Ep.268 w/ Chris Carlin of Collectors

SPEAKER 1: What is up everybody? Episode 268. Got a friend and a great guest on today's show.

SPEAKER 1: Hasn't been on the show since he's changed. Workplaces. Used to be at Upper Deck now, at collectors you might know who I'm talking about but, a great, great individual, great for the Hobby. Great human being.

SPEAKER 1: Chris Carlin and I've known him for years and, we're gonna catch up, kind of learn what, you know, how and why that move happened and what he's doing in his new role and chop up a little Hobby.

SPEAKER 1: You know, not working for a car manufacturer now, it can kind of be a little more candid with what's going on, in the Hobby if you will. So, always glad to have Chris on the show. And, like you said, it's been, been over a year and, hasn't been on since, he made that, transition to collector. So we're gonna learn all about that.

SPEAKER 2: And more Hobby News daily is your home page, the Hobby providing original writing, exclusive gem rate data. A daily morning minute podcast and some of the best content creators in the Hobby. Remember? Hobby News, daily.com and at Hobby News Daily on social, happy collecting.

SPEAKER 1: Always happy to have the next gentleman on the, the sports card shop, guest line, here at Sports Card Nation. He's been here, numerous times before but this is the first time, with his new role at, but, I don't wanna make him wait. Mr Chris Carlin of Collectors, director of, of customer care, formerly of Upper Deck and, and we'll talk about that, but welcome Chris John.

SPEAKER 3: It is so good to see you, my friend. Happy New Year.

SPEAKER 3: It feels like, feels like it's been years since we've done this, but it, it's like getting on a bike. We'll be just fine.

SPEAKER 1: Right.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I don't think it, it, it might be a little over a year but not years thankfully and, and we, we shouldn't wait that long to, to do it again as well. Ha Happy New Year.

SPEAKER 1: You know, let's start off with, with the, the, you know, you were at Upper Deck AAA long time. How many years were, were you there?

SPEAKER 3: I was at a for 24 years.

SPEAKER 3: So a lot of different things over the years.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I've been married 25 so I know how long 24 is when I kind of put them up next to each other. I I know you're a modest and humble guy. So I'll say this, I, I know you probably wouldn't say this necessarily yourself.

SPEAKER 1: Whether you realize, like to me, you were the face of that company and, and for much of that time, you, you know, you thought Upper Deck, you thought Chris Carlin, you did such a great job sort of being, the front man, you know, like to use a band, analogy.

SPEAKER 1: How tough was it? You know, like you said, being there that long, how difficult was it to, you know, you, you do anything for that long? You get very comfortable and familiar. How tough was it to take on a new challenge?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, John, it was really tough. Ii I still love that brand. You know, I, I grew up with the green diamond being the the most premium cards there were and to have the opportunity to work for that brand. Let alone for 24 years was a childhood dream true.

SPEAKER 3: And the people I worked alongside were absolutely some of the most talented people I've ever had the privilege of knowing. So many have gone on to do other things. Some are still there making moves and, and doing some awesome stuff as well.

SPEAKER 3: It was very difficult but I had a really weird situation where at that particular time I just lost my brother and he had worked in in the sports business for just as long as I had. In fact, he was an inspiration to me to even get into, to sports.

SPEAKER 3: And he worked, at ESPN, he worked at up close, he worked at Best Damn Sports Show and then, and up on Jimmy Kimmel Live and just working with a lot of different celebrities and athletes. And after he passed of, of A LS, we had a lot of collectibles and memorabilia that didn't have any type of authenticity.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I didn't know what was real or fake and a lot of artwork, a lot of different types of collectibles and obviously we kept a lot of things in the family. But, I counseled my father, you know, I, I think we should find out what's real, what's not things along those lines. So, without thinking, I just, I, I just, he said you're in charge of all this.

SPEAKER 3: So I reached out to my friend Steve Salone at the time was, was the president of, of collectors or PS A. And, said, hey, I gotta run some stuff through. So he was very accommodating. And, I worked with one of their sales reps to get the memorabilia in. And then I was like, I gotta, I think there's some things my dad wants to sell.

SPEAKER 3: We're gonna try to use some things for charitable purposes and, and to help cover you know, some of the, the cost of his care and what we found was that, you know, it was, I was like, I'm gonna sell the gold and not even realizing at the time that collectors and, you know, it was all under one family of brands.

SPEAKER 3: And so Steve shared with me, hey, there's, there's an opportunity in customer care. And I said, you know what, I'm, I'm really happy where I'm at. I, I appreciate the offer but, you know, this is kind of home for me and he said, would you just listen, would you just listen? So, it was really, it was really interesting. I, I go, I'll do it, I'll, I'll listen to these interviews. And I'll do the interviews.

