Ep.275 w/ Lance Fischer of Onyx Authenticated

SPEAKER 1: What is up everybody? Welcome to episode 275 Sports Car Nation. Great to be back as always. And approaching episode 325 away, got a guest on today that kind of was always on my list. And finally, get them, Lance Fisher of Onyx Authenticated, you know, one of the smaller car companies, but they're doing big things.

SPEAKER 1: So they're one of those smaller card companies, but you, you almost don't know it. They, I'm, I have cards from these guys, Justin Herbert Autos. They have a lot of big names and, autographs. One claim to fame. They do not do Sticker Autos. So every card that's autographed on an Onyx card is on card. We're gonna talk about the difficulties of that. The advantages of that.

SPEAKER 1: We're gonna chop up some hobby and talk about, you know, their trials and tribulations as a company, how it started, how it didn't look like it might happen and, and now they're doing big things and, Lance is a smart guy, loves the hobby and really had fun, chatting hobby with him. So, with that being said, As always, let's start the show.

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SPEAKER 1: All right. Real happy to be joined by my next guest on the, sports car shop guest line. He is the owner and founder of Onyx, authenticated Mr Lance Fisher. Welcome.

SPEAKER 3: Thank you, John. I appreciate me and I appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm glad, glad you could make it. We had a little schedule and I've been under the weather, we had to kind of reschedule by a day. So, thank you for being accommodating there. I, I know I thank you off the air.

SPEAKER 1: If you will, I'll do an official on the air one as well. You know, it's the ST the standard, like first time on the podcast, question, but sort of your hobby background. When did it kind of all start for, for you and, and all that good stuff?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I know with, well, some people figure out my age as I kind of talk about that, but it started when I was probably about 10. So in what, 1983 84 a buddy of mine got me into collecting trading cards and believe it or not, we would kind of buy and sell at garage sales at the time. There was no ebay. And, I just to have a passion for it.

SPEAKER 3: And what's, what's interesting about the hobby is probably goes for a lot of us is, you know, when you hit, like, those teenage years you're like, oh, you know, cards are silly. Those are for kids, whatever. And you, you stop collecting but it always draws you back in and I can't tell you how many times I thought, you know, OK, my trading card thing is done.

SPEAKER 3: It's always pulled me back in and just been a collector ever since and that goes for trading cards, autographs, getting those baseball signed footballs.

SPEAKER 3: And, I think it really started taking off when I started recruiting for Florida State for the football team and just understanding kind of a whole another aspect of sports itself and then prospecting and recruiting and all that. And it got to the point where want to do this. So I don't want, I won't go into how we started the company but the class my collecting background.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And, and we're similar age. I was born in 72.

SPEAKER 1: It is what it is, right? My, like my dad says there's only one way to stop getting older. I'm not a fan, oo of that. So we, we're similar in, in age and I, I did not know that, that background with the, with the, the, you know, recruiting for Florida State.

SPEAKER 1: But again, that, that'll pro, that'll segue, Lance right into kind of, my next question is, is kind of the birth of Onyx kind of talk, you know, I, I've been in a hobby, 40 years. I, I know you guys are, new, you've been around since the early 2000.

SPEAKER 1: Some other people may not be as knowledgeable about that. So, you know, kind of where, you know, where the idea came from and when you decided to, to launch it, kind of how it all started, so to speak.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. No, it's a very interesting story. You know, as a, as a collector because that's what has to come first. You have to have a passion for, for doing this as a business, that's for sure because of the ups and downs. But, was collecting autographs and mine were traveling up to a minor league game and we were in the car and I said, you know, wouldn't mind doing this as a business.

SPEAKER 3: And he goes, like, you know, what, opening a hobby shop? Like, what are you thinking? I said, no, no, no. I said being a manufacturer, he says you're out of your mind. He's like, I, I don't know how you're gonna be able to pull that off because who do you know, you know, wh who, who, who's gonna know your brand and all that other good stuff.

SPEAKER 3: And I, you know, I thought about it and I thought about, you know, ok, well, if we did this and if we did that and we did some unique things, you know, I think we could kind of get our feet wet and, and, you know, be able to pull this off.

SPEAKER 3: So he was there more for moral support. And you know, I kind of financed everything and we started off in memorabilia and the thing that we were gonna do was launch our kind of mystery memorabilia product. And man, I'll tell you what John, the hardest thing was getting agents to even give you the time of day. It was, it was tough.

SPEAKER 3: You know, and it's funny because, and, and you know, this will maybe make some people laugh, but the guy who the player who really kind of, you know, got the spark going was Matt Laporta. And if you remember Matt Laporta when he was like, man, he was the guy, he was hitting home runs left and right when he was in the, everyone thought he was gonna be the next coming of Mickey Mantle.

SPEAKER 3: And that's actually the game that we were driving up to. And you know, I said, you know what, we'll talk to Matt and man, we'll get him to buy into this and we'll get him to, you know, kind of start the autograph process and all that. And luckily we were able to talk to him after the game.

SPEAKER 3: He signed a ball to me two L I still have that ball. And said to reach out to my agent Boris, I was like, ok, cool, no problem. And man, it, it went nowhere. It like they didn't return a call, didn't return an email, nothing. So it was a grind. And finally, in Jupiter Florida, a player named Logan Morrison and Mike Stanton who is John Carlo Stanton, were one of our first kind of clients.

