you know talked with him about the game

and they talked about who their Heroes

were and who she studied I mean she went

to every game in St Louis that she could

go to growing up and you know watching

all these players so um I'm not sure

that there's someone in specific other

than um you know when she finally did

get a chance to go to the baseball

school because she essentially talked

her way into it um you know the um that

um Gabby Street who was a major league

catcher um you know essentially wanted

nothing to do with her like and she just

went round and she just would not leave

and what's not actually in the book is

she had a broken arm while she was doing

this and she just was like I am just

going to this is too big of an

opportunity for me to pass up um so she

talked her way in to getting a chance to

play and he invited her to baseball ball

school and at the end for her 15th

birthday gave her cleats because she

could not go forward in the game wearing

just you know tennis shoes um and all

the rest of the white boys that were

there had like uniforms and cleats and

whatever and all she had was her 25 cent

Goodwill mitt and you know he gave her

cleats and the and that helped her

believe she could start barnstorming and

find her way into um the pros yeah and

again an incredible story and uh she she

made it uh to the league Rel leagues

didn't really you know we could talk

about which we already have sort of the

treatment there and not playing full

games and and that sort of thing um but

uh you know she she she made it that far

so did you know about Tony Stone uh I

did like I said a little bit but uh

after reading this book I learned a lot

more we are not done talking with Karen

Swanson uh we are for this episode uh

but stay tuned next week with the

conclusion and we're going to learn more

about Tony Stone and her life after her

career was over as well plus a little

more stuff uh uh during the career in

the process of writing uh this book

about her so uh thanks to Karen for

coming on and again we'll be back next

week with some more from Karen Swanson

about her book and the female first

professional female baseball player Tony

Stone time for our hobby is the people

announcer of the

[Music]

week hello rookie card collectors Victor

the rookie card specialist on YouTube

reminding you that the hobby is the

people if you'd like to be the hobby is

the people announcer of the week do a

wave or MP3 file and send it to

sportscard Nation PC at

gmail.com that's a wrap for this week

huge thanks to you the listeners out

there because without you there is no us

if you like the show we truly appreciate

positive

reviews Big Ups to our great guests who

drive the show and our awesome sponsors

who make it all possible sports card

Nation will be back next week but don't

forget to catch either hobby quick hits

or card Menches coming up on Monday I

leave you with this how do we change the

world one random act of kindness at a

time remember the hobby is the

people hobby hotline is the Hobby's only

live interactive Callin show join some

of your favorite hobby personalities

every Saturday 11:00 a.m. eastern 8:00

a.m. Pacific to discuss the hottest

hobby topics if you miss us live catch

us after the fact on all major podcast

platforms follow us on socials at Hobby

hotline hobby News Daily is your

homepage of the hobby providing original

writing exclusive gem rate data daily

Morning Minute Podcast and some of the

best content creators in the hobby

remember Hobby newws daily.com

and hobby News Daily on social happy

collecting

Ep.309 w/ Karen Swanson "Swinging into History"

Karen Swanson

Listen On

Featured Episodes

Recent Episodes

New to Sports Card Nation Podcast?

Ep.280 w/ Marc Mader "Rise of Ticket collecting"

Card Mensches E35 Hobby Mount Rushmores w/ Dr.James Beckett

Ep.273 w/ Steven Lane "Greatest Mantle Collection"

Ep.133 w/Sam Shuford from Women of the Hobby

Hobby Quick Hits Ep.70 The Market Crashing?

Ep.115 w/Rob Gough & the Record-Breaking Mantle

Ep.134 w/Jeromy Murray of Beckett

Hobby Quick Hits Ep.76 Live from the NSCC Main Stage w/Brody the Kid