SPEAKER 3: They had three interviews lined up for me and I said I just want to do them on one day. So they set it up where I'm meeting with all these people on, on one specific day and it was a day I took off to, to set up the estate sale for my, my brother.

SPEAKER 3: And so I was putting out, you know, different items and clothes and things like that and then running in for an interview.

SPEAKER 3: And it was really kind of cool because I, I had known a lot of folks at PS A over the years and had always been impressed by people like Jackie Curiel and Kevin Linane and, of course, Nat Turner. So to, to, to start jumping on interviews with some of these folks, I was a little bit Starstruck Hobby. Hobby. Starstruck. Is that a thing?

SPEAKER 3: Myself? And, you know, I, I listened to, to what they were saying and, and the vision for the company and, how they planned to, to really scale the operation.

SPEAKER 3: And it was, it was AAA pretty cool story to tell. And, and for me, I, I knew so much about Upper Deck but there was so much of the Hobby that I never really understood or, or had the chance to really get the weeds on.

SPEAKER 3: And, it just seemed like an incredible opportunity, especially one of the, the, the next games that people on this podcast might not know is, Steph Saban and she is the, the first female president for, for PC GS. Now PC GS, does all the coin and banknote grading. But, I was really impressed with, with her in my interviews and, and she's someone who's been like a personal inspiration to me since I've been there.

SPEAKER 3: So, with all that Hobby, firepower and all those, those impressive folks that I was, talking with, when I got the offer, you know, you do the, the Pros and Cons List. And, it was, it was, it was tight, like it was really, a tricky one. But, at the end of the day.

SPEAKER 3: It kind of felt like my brother led me there by working in Santa Ana. I'm, I'm spending more time with my folks and I knew I would get the opportunity to do that and both my parents are still with me. And it's it's, it's something really important.

SPEAKER 3: So I'm driving up tomorrow from San Diego, but I'll be spending the night with my parents and that's just really kind of a, a cool gift. And so in a really weird way, John, it, it, it feels like my brother pushed me here and brought me here and, and I've learned so much since I've been here.

SPEAKER 3: It's been, really eye opening and, and so much fun. And as, as highly as I thought of the Upper Deck staff that I worked with this collector's team is, is just next level. Like it, it is, it is really, really special to be here at this time, with all the things that they're doing.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, a little, a little serendipity there, like you said, that it almost felt like your brother kind of, in, in, you know, a cosmic sort of way pushed you there. I wanna speak, a little bit about you and I never met him, but I almost felt like I have, through, you know, you talking about him.

SPEAKER 1: I know we did some stuff with, with Hobby hotline and, to raise money for a LS, obviously a terrible disease that, we wish, you know, no one, gets and, and hopefully someday they can find, a cure and, and make more progress.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, you putting it out and that, and that's tough when, you know, you know, your brother is afflicted with that, we know, you know, unfortunately what happens, in, in the end and, you know, but you, you to, to go out there and, and sort of kind of lead that charge and like I said, I never met John, but I felt like through you and your stories about him, I felt like I had and learned how what a great guy he was.

SPEAKER 1: And so, you know, I'm sure he's missed but you know, you, he, he lives on even like you said, through you and inspiring you and, and, and now with your move to collectors, which you, you, you feel like you sort of giving you a little push from behind you know, any kind of thought, you know, I, I don't want to do all the talking but no, no, like you're, you're, you're so right.

SPEAKER 3: It's Upper Deck was really incredible and gracious to me through that whole situation.

SPEAKER 3: They allowed me to make a, a trading card of him.

SPEAKER 3: And I had done a lot of these goodwill campaigns at Upper Deck over the years, going back to 2016 when we did a card for Jack Hoffman, the youngster with pediatric brain cancer, who, who ran a touchdown in the Nebraska Spring game. And we just, they, they gave me the freedom to keep doing that. And, I always shared, you know, this is my passion project.

SPEAKER 3: I'll, I'll do this on nights and weekends and, and my wife was totally cool with that. And, I focused during the day on, hey, I gotta get back to these customers or I gotta take care of this event or what have you. But, on nights and weekends, that was kind of my time to, to work on those stories and work on those cards.

SPEAKER 3: And, you know, you and I have always felt like there's a lot more positive stories out there in the Hobby than the negatives. Obviously, the more salacious stories get a lot more headlines. But, I don't care. I, I think that it starts one card at a time. I think every, you know, young kid who has a, a cool story to tell can, is, is card worthy, you know, so not just because they're the hottest nil prospect.