SPEAKER 3: They signed autographed memorabilia and we were like, ok, cool, you know, we can get this going. We were able to get in touch with this agent, you know, especially with Logan's because it was a big deal. He wasn't getting any deals. So his agent was all for it.

SPEAKER 3: And believe it or not, our second player that we ever did an autograph signing with. And his first was Freddie Freeman and we actually had an option of either getting Jason Hayward or Freddie Freeman and this kind of put my recruiting cap on, but I really liked Freddie Freeman. I liked what he was showing in the game.

SPEAKER 3: I saw the potential and I thought it was better to go after him than Hayward and we did and I think everyone can figure out kind of what kind of decision that was. And so we, we started getting all these autographs, we put the product together and no one wanted to buy it.

SPEAKER 3: It's like, never heard of. You guys don't know what it is. It's cool. We had them in these nice little cigar boxes and a nice little cubes. So the display was already there and no one really wanted to give us a chance. So, some of the feedback we got was like, hey, you know, you need to get a deeper checklist. I think we only had like 12 guys.

SPEAKER 3: And so that's what we did. And that was a grind. And I want to say by the second or third year, we were able to lock in exclusives with Julio Teheran and let me see, Randall Delgado and Reyes Vis Kano and All Atlanta Braves and good high end prospects. I think Teheran at the time was top five in, in, in baseball America's publication.

SPEAKER 3: And so we took them in fact, it was Brian Gray had a show up in Atlanta and I reached out to him and asked if we could bring the guys in and they said, yeah, that's fine. And so we brought him in and it was interesting, he's got a lot of interest, a lot of public wanting to get their guys, their autographs.

SPEAKER 3: And we had made enough money where it was like, hey, you know what the Vegas summits coming up and there's an opportunity to really showcase Onyx in front of all the dealers and stores and distributors and everything like that. So we finally had a deep enough checklist and I think a product that was gonna interest people and everyone had to list.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, it was like this round robin, you know, almost like speed dating of all these store shop owners and distributors and everyone that was part of the hobby that had to listen to our pitch. At that time, the summit had this thing called Meet The Industry.

SPEAKER 3: I think it was. And that gave us a chance to actually talk to everyone about who we were, why we were different and what we could do. And Man John, after that was after we got done with the presentations, I think we ended up doing 10 that day and I, I couldn't even talk.

SPEAKER 3: Everyone wanted to, to buy into what this product was and sold out and it really kind of helped our launching point into getting into the industry, becoming a manufacturer per se. And, I wanna say another year or two later when my graphics guy is like, you know, what you should do trading cards. I thought he was crazy not gonna happen ever.

SPEAKER 3: It's too competitive and he kept pushing and pushing. So I think that the next Industry Summit, we brought a little sample of some of the cars that we were gonna do and people like them. So I was like, all right, let's give this a shot. And it was, and I know I'm making this a little bit of a long story but it was trading cars was a grind. I, I don't recommend it.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, not listen, I'll take competition every day, all day. The reason why I won't recommend it is it is a very, very frustrating thing. It's getting the logistics to players making sure there's no logos, making sure you got image rights making major. All these things are lined up in order to put a product that no one's ever heard of. So, you know, we, we kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

SPEAKER 3: We would say we break about even. And there was times when I was like, you know what, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I can't do these train cards, they drive me crazy and the passion for the hobby kept me going, it kept me doing it. And finally, in 2019, we brought on the vintage line and we had a sweet spot. People love the look, they like the feel.

SPEAKER 3: You know, on car autographs is kind of, it is very important and we were hitting a lot of marks that people were looking for at the time. And then of course, COVID came and that just kind of launched on it into the stratosphere and branching football, basketball, soccer now. So, you know, long story short, that's kind of a little bit of the history of Onyx right now.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's, I, I love it.

SPEAKER 1: You know, no offense to, no disrespect to Jason Heyward, I think, could call on the Freddie Freeman, versus Jason had Hayward. But, yeah, it's, like you said, you know, you might make it look easy or it might look easy from the outside looking in, but like you said, it's a grind, even the trading cards initially, you got all the things you have to line up and, and, you know, you're, you're kind of competing with the big boys.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, one of the things that, you know, with the major manufacturers that's kind of hurt them. If you ask collectors and, and as both of us are collectors, you know, there was a period there for a while where they, they got, I don't wanna say lazy, but sort of rested on the Laurel.

SPEAKER 1: Some of the complaints were the, the design was not innovative or they were just rehashing old stuff and trying to, you know, make it new again. And you know, it lacked some thought or, or you know, like I said, innovation and I one of the things with, with you guys, you kind of changed, you know, you brought your take on it and I think people found it refreshing, you touched on another huge thing, right?

SPEAKER 1: People have done whole podcast on, you know, on card versus sticker on autos. And, you know, you asked 10 collectors, which one would you rather have, you know, you're gonna get 10 people say I'd rather have an on card auto. Now, I'll say II I will answer that the same way. Sticker Autos don't bother me as much to someone else. But if given the choice of the two lads, it's a no brainer.