SPEAKER 3: So, what was interesting about my brother's card? Is he actually, you know, we work with the, the, the person on their, on their trading card, on the back of his, he put a prayer, you know, that he would say every morning when he woke up and it was just kind of encouragement to keep going and keep persevering and that, you know, God has a plan for him.

SPEAKER 3: So, he inadvertently made the, made the first Upper Deck prayer card, I guess, by doing that. So that was kind of cool. But again, I'm, I'm just so appreciative of Upper Deck for allowing me to, to, you know, of course, I'd make promotional sets and things along those lines.

SPEAKER 3: But those heroic inspirations cards, we always a passion project of mine or the, the Indigenous Rookies program that we did towards the tail end of my career. There was, was a real positive one that I just loved being a part of. So, I love that they do that and it shows I always believe that if if you know, I'm, I'm closer to brands that care.

SPEAKER 3: And and I feel the better I feel about a brand, the more apt I am to be loyal to them. So, I definitely saw value in that and, and I think that that was really cool to be a part of.

SPEAKER 1: And I wanna give you definitely some credit here.

SPEAKER 1: You, you touched on a lot of those projects even I can tell you firsthand. It's not a secret, you know I posted, when my dog passed, away some years back, that poster, you, you know, you had a poster, a picture of me with, my dog Moa and that still hangs on the wall.

SPEAKER 1: She has a little corner where her ashes are in the poster above that. And, you know, getting that, you know, choke me up. You know, not just Upper Deck but Chris Carlin is someone who cares, right? Anyone that knows you, knows your heart, knows what you're about.

SPEAKER 1: I think Upper Deck probably, takes more of a lead from you than maybe the other way around or. Well, it was mutual, you know what I mean? It was, it was both mutual but, you know, it was, it, you guys did something different there than, you know, a lot of other companies could have done more of or took a page, from your books and, and, you led by example and, numerous things.

SPEAKER 1: I mean, you, you, you mentioned some of them but even, even more than, than you mentioned.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, when I heard you were going, to collectors, I mean, what of the, you know, in the conversations I had with, with Hobby folks or Hobby friends, I'm like, they're getting, they're getting one of the greatest guys who cares like, you know. And, no, it's true. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a lip service guy. Like, if I didn't think that I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER 3: But I just believe that you've got to, you've got to look at what your customers are saying and what they're doing and what's a, important to them and to really know them. You know, we, we build relationships in the Hobby whether we realize it or not.

SPEAKER 3: And then when I was young, I didn't, I didn't think I was building these relationships. And then I saw a lot of dealers last week that I've known for, you know, 2530 years. And, they, they've become so incredibly special to me and II, I never kind of sneaks up on you, I guess as you get a little older.

SPEAKER 3: But, the, the thing we did for, for you and Moa was just, from a tip I got, from a gentleman named Jeff Rosenberg, who said, just, he's a apr guy out of New York, but he said do the right thing and let the brand go along for the ride and we do things because we care and because we think our customers are valuable and worthwhile and, worth engaging with, but don't do it to try to get some headline or something like that, just do the right thing.

SPEAKER 3: And if some comes from that then great. If not, you did the right thing, right. So, that, that's kind of the part way I've always thought of that type of work.

SPEAKER 1: Well, you, you, you know, no one can do it better, you know, the, the best they can do is tell you Chris. And if, if that, and, you know, attending some of those PS A collectors events since you moved there, seeing firsthand at, at those events, right. Work in the room come, I, I had a conversation, you know, you asked me, hey, what could we do better?

SPEAKER 1: What do you want to see? You know, and I, I mentioned a couple of things but you asked everybody that and that's what I appreciate about you. And it's, it's, again, it's when I heard you were going there, I knew what they were gonna get and I hope they realize that I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER 1: Now that you're, you're someone who cares, you know, your work ethic speaks for itself but, you know, I, I knew, you know, seeing you at an event and, and talking to people. I mean, I, I wasn't surprised because I know that's how you operate and, and who you are. But, you know, every time I see that I just say, man, if we need more, you know, more folks like Chris, there's not, there's not enough.

SPEAKER 1: I'm, I'm not saying you're the only one but we need, we need more, we need more of that, right? People who care, build those relationships and, and wanna make, you know, the company they work for the best, the best it can be. So, you know, I, I can tell you seeing you in action firsthand, that's, that's who you are.

SPEAKER 1: It's not for show. It's, it's real, like you said, you don't do it necessarily for the pub, you just do it because it's, it's the right thing. And, I think anyone that knows, knows you in the way that I do can, can attest.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, I, I guess I'll ask you now, you know, being there now, sometime, you know what, you kind of thought, I, I know you were impressed, like you said, with those, that gauntlet of interviews, that you, you took and now being there sometime, you know, your, your thoughts, I, I know you, before we hit record, you said you're like, you're learning a lot of stuff a across the board and, and kind of speak to, to that.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, it's, it's been amazing and, and, and one thing, you know, the reason why I asked those questions is, you know, what, what can we do better at? What are your pain points right now? I mean, my, my boss will often say, you know, what's, what's the stone in our customer's shoe? And, and how do we get better?

SPEAKER 3: And it's at this company like like no other, there is a tireless pursuit for, we know we can't get perfection, but as close as, as we can get. And our mission statement is pretty simple, make collecting, safe, easy and fun. And it's not fun when you can't fill out a submission form or it's not fun when you don't understand perhaps declared values or, or what service level you should put things in, in that.

SPEAKER 3: So it's really critical that our team are are friendly, are helpful, are trained and can be as, as good as we want them, you know, as good as we can hope them to be. And and that's really critical. So, for me, you know, being there for a little bit, 01 thing I was impressed with from the beginning was the, the leadership team I had inherited in customer care.

SPEAKER 3: A lot of folks who maybe had worked in different departments who had been in customer care for a long time who had seen a lot and just were always a little frustrated with that, you know, that they couldn't get the, the squeaky wheel, the oil for the squeaky wheel.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, I, I was brought on a bit to be a bit of a disruptor too, you know, to, to say here's, here's our problems, you know, we're, we're the eyes and ears of the company and, and we need to do a better job of identifying some of the, the things that are pain points for our customers. So, we do that. I actually send out a daily message to our president or chief operating officer and all our product and tech folks on.

SPEAKER 3: Here's what we're seeing, here's, you know, here's what we're noticing out there. And, and we have a lot of rifts off some of those, you know, with regard to. All right, what, what can we do for a fix for this? And it's a lot of fine tuning to, to make the customer experience as good as it can be. But but that's been pretty awesome. And the main thing I guess that that blew me away.

SPEAKER 3: John is, is I hadn't done a lot of grading before I came to collectors. I I knew about it but I had all these preconceived notions, right that every collector has, if they've never submitted anything to a grading service before, you know, do they control the population reports or does a grader know that I'm who I am?

SPEAKER 3: And they're gonna give this dealer a better grade, you know, all these, all these things and what I found was that PS A in particular, the graders are frighteningly accurate with their, with your accurate accuracy. They are category experts with regard to authenticity and especially with autographs, like some of our authenticators. Wow, that Hevin Keating in particular is just next level.

SPEAKER 3: But they're almost basically forensic experts, you know. So I was really, really, really blown away by the expertise and, and how they determine things, you know, an item might be fake or, or real and all the library of items that they viewed over the years and exemplars that they use.

SPEAKER 3: So, and now with the direction that Nat Turner has taken things is just a lot more, you know, enhancements to the, the online experience, not only for the customer but on the, the back end as well. So, he's, he's invested in a better CRM solution for us and other things as well. But but that, that's a customer relationship management, sorry, too many acronyms for people playing at home.

SPEAKER 3: But but different, a new phone system, you know, and things along those lines that and, and more than anything people, I love the fact that, you know, when you call PS A, you're talking to a person, when you go to an event, you can talk to a PS A representative when you fill out our, our form online, you know, it's being answered by a human being.

SPEAKER 3: So, there's gonna be a need for us to start having more self-service options for customers and, and maybe bring on chat bots. But, but I promise we'll do it in a way that's responsible and, and meaningful and, and primarily it's, it's due to the fact that we're not just a company in the United States anymore. We are a global company.

SPEAKER 3: We have submission offices all over Europe and across, you know, Japan's Japan is a full service office now and, and headquarters and we have offices all over the place. So, and that's not gonna slow down. So you need to have some of these customer care solutions that are always on and can speak any language and, and and that's important.

SPEAKER 3: But heck even having, you know, so the, the company opened up an office in New Jersey and Tokyo in the same year, would be a herculean achievement for any other organization. But for, for us as collectors, it feels like, oh, it's a Tuesday, we gotta get this up and cook in and let's let's keep it going. So it is super fast paced. It's very exciting.

SPEAKER 3: But the overall thing that I've learned is the, the, the real desire to have a quality product and that is being the best authentication service most consistent. And, and I know there'll be someone who says, oh, Chris, I saw this scan, it's an eight and this scan it's a nine. You know, you, you've got to look at cards.

SPEAKER 3: The major thing I've learned is you got to look at things in hand to really get a good feel for, for the item. And and if there's issues with it and people forget too that, you know, grading is is something that, that is three dimensional. And you know, if you're just looking at an image here on ebay and why did mine get this? You know, you're missing a lot.