SPEAKER 1: Give me an on card or, but if, if you know, I, I, if, if, meaning like you don't have a sticker out or you can't get somebody that's, I guess what I'm trying to say, I'd rather still have someone be available in a product. You know, II, I, I'll go right into that. How difficult is, you know, we, we know a lot with redemptions with some of the companies do redemptions.

SPEAKER 1: And then they do the Sticker Autos because it's just easier to peel them and put them on top of a card. Talk about the difficulties of being on card. I have Onyx on card autos.

SPEAKER 1: They're beautiful and again, they're on card autos, they're, they're not Sticker Autos, but again, we appreciate pulling them out of a pack or acquiring them. But talk about it as a manufacturer, the difficulties in, in acquiring them and getting those things signed.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I, I it's.

SPEAKER 3: Definitely a logistical challenge, right? Because if they lose the cards, you can't just send a bunch of sheet of stickers again, which, you know, it has its benefits and its, you know, shortcomings. But you know, the on card piece, we just, we won't deviate.

SPEAKER 3: We've had a lot of people say, hey, you know, maybe you kind of start to slowly migrate stickers. And I'm like, nah, you know, this is what we're known for is on card and is difficult and challenging as it can be.

SPEAKER 3: You know, we, we, we roll with it and the good thing on that John is that we've got now every agency out there knows that we're only on card, you know, at first they're like, oh, you know, when are you sending the stickers? We're not sending stickers, we're sending cards. Oh, ok.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, that's right. I remember. So we've kind of set a precedent with us where the agencies know when it comes to Ony. Listen, they're gonna send you cards, you're not getting stickers. And what's, what's interesting too on that is that the players actually enjoy signing the cards a lot more than the stickers actually like knowing what they're signing then?

SPEAKER 3: Ok. I wonder what this is gonna go on and it's huge. I mean, it gives you more room like when we do our inscriptions, you know, unless you're gonna have a big sticker like this takes up, have the card.

SPEAKER 3: You know, it's hard to do any type of innovative or, or cool things on a sticker. It's just, there's not enough room and a big sticker is gonna look kind of corny. So, you know, there's, there's some big benefits there.

SPEAKER 3: And we just, we're not gonna deviate from, you know, as challenging as it can be.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I, I wanna say our biggest challenge now is just when the guys lose the card and whether we have enough time to reprint them again.

SPEAKER 3: And, and find out where did the cards go?

SPEAKER 3: That's, that's probably the biggest challenge. But, before that, yeah, it was just like, well, you know, the stickers are easy, you can send them, you know, instantly. So their thing is like, ok, when they agree to the deal, hey, send the stickers, you know, tomorrow. Well, now, now we have to go get the cards made.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, we, we've gotten to the point where they just know like, hey, once we agree to the deal, you gotta give us a few weeks or, or maybe even longer depending on the time of year on when we're gonna make the card. So we've set a precedent and I listen, I know some people have said, you know, well, stickers have got these big benefits compared to on card.

SPEAKER 3: That's fine. Everyone's got their opinion but, you know, it can be done, you know, no one can say, oh, you know, they have all card on card. Autographs. You know, unless unfortunately a person is deceased is impossible. That's not true.

SPEAKER 3: We've done it and we've done it year over year, over year and we've done it in different sports. So it's not true. Yes, it's hard, but it can be done. So, you know, it's, it's cool. It's cool to be a manufacturer that basically we can say that, hey, we've always done our card and, that's path we're gonna continue to take because that's precedent we set.

SPEAKER 1: I appreciate hearing you say that Lance said, hey, we're, you know, we're gonna stay on that track. There's a difference in quality between the two and we're not gonna kind of veer off and lower the quality, like you said, it is trickier. But you can still get it done and, and probably, unless I don't know something.

SPEAKER 1: The only company I know that that can put, you know, wear that belt, so to speak, of all on card autos, especially in the quantities.

SPEAKER 1: You know, I don't know if there's a small company that's got two athletes or whatnot, but of your stature that that's doing on card autos and there's something to be sad about that. You should be proud and, and to, you know, but further more and say, hey, we're, we're still gonna do it like we've done it long enough. We could probably do sticker orders and no one would complain maybe too much.

SPEAKER 1: But we just, we, it's a different in, in quality. We're, we're not gonna do it. You mentioned like a player maybe, or an athlete potentially losing all the cards. I, I get, you don't have to mention names or anything like that. Does that happen often? Like I, is it, so is it something that comes up sometimes? Not often, like, you know, talk about the, the kind of logistics there?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, and it doesn't happen often. Unfortunately, it happens, but it doesn't happen often.

SPEAKER 3: You know, one of the other things that we try to do is we try to do these things in person too.

SPEAKER 3: Granted it's not always easy. Baseball is, is probably the best sport to be able to pull that off one, especially during spring training because either everyone's in Florida or they're in Arizona, especially Arizona makes it logistically very easy. So, what we're, what we're doing now, John, especially because we're talking about the own card is the hard thing is getting dual signatures on, on one card.