SPEAKER 3: I can say that for sure because I've the the best investment I've made John is, is a little grading light, you know, you can buy them for Amazon for 35 bucks a light with magnification. And I sit in the dark room before I do submissions.

SPEAKER 3: I took, took me about three submissions to realize, hey, maybe I better look at these a little more before I just send them in and, you know, you learn the techniques and usually, you know, obviously it's not gonna be hard to spot centering or is the corner of a ding on it or how do the edges look? Are they rough or are they good? A lot of the things that people, people miss are either a on the surface.

SPEAKER 3: You know, maybe there's a, a thumb Mark or, or some, some type of indentation or surface scratch or or crease, you know, often there's creases, especially around die cut cards, patches, memorabilia cards, things like that or there might be something on the sides. So you know, or a or a lift that's happening with the thicker card.

SPEAKER 3: So you've really got to look at, not just the front and back but what's going on with the sides too. So, it's a little bit of everything and coins in particular, the, the sides of the is, is definitely a, a much bigger thing than, than we see on cards. But it's, there are three sides to a coin. That's what I've learned here. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: And, and, you know, I, I, you know, people like to point out the mistakes that, that sometimes happen. But, you know, we also have to remember there's the, the human element, to it.

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SPEAKER 7: Sports Car Nation has returned.

SPEAKER 1: I'd be remiss if I did. You know, if I didn't ask you, you know, the people who listen to the show would, would not be happy.

SPEAKER 1: You know, we see a, I, not just in the, in the, in the Hobby industry, but just across the board, A I has become a, a, you know, being in the forefront and we're seeing more of it, you know, for what you can talk about, you know, what's a, I, what's a, I's role gonna be with, PS A, you know, now and then going forward and anything else that you're allowed to share, like that might be new and maybe a new holder coming a new flip, whatever might be coming down the turnpike that you can, can talk about.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, obviously A I is the, the buzzword that everyone's talking about these days. PS A was, was one of the first companies to invest in a company called gentleman that that, that did that.

SPEAKER 3: And we have done, made a lot of strides with regard to A I and grading and image recognition.

SPEAKER 3: Since then, I would highly recommend that if you are enjoy collecting and, and wanna know more about some of these things. Follow Dan Van Tran on linkedin. He's our chief CTO. And so he has a tremendous amount of posts about, you know, in the interviews that he does with regard to what we're doing with image recognition and, and some of the things upcoming.

SPEAKER 3: But you know, the thing that, that I think makes Nat's ownership of this company special is his infinite emphasis on providing an online experience like no other. So we just deployed a new online submission center that is vastly superior to the old one and, and vastly superior to pretty much anything in the industry.

SPEAKER 3: And so I, I think that is, that is really, really cool and, and, and it makes, it actually makes filling out submission forms kind of fun because you see images pop up and, and things along those lines.

SPEAKER 3: So he's done, the team has done a lot to simplify the process and make it easier because there are a lot of services we provide and there are a lot of questions about, you know, which, which service level should I put this in or what should I declare the value at things along those lines?

SPEAKER 3: And you know, the basic rule of thumb is, you know, you wanna make sure that you're covered in the, in the instance that that something something happens, right? Maybe it's lost in the mail or it's, it's damaged during holding very rare that happens especially now.

SPEAKER 3: But, you know, it's a way to cover yourself. So, but getting back to your initial question on A I, it's, it's definitely something people are gonna be seeing a lot more of. It's, it's part of our mission or one of our collectors values, which is getting it right?

SPEAKER 3: That is so, so important and, and people should know that if, if more than anything. The PS A has this grade guarantee and PS A not only has a guarantee but they pay out on this guarantee.

SPEAKER 3: And I've seen some of the checks that NATS had to write about that because it covers, you know, the whole history of PS A collectibles. And, and if there's an issue where maybe a card was undergrad or over graded trust and believe we go back and talk to the grading team about it and, and make sure that those are coachable moments.

SPEAKER 3: But, but we are pretty dang good at, at getting it right and, and having a accuracy across, the variety of levels. Like I've seen graders go through a variety of graders go through and it is crazy how they all come up with the same outcome and it's, it reminds me John, remember those, those pictures in the eighties where you had to stare at a little while and the picture would show up, you know?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of how their eyes work, you know, like they're just different, you know. So, I always said my wife would make a great grader because she's really good at finding faults with me.

SPEAKER 1: But yeah, my wife, my wife too.

SPEAKER 3: I think we have just, just looking at the card.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt that, that's funny because I gotta ask you, you know, when, when you were at Upper Deck too, you were in the Hobby at a time period where we saw, you know, Upper Deck was making more than hockey cards. We had multiple companies and brands, you know, covering multi sports that, that sort of has gone away, do you know?

SPEAKER 1: And not, not just recently, but now you have fanatics which you here in a few years are gonna have 75% of the, you know, what we'll call the big four sports, Upper Deck thankfully is retaining hockey. Just someone like myself who has seen.

SPEAKER 3: Golf and a butch.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, but someone who's seen, you know, a, a time period in the Hobby where multiple companies were doing multiple sports and that's not going to be exactly the same kind of your thoughts on, on that terrain and landscape being different than, than it used to be.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I, I worked at Upper Deck in, in time periods where Upper Deck had every license, including yu yo and some others and, my recommendation for the, the good folks at fanatics who are good folks is best of luck. It's, it's very hard, it's very hard to, give everything the same amount of attention to give, every license the, the respect it deserves.

SPEAKER 3: And the, the attention, and the quality, so you really gotta have experts for each of those licenses and they have to be passionate and believe in it and, and make the case for it because you know, there's, you've got to hit certain margins for the leagues and for the company, to even make a product.

SPEAKER 3: So, we always believed in a predict that every brand had to have a reason for being. And sometimes lately it feels like, it's just, I've seen this, this release before with 13 different names and how many parallels do we need. So, it's, it's, it's something that I, what I really appreciate is when companies are innovative.

SPEAKER 3: So, I love the, the debut patches that they've done. I think that's awesome. And it gets people talking the, the what if cards or, or something that has kind of always been done, you know, I've, I've, I, I've seen the, one of the cards I love that I predicted was a lebron James in a football uniform, you know, and they would, did signed versions of those.

SPEAKER 3: So there's those types of things that have lasted for a while, but they do a really good job of promoting those and getting mainstream attention to those.

SPEAKER 3: And what they did with that Tom Brady Card was, was crazy. But I think it's really funny that that particular product is so prospect driven that I wonder if people know, like for that product, like you have to kind of put about 95% of those cards away for a couple of years and then go back to them and say, hey, did this guy hit?

SPEAKER 3: Did that guy hit? Oh, what do I got here? You know. So, it's, it's like a secondary box opening experience but you gotta wait a couple of years for, for some of those guys. So, I have tremendous amount of respect for what they've been able to do so far.

SPEAKER 3: And, and it's, it's, it's not easy, it's, it's just not easy to have every license and be able to represent them in the best possible way. It, it's, it's just, it's just really hard to do for one company. So again, wishing them nothing but the best because I, I wanna see a lot of those cards coming into PS A.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt. You know, I'm old school Chris. You know, growing up to in, in that era where we started to see the don versus flare score upper decks come along, I think when you have multiple companies like that, right? It fuels the competition, right? Companies were forced like, hey, we, we have three other companies breathing down our neck.

SPEAKER 1: We have to come up with, like you said, innovation. We've got to stay ahead of the curve. We gotta do something that someone else isn't doing or hasn't thought of. Yeah, Pacific including Mike. You know, Mike Kramer came up with some crazy stuff that still lives on today.

SPEAKER 1: I just wrote a piece about it, but I guess my fear but my fear, but my fear is sometimes when you don't have that competition pushing you, you know, maybe you get a little complacent or you sit on your hands or, hey, we're there, you know, we don't, you know, we're, we're the only game in town sort of thing.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I, I've, I've heard that II, I disagree with some of that. I mean, let me some examples, are that, you know, when some examples that are four exclusives are obviously, you know, when there are, when there are, release dates, you know, Upper Deck foot baseball used to come out very close to top baseball and they cannibalized each other and it made it harder for the, the shops to sell those.

SPEAKER 3: When there's one manufacturer, you can really do a, a nice cadence of products that starts generally from low end and you kind of work your way up to the more premium releases towards the end of the season.

SPEAKER 3: And I think that works really good.

SPEAKER 3: So, but I understand what you mean about the competition.

SPEAKER 3: The other thing that people don't think about are, the people that make a lot of money in this industry that are, are seldom discussed is the, the agents and athletes they love nothing more than they're being more than one licensor for, for a league because they could say, well tops is gonna pay me this but Upper Deck is gonna pay me this and they just drive the, the prices on, on cig rates up, up, up.

SPEAKER 3: So, so there's, there's some things that I, I think collectors don't think about there now with regard to that, competition and, you've gotta, you've gotta necessarily be in the same sport.

SPEAKER 3: I don't, I don't think that's true at all. I think if you look at a, a brand like leaf, for example, who makes cards of pretty much everything.