SPEAKER 3: It's easier to just say, hey, you know what, let's, let's put three guys on here and we'll just, you know, put three sticker autographs on there. What we're doing this spring with the, with the spring vintage product is we're gonna be adding a bunch of dual autograph cards. And the reason for that is we're seeing a lot of these guys in person.

SPEAKER 3: Fact, we're having an event in a few weeks and we're gonna have the ability to do that and they're all gonna be on card. There's gonna be some cool descriptions. We, we've done, man, I, I wanna say one of the coolest subscriptions we've ever done was with CJ Stroud and Jackson Spencer Jig B where they put when they were in the Rose Bowl and I think it was against Utah.

SPEAKER 3: They both put up like video game numbers and so, so they signed the dual card each and then Jackson put his stats from that game on the one on his side and CJ Strapp, put his stats on the other side and we called the card, Bed of Roses and, I, there's someone out there that I know has the card now, they didn't pull it, but it is one of the cooler cards you'll see out there and it's a one on one.

SPEAKER 3: But, and I've got CJ holding the card, after they finished signing that, it was pretty cool but it's stuff like that that you can do. And in the hobby, I think you got to do stuff like that. You know, Cops did a phenomenal job with Victor.

SPEAKER 3: We yama and, you know, put, you know, he signed his first card. That's the stuff that, you know, the hobby want and needs. And, you know, I think we, we've got to continue to, to push that, push those limits.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that, that's cool and, and even, you know, get them in person right. That way, you know, that they were signed there are that you can't get any better authentic, authentication, than that. And, and like you said, taking a picture with that card where they wrote their stats.

SPEAKER 1: Just, just cool. Both had great years CJ. Strout had arguably, the greatest, rookie season by a quarterback in NFL history, but it's not the best. It's, it's in the con conversation and he, he definitely looks like the real deal.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, some might say, oh, you know, Lance, yeah, you have on card autos but they're, you know, be quality players. I think that just goes to show you, you know, throw that argument out the window. It's not gonna, it's not gonna hold water.

SPEAKER 1: You know, the nil has obviously been a, a huge thing in the, in the last couple of years where, where it being officially ratified with college players can literally get paid, you know, by whether it be alumnus or, or a, or the college themselves or local businesses, you know, you were kind of doing that.

SPEAKER 1: I in your way, you know, before that is that with, with the landscape changing on the nil front, has that made what you do easier or has it up the degree of difficulty?

SPEAKER 3: No believe it or not. It's made it a lot easier. We've got a relationship with a lot of the school's collectives now. And what makes it very interesting and, and I've had a lot of conversations with the, the different agencies, especially over the winter meetings on the impact that the collectors have compared to the agencies because the collectors now are signing the players.

SPEAKER 3: Whereas I wanna say about not maybe a year ago, maybe just over a year ago, for all these collectors started to form, it was representation from an agency that when the kid graduated and was ready to go into the professional piece, they were gonna stay with that agency.

SPEAKER 3: Well, now the collectors are kind of stealing all these guys signing agreements that they'll, you know, stay with the school or they'll do all these autographs, things like that. And it's made it a very interesting aspect from where Nil on the player side started to where it is today with the collectives and, and how impactful they have.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, when Nil first started, you know, the players were getting paid, but it, I don't think anyone expected what we see today. We're now you've got quarterbacks that had a great year in college are commanding, you know, a seven figure deal and order to transfer, you know, to get into the portal.

SPEAKER 3: That's the big deal. So, you know, it's helped us out a lot. Where in baseball, I'll give that as an example, you know, we had to look at the, like the international pool that, would have the, the, I think it's January 2nd signing or January 7th, whatever it used to be July 2nd.

SPEAKER 3: You know, getting those guys early was kind of, you know, cool thing to do. But now with nil, we can get college kids that, we couldn't even touch before.

SPEAKER 3: So some of the guys who played at LSU, you know, in football, man, I can't tell we, we got relationships with the University Of Michigan and Alabama and Georgia and I mean, you name it, you know, the big, big schools because they know what we do and what we've been doing for a while. And so, we love it. I, I love Nil recruiting for Florida State football.

SPEAKER 3: It's been a long time coming and the fact that, you know, the kids now can make some money, I think there needs to be some, some, some restraints on it. I do agree that there needs to be that but the fact that kids are now making money and not basically living off mcdonald's.

SPEAKER 3: And, and making the schools all this money.

SPEAKER 3: It's about time, it's about time it happened.

SPEAKER 3: They just need to kind of wrangle it in a little bit. I think the portal is out of control.

SPEAKER 3: They, they, they shouldn't have where a kid could jump in the portal every single year. So you can jump in the portal once and you know that.

SPEAKER 3: So if you don't like the school, that's fine, go ahead and jump the portal. But after that, you know, you're stuck. So, you know, I think there needs to be some, you know, accountability there. But anyways, long story short again, we love it. We love in, I.

SPEAKER 1: I agree with you by the way, on, on the portal, I think it's too much like the, the wild, wild west where, you know, some don't go the kids way where, you know, they or they don't play enough or they don't get something. I think it's too easy for them to say I'm out of here. I think there should be some upper.

SPEAKER 1: I, I like, I like, you know, a lot of that came from like coaches just leaving on a dime and leaving the kids sort of hanging. So I, I get what the portal kind of originally came from and, and it's, it's usefulness but like you said, Lance, I think there's gotta be some parameters, some rules, you know, whether be like you said, I would, I agree.

SPEAKER 1: I think that's what I would say is you can do it one time whenever you decide to do it, that's up to you. But it's, you get one crack to you, get one ride, you know, one spin on it. So make sure that that's when you want to do it.

SPEAKER 4: You are listening to the Sports Car Nation podcast.

SPEAKER 4: We'll be right back after this break.

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SPEAKER 6: Thanks for sticking with us. Let's return to the show.

SPEAKER 1: A follow up question to, you know, the difficulties now that these young, you know, folks and athletes are, are, have more opportunities to make money. Has it made it, has it cost Onyx more to, to sign these deals with these players? Are they a little more?

SPEAKER 1: I don't know if Savvy is the right word but are they a little more woke about like, hey, I can, you know, or you, has it been competitive? Like, hey, I can get this from over here. Can you match that or beat that? Is it, has that stuff kind of come into play or, or not necessarily?

SPEAKER 3: No, I wouldn't say it's coming to play like that. I think everyone understands the parameters of, of what's been set when it comes to these guys out. Hey, listen, they all test it. You know, they'll, they'll come to us and want to pay X amount of money.

SPEAKER 3: And I'm like, oh, no, we're not. We're not doing that, see where this is going. And if Johnny football makes, you know, let's throw a number out there $100 for an autograph, that means the next Johnny football two is gonna want 100 and $25 and that's not a precedent we wanna set, we wanna keep things even kill, you know.

SPEAKER 3: Yes, we get certain aspects, you know, that, that are gonna drive prices up a little bit.

SPEAKER 3: But there's been attempts to really drive it high but, you know, it's, it's being able to have the restraints on there and knowing there's a lot of other players out there just because, you know, you're throwing one guy that could be a Heisman candidate. Guess what?

SPEAKER 3: There's about five or six other ones that are also in the same boat that you can go and get a reasonable deal with. And, you know, on that note, this is where it's important where the manufacturers.

SPEAKER 3: Yes, we don't communicate like that, but there's an understanding that if you know, an agent or a collective or someone comes and says, hey, you know, we want this for a player, we kinda know in our heads like, you know what? It doesn't make sense and we don't want to artificially escalate the price that these guys are gonna get.

SPEAKER 3: Because listen, and in the end it's gonna affect the consumer, then we have to increase the price of our product. And you know, and and that doesn't mean just because Johnny football wants this, that the value of his card is gonna be that.

SPEAKER 3: And so we got kind of, you know, keep all that in mind and understand it. And I think, you know, the manufacturers kind of get it. We all know where that range should be based on quantities and guarantees and it exclusives and all that good stuff.

SPEAKER 3: So, there's been some challenges in the past, I won't get into it, but there's been challenges with other companies kind of rocking the boat with another company because they didn't want to pay that much and now they're stuck paying it because you basically built the, the, the, you know, the, the bottom and, you know, you don't wanna kind of piss off the, the big dogs, you know, not knowing or understanding what you want.

SPEAKER 3: So you gotta be real careful with that.

SPEAKER 3: So, again, no, it's, it's, you know, we've, we've been able to maintain control but there's times it gets tested.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And, and I get it, you know, every everyone wants to, to get the most bang for the buck. You know, I guess it's easy to start high and then kind of come down and, and be realistic about it, you know, you mentioned tops fanatics earlier.

SPEAKER 1: You know, the they're obviously now gonna be the big player in the industry. They kind of always were but even more so now with fanatics acquiring them and the licensing of three of the, the major sports, you know, you're as, as a collector, as a, as someone who got started in the hobby kind of, thoughts on two fronts. Just your general thoughts and how does that affect what you do wi without it?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. No, it's, it's, you know, it's interesting. It's got its Pros and its cons, you know, I think Tops is doing some really good things. I love, I absolutely love what they did with the debut patch.

SPEAKER 3: I think that, you know, genius, the fact that they were able to get the players to wear those patches on their jerseys on their debut jerseys and then be able to take that patch and put it in a card is incredible. I mean, it's such a unique piece.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, things like that I think are fantastic what they're doing on the marketing end, you know, the Tom Brady commercial that, you know, everyone saw with the Montreal Expos. That was incredible. That's the stuff that's really going to get, you know, new collectors in the hobby and, and get people to stay engaged.

SPEAKER 3: You know, we just can't saturate it with a zillion different, you know, products or, you know, too much. One thing, I mean, we don't want to get back into the late eighties, early nineties. The worst thing we could do.

SPEAKER 3: You know, the downside is, you know, they are corporation and they're a very large corporation. They've got to make money and they've got shareholders and they've got other stuff that, you know, they got to appease and, you know, unfortunately that can negatively impact the hobby where, you know, the, the shareholders want more.

SPEAKER 3: It's like, hey, listen, I made this investment, I want more, I need a bigger return. I expect more. I expect more growth, whatever it is. And so, you know, you've got to be able to balance that. So, you know, hopefully they're able to do that.

SPEAKER 3: You know, it's, you know, I won't say it's a bad thing right now.