SPEAKER 3: They're trying Greg Conn and, Chris over there, they're trying to do pretty much everything they, they can to compete with, a top baseball release when they're coming out with some of their baseball products or, Upper Deck is trying to do, not trying to do, they do incredible things with Goodwin Champions, which is a multi sport product, but it, it is probably one of my favorite pack opening experiences in, in the Hobby with regard to just all the, the random product that that's in there, Grant Sand Ground, the director of product development, does an amazing job.

SPEAKER 3: Tony Ciani actually builds that product every year over there. Fantastic job with regard to and, and Grant's Grant's direction was always keep Goodwin Champions weird, like try things. Let's, and that's really the spirit of Upper Deck was innovation, you know. So, I think that that no trading card manufacturer rests on their Laurels.

SPEAKER 3: They're always trying to innovate. And even if Upper Deck doesn't have a license for NBA or if Panini doesn't have AAA golf product with Tiger Woods, you know, we're always, the manufacturers are always trying to one up each other and, and get headlines and come up with the, the next big thing and, and really what we've seen is, is the, the Hobby has scaled is it, can't just be another game use mem or another autograph hit.

SPEAKER 3: The Hobby needs things that are, that are technology driven to scale because I'll be frank with you. You know, athletes are not going to, they're already, there's a reason why there's redemptions, right? Like, they have to sign a lot of cards all ready.

SPEAKER 3: So, it's, it's one of those things where the industry is really gonna need to look at things outside of, the autograph card or outside of the memorabilia card, the standard memorabilia card, to keep it buzzy. One of the cool cards I saw last week at the upper X Certified Diamond Dealer conference was for, an, a UW set that they're doing.

SPEAKER 3: And what they were able to negotiate was, I guess the, the championship belt, they, they swap out the belt a couple of times a year because, you know, different people wear it and, you know, it, and it, it gets a lot of use. So, so they have Belt Relics. Championship belt relics that are gonna be inserted into new, a EW cards.

SPEAKER 3: It's like if you're a wrestling fan that is flipping cool because it's not like it's some slob who had the belt. Right. So, I love seeing that innovation and I think every manufacturer really pushes the envelope because even though they're not, maybe, you know, in the same sport they are still absolutely competing with each other.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No, I, I could see that but, you know, and, and you, you mentioned it and, and, and I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you, Chris, you know, some of the designs on, on, on, on Upper Deck hockey are just some of the best, in, in the industry.

SPEAKER 1: And I just, when I, when I see it or I'm open in it pack, I'm like, man, I'd love to see this in baseball and football, again too. And that, that's, I guess that's what I'm kind of saying. Now I know another company can kind of mimic that if you will or, or make it similar.

SPEAKER 1: So I'm not, I mean, not even, not even above board, you know, we know how that goes but when I see some of the stuff like Upper Deck does in hockey, II, I miss the days and, and you know, that you were there when you can not only do in hockey, but you can do in football and basketball and, and baseball and I, I miss, I miss those days when a company that was doing such a good job could do it across multi sports, fronts and, you know, I don't know if we'll ever really get exactly there again and, and maybe it's, you know, that's just the way it goes.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, as someone who's old and, and has lived through that, I miss those kind of days and, and, well.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, there, that's the fun part about this Hobby. You could still have that experience. I mean, I love following Matt Turner on Instagram because he's not opening up a lot of new stuff. He, he opens up that old stuff, you know, and, and he, kind of treasure hunts for some of it.

SPEAKER 3: But, but there's a lot of collectors like that out there. So, I've got a box of 2001 sp authentic golf that I've been been saving for a while. And I think I'm gonna open it up with my boys on my 50th birthday coming up later this year.

SPEAKER 3: But, yeah, III, I really appreciate some of those older, older products and, the good news is again, they're still out there and you can get singles or, even like the, the old Ovation, the base sets from Ovation baseball were always so beautiful. So, II, I feel you. I, I totally hear you.

SPEAKER 3: But, Panini's, Panini's done some really good things. I think fanatics is gonna really try to press the envelope and come up with some amazing things. We just gotta, you know, hang on for the ride and, and see how it all goes.

SPEAKER 3: But, you know, it goes back to that, that saying that so many of us in the Hobby use, collect what you like. You know, if, if, if you're getting slaughtered on boxes, just buy the card you like and send it on us to us and we'll, we'll slab it up for you. So, yeah, I think it's just a different strokes for different folks really.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt. And you well said, and it's true, right? You can, you know, I I've heard collectors say, hey, I, I collect what's already been printed already, you know, whether it be vintage or even even not vintage. But like you said, stuff that's stuff that's already exists that's still sealed.

SPEAKER 1: You mentioned with Nat and I've, I've seen him do that Chris when, you know, when I heard you were leaving, you know, Upper Deck to the head to collectors. You know, one of my fears when I first heard that was, you know, you're always were great at the National.