SPEAKER 3: But if it's not balanced correctly and the right people aren't making the best decisions, you know, for the hobby because it is the one thing we can't forget, it is a hobby. That's how it started. You know, everyone's gonna remember. This is a hobby.

SPEAKER 3: Yes. You can make money from it and you do very well. But always remember it's still a hobby and, you know, that's the important part there. And, you know, tops, keeps that in mind. Especially with the innovation that they're doing.

SPEAKER 3: I'm all for it, you know, and, and, you know, there's, the hobby is big enough where there's room for a bunch of us.

SPEAKER 3: You know, it doesn't have to be just one.

SPEAKER 3: You know, like us, we've got our niche, you know, the on card and, you know, even though it's not, got the logos on there, people still enjoy it and, you know, don't, don't, you know, the big dogs should never try to ruin that. Don't ruin the little dogs just because you want everything.

SPEAKER 3: You know, you're gonna piss too many people off. You're gonna set the wrong precedent and, you know, we gotta, we gotta work together, you know, again, it's a hobby so we can't forget that.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, said, you know, my fear is someone's been in the, like you said, lived in the eighties and nineties to what's been, referred to as the junk wax era. You know, two things. You obviously don't really want to see return to that as far as what comes the production and, and printing presses that are probably still rolling, to this day.

SPEAKER 1: A kid. But the other thing too, I'm a, I'm, I'm old school to the point where, like, I think the more companies that are, are doing something, the better competition and the more it pushes each company to put out the best product because you're competing against, you know, three or four, you know, when, when it was taps and upper deck and Fleer And Score and Don Rs and others.

SPEAKER 1: You know, I always felt like that, you know, they each had to, like, try to outdo one another or, hey, this is why we're the best and you got some of that innovation, at times, I guess my fear is with, with Tops having everything, but Hockey Lance is that they might rest on the Laurels and kind of feel like, hey, you have to buy this product because it's the only licensed basketball, football and baseball product.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, it's almost like they force feed, that's force fee to t that's, that's sort of my fear with where we're going, like you said right now, I'm cautiously optimistic, kind of like you said.

SPEAKER 1: But I, I feel like because there's not a lot of, you know, there is no other company producing license product, when, when this licensing fully, goes into their, their corner that you, you, you know, they may not be on the f, on the innovative front or they may just say, hey, you, you gotta buy the product because there, there is no other licensed product.

SPEAKER 1: I hope they don't do that. There's a lot, like you said, there's a lot of smart people in that room that are making certain calls. You hope that the smartness prevails rather than just someone in a, in a money room counting, you know, count money.

SPEAKER 1: I mean, how do you, you know, I, I guess, you know, we, we're, we're not fortune tellers obviously, but I mean, where, how do you think this get, you know what do you think winds up happening? Where if you, if you had to, like, predict, you know, where do I think this goes?

SPEAKER 3: But I think the biggest thing that scares me is we get back in the junk wax area again.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I, I read about how much series one was produced for this year and it's, it's mind boggling. It's absolutely mind boggling and, you know, listen, I get it. It's, it's series one. It's, you know, it's the flagship. So there should be a lot of, it should be in every retail store. It should be in all the hobby shops should be all over the place.

SPEAKER 3: Right. So, there should be a lot of demand for it. But, you know, again, as soon as you start over saturating something, you're gonna burn people out, people only have so much money, there's only so many, you know, millionaire hobbyists out there that at some point they're gonna get burned out.

SPEAKER 3: And that's, that's the worst thing we can do. Now, now, if we're able to expand this globally into current production runs, then, you know, but then that, that, that's fine because there's a lot more people globally and that's spread out a lot more.

SPEAKER 3: But, you know, if it's, you know, if we're not able to do that, it's, it's gonna go right back in the junk wax era and we're gonna end up concentrating all this product on a certain amount of people and, we're gonna burn them out, we're gonna burn people out and, you know, we just got to be careful with that. So that's, that's the thing that scares me the most of what's going on right now.

SPEAKER 3: You know, III I, I've heard this, that, you know, fanatics is, is assessing the number of autographs that they're doing and, you know, this is all hearsay. So, you know, please fanatics. I'm not trying to pin you guys saying that you're not gonna have as many autographs. But, I think the, the, the athletes themselves are getting burned out by signing tens of thousands of cards.

SPEAKER 3: And so what's happening is they're gonna cut everyone out, right? So that Jackson holiday is burned out. We try to get him in this year's spring product and he, he's, he's still playing catch up. He, he, he just doesn't have any interest of having more cards to sign. So it's not always about the money, it's just about burning the players out and getting them to the point where they don't wanna even sign an autograph anymore.

SPEAKER 3: And we've seen and heard that quite a few times. So, you know, that may be another approach that might help rein some of this quantity in too because if there's not as many autographs, then I wouldn't think as much product would sell because people like to chase the. So, so we'll see, we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's a great point about, you know, we talk about collectors getting burned out but the players, the players themselves and I've, you know, I'm here in Syracuse. We have the, the AAA New York Mets here. We have obviously Syracuse University and I, I think it's, I, I think you'll agree with this, correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER 1: I think players are signing less at, at games themselves, at the, at the events themselves. Be, be. Well, what you just said, they've just signed so many for the companies that they're just like, I don't wanna sign anymore. So whether if they run out to a bus or they quickly leave out a side door, you know, I've heard even instances Lance where a player or an athlete will say like I can't sign up, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER 1: I signed for the, this company that side, you got to get my autograph. So the landscape I, I think that landscape has changed from, from how it used to be. But like you said, I, I think you make a great point if, if the companies are wary of that, especially, like you said, the big boys.

SPEAKER 1: I think it'll, it'll be good in the long run if they keep that in mind rather than just kind of try to cash in early, and often and, you know, it, it would be interesting, to see but, you know, I feel bad for that.

SPEAKER 1: You know, obviously we know it's not all little kids at sporting events, you see adults with books and, and pulling out cards, but for that little kid that really just wants that autograph because he really likes that player. That's who I feel for that might not now be able to get that.

SPEAKER 1: But at the same time, you know, hopefully there's a product, affordable to him too where you can potentially get that same athlete here at Myers. But it's a different, you know, I'm the old man on the porch too, so it's definitely a different landscape.

SPEAKER 1: And, and that's what happens, right? As, as time goes on things, things change and we have to adapt and change along with or, or we become the old man on the porch for, for real rather than just an an expression. So, you guys are, are, are always at the National.

SPEAKER 1: I'm assuming you, you'll be there here in Cleveland, talk about kind of, you know, your thoughts on the National and, and what it means to your company getting out there. How, how important is it for Onyx to, to be there?

SPEAKER 3: No, I think it's, it's the Nashville is great, right? Every everyone's there. I mean, the one in Chicago this past year was, was insane. Y you know, bringing in the comics and, you know, some of the Pokemon and some of the other stuff, I didn't even realize the Convention Center in Chicago got to be that big.

SPEAKER 3: So I got lost in there. It was, it was pretty impressive.

SPEAKER 1: But, don't feel, don't feel bad, don't feel bad. I just, I, I even asked people like, hey, how do you get out of here? I remember asking that I had to meet somebody and I, I was like, going in circles, I'm like, I wanna be late.

SPEAKER 1: It was crazy.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, it was, it was, there was so many different entry points too. So, you know, the National is important if, if you've never been to one, I highly advise going to one, especially if it's Chicago. Chicago is always a really good event.

SPEAKER 3: You know, it gives us a chance to get in front of, you know, the collectors and talk about things, talk about how we can be better, what we can do different, you know what they like, what they don't like and taking that constructive feedback and, and, you know, making our next product even better than what it was before.

SPEAKER 3: You know, we do the free box break case break at the, the main pavilion there. And, you know, every year I always ask people, you know, how many of you heard of Onyx? And it was one of the first year that we did it. I think two hands went up and, you know, and I'm like, well, that's why we're here. That's why we do this. Right. Is so that, you know, who we are and now almost every hand goes up, which is cool.

SPEAKER 3: But, you know, it shows us that we're, we're doing some good things out there and, you know, hobby still for the kids. Anytime we see kids we try to give them free cards and, you know, have them up about the hobby.

SPEAKER 3: We deal, you know, some of these and some of these little 10 year olds or 12 year olds will come by with their, their stack of cards and, want to wheel and deal. And, man, they were better than I ever was at that age. So it's, it's always impressive to see and meet all the different collectors of every age.

SPEAKER 3: And so that's what we always look forward to is, just meeting with everyone giving away some free stuff and talking about the company and what we're gonna be doing next and, and, you know, John, we're always trying to do different things and, you know, even what we're doing in the spring is, is gonna be more engaging.

SPEAKER 3: The point you made earlier about how you go to the ballpark now and it's getting a little bit tougher to get the autograph because the guys are burned out or they don't have time or, you know, whatever the case may be and, you know, we don't want to ever lose that essence of the interaction or engagement of the player.

SPEAKER 3: And what we're trying to do is that we're trying to bring more of that to the collector of that behind the scenes. And that's what we're gonna be doing in the spring. And you know, we man, we, we want people to say, you know, can you do this kind of inscription real time?

SPEAKER 3: You know, this is a live stream and the person signing and they're like, hey, you know, can you, can you do this subscription, you know, again trying to keep the family show and professional, but you know, absolutely.

SPEAKER 3: And it's that engagement and that like, oh my God, he just signed a card and this product that's, you know, I gave him the idea that keeps the exciting going. And so, you know, that's what we want to keep doing and, you know, grow the hobby, right? Gotta grow this thing. So it never dies.

SPEAKER 1: Out no great point, right? And, and you know, you, you mentioned that about someone like, hey, can you sign it like that? Now, you gotta go out and find when that car gets pulled, you gotta buy that car because that was right. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's the bound, that's the bounty and the chase.

SPEAKER 1: But I believe that's how I found out about Onyx was at a National, I think, you know, like you said, I call it the Super bowl of the Hobby Lance. And I think you, you know, you're not gonna get that many people from the hobby in one room at the same time for a week.

SPEAKER 1: And so it's great exposure for whatever, kind of hobby company. You, you run or, or are in charge of. And so, a and it's nice to hear you say, hey, we listen to feedback. What do you want to see? What do you don't wanna see or what can we do better, sort of thing?

SPEAKER 1: You know, I think if more companies kind of took that approach, they'd be better off, for, it's nice to hear you, take that, that line and, and, and whatnot. So I look forward to seeing you here in, you know, 34 months, you know, four or five months in, in, in Cleveland.

SPEAKER 1: I've never been to Cleveland at all. Let alone for a National. So, I'm looking forward to that, I'm gonna come in a day early. I'm a big music guy. So we'll, we'll make a day at the, the rock and roll Hall Of Fame and check that one off the, the bucket list, as well.

SPEAKER 1: But, look forward to seeing you in, in person there. I always give the guest kinda the final word, anything you want to share socials website stuff coming down the line, whatever you want to put out there, take your time, give that stuff out.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. No, I appreciate it, John. I know this isn't gonna broadcast until after, or I think March 15th.

SPEAKER 3: You know, we've got this big event that we're doing this spring. March 2nd and third, with partnership with ebay. So it's not like, you know, the Onyx Store. This is actually with Ebay Live.

SPEAKER 3: They're, they're making a big marketing push on this thing, but it's, it, you know, a again, it's, you know, the date will pass by Thomas Hare. But, you know, the important thing that I want people to actually hear is again, the engagement that we're gonna be doing now and we're hoping to do more of these events in the future, whether it's at the Futures game, you know, Arizona Fall League, things like that.

SPEAKER 3: But we just, we wanna get more engagement, we wanna get people involved with the hobby. So it'll be, you know, even more than just collecting, but getting to know players, getting to know a different side of the player and seeing, you know, the human side of, of what they do.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, that that's exciting but, you know, if you want to check us out, you know, please check out, I think we're on Twitter or X, under Onyx underscore Authentic. So please follow us, we put a lot of cool stuff out there and a lot of events that we're gonna be doing.

SPEAKER 3: It's the best way to keep in touch with us and then, our website is Onyx Authenticated.Com. So, we, our store needs a little work on it, so we'll get more and more stuff up there. But, there are some things up there. If you're interested in collecting autographed memorabilia, we do have some things for sale there. So, so, yeah, so, just kind of follow us and be prepared for some cool stuff.

SPEAKER 1: That's awesome. It's, it's nice to hear you talk about events where people can be engaged, right? I think when with, with those kind of things, you feel like you're more part of the hobby that you're in that, that's only a positive, there's nothing bad about that, whatsoever I think, more people should, should try that angle or, or try to be like that.

SPEAKER 1: That's, that's the big thing sometimes with becoming too big of a company. Sometimes you may lose, sight of that, you know, you guys obviously, haven't lost sight of that and that's, that's refreshing. So, keep up what you do. You don't need to tell me to tell you lad, but keep up the, the great work and, and, and the, you know, the great way you do things and, again, looking forward to seeing you, soon.

SPEAKER 3: Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate, again having us on today.

SPEAKER 1: No, no problem. Thank you. We'll, we'll have you back too. As long as you come back. So fantastic. All right, awesome. Finally getting to catch up with Lance, that guy is dedicated, persistent and he's built Onyx. I know again, I know they're a small company but they do things probably better than some big companies do. Right with the on card, autos.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, always at the National, got some great products and, take a look at, what they offer. They're, you know, Lance is a real big sports guy. He know he's a collector and he, he comes from that collector's mindset. So, check out Onyx and, and what they're doing. All right, we're gonna get to our hobby as the people announcer of the week, some closing thoughts and wrap up this episode.

SPEAKER 6: Time for our hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 7: Hi, this is Danny Bla with Baltimore sports collectibles. And I love what I do because the hobby is the people, if.

SPEAKER 6: You'd like to be the hobby is the people announcer of the week, do a WAV or MP3 file and send it to Sports Card Nation PC at gmail.com.

SPEAKER 8: That's a wrap for this week. Huge. Thanks to you, the listeners out there because without you, there is no ice.

SPEAKER 8: If you like the show, we truly appreciate positive reviews, big ups to our great guests who drive the show and our awesome sponsors who make it all possible. Sports card nation will be back next week but don't forget to catch either hobby quick hits or Cod mens coming up on Monday.

SPEAKER 8: I'll leave you with this.

SPEAKER 8: How do we change the world?

SPEAKER 8: One random act of kindness at a time.

SPEAKER 8: Remember the hobby is the People.

SPEAKER 9: Iron Sports Cards is your number one source for all your PS A and other grading submissions. Their elite status improves turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers. Their chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions.

SPEAKER 9: They also offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases. Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sports Cards Group or on the web at Irons Sports cards.com or even give them a call at 1877 Ironps A Rob's got you covered.

SPEAKER 10: For nearly 50 years. Sports collectors Digest has been the voice of the hobby. Bringing you comprehensive coverage of the sports collectible industry from industry news, auction results, market analysis and in depth stories about collectors and their collections. Sports collectors digest has everything you need to know about the hobby.

SPEAKER 10: S CD. Also your leading source for listings of sports collectible dealers, card shops, card shows and the latest from the industry's top companies to check out all the latest news or to subscribe to the hobby's oldest magazine. Visit sports collectors, digest.com or call 1 808 29 55 61.