SPEAKER 1: One of my fears was like, is he gonna be able like, are we still gonna see Chris at the National? And if, if we don't, you know, like will it be in the same sort of capacity? Because you worked the floor. You're great with folks. And, you know, now I'm happy to say now, you, you, you're, you're still there.

SPEAKER 1: You still, we had a funny laugh last year when I had the card done and I, for, you know, I forgot to come back and grab it in a, in a timely manner and you, you kind of put the, the be on the lookout for, you know, pick up your card. Newman. It's, it's, I, I knew you'd be watching your Twitter. So, yeah, that was hilarious Twitter.

SPEAKER 3: Like get back here.

SPEAKER 3: I here.

SPEAKER 1: So yeah, people got a kick out of it too cause they said, hey, did you, did you pick up your card yet? Dude?

SPEAKER 1: And I'm like, yeah, so it was, it was funny. But, you know, again that's, that, that shows your personality. You're a fun guy. And you know, and I'm glad you're still in that capacity.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I, I love the National. It's it's something that I'm really excited about sharing with my kids one day. Like I, we've done some smaller shows.

SPEAKER 3: The one we love and it's a great show. If, if you're in southern California is the Long Beach Expo.

SPEAKER 3: A lot of it is coins and banknotes and things like that, but there are sports car dealers, there's Pokemon dealers.

SPEAKER 3: And it's a really good way to get cards rated pretty quickly, like you hand them to us and we co right to the office.

SPEAKER 3: So usually we run, run a variety of specials around that show. So, that happens three times a year. Long Beach Expo.com, definitely worth checking out. Good Trojan Horse way to, to get things through the PS A quickly.

SPEAKER 3: But the National has always held AAA special place in my heart because at, at Upper Deck we would be like, well, we could almost just turn the phones off because everyone who's gonna be calling is gonna be out there, you know. So, but I will say it's a, it's a drastically different experience working at PS A at the National than Upper Deck where, you know, people, people both bring us product, right?

SPEAKER 3: But at PS A, it is a lot more fast paced cause I'm not just getting an Upper Deck product. I'm getting Pokemon tops. Everything. One piece. Holy cow, one piece is, blowing up.

SPEAKER 3: So, it's, II I tell people, I, I felt like I was Sam alone at Upper Deck where I was, you know, had time to chit chat and, you know, things like that, those lines and, and here at PS A, it feels like I'm a bartender at college, you know, dollar beer night at the college, you know, it's just like go, go, go, go, go.

SPEAKER 3: But it's, it's always fun to I always try to, to slow up and, and, and make sure that I'm spending time with, with the folks who, who pay our paychecks, you know, and, if you're not listening to your collectors and you're not making them a priority and, and hearing out what, what hurts for them, then, then I don't think you, you should be in this industry really. But, it's an industry of passion.

SPEAKER 3: That's what makes it so great is, is I don't think, anyone who works at a card company or grading service is, is doing it to be average, they do it because they love it and they want their company to be perceived as highly as possible. And, and, it's a fun, fun industry to be in, in fact, John did, you know, I'm hiring shameless plug.

SPEAKER 3: We're doing a lot of hiring at collectors looking for great people looking for really solid people who, who love the Hobby, who are passionate about it. And if you're one of those folks definitely visit, collectors.com/careers, because we're, we're here in California, we're in New Jersey.

SPEAKER 3: Coming to Canada, we're in Japan. So, we wanna have the, the best working for us. And, and it's a fun, fun place to work.

SPEAKER 1: Well, if you open in central New York, I know, I know a guy. So, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, this is, you know, it's in Cleveland this year. It's, it's, it's back. I've never been to Cleveland period. The city, or the National. I know you've been to a, a Cleveland National for, for people like me who've been to the National, but maybe not the Cleveland National.

SPEAKER 1: You know, what can you say about that in comparison to, to other locals or venues?

SPEAKER 3: I would say it's 10 times less sketchy than Atlantic City.

SPEAKER 3: It's, it is a surprisingly fun city like fantastic city.

SPEAKER 3: The Indians games are amazing to go to. Downtown is fun. It's, it's pretty darn inexpensive, just going out to eat down there.

SPEAKER 3: And it's, it's just unexpected, I would say is how I feel about Cleveland. Like every time we, it's out there people kind of grumble and groan and then they come back with some of the best stories and, have had, having had so much fun. So the I A center is, is a big facility as well.

SPEAKER 3: And, I heard unfortunately they got rid of, I think they got rid of the, they used to have a merry go round that would go in there. But it was always kind of funny like we'd send new reps up there and, at the top of the merry go round, it, it really gets hot up there. So you tell the, tell the, operator, I'll give you a pack of cards just keep them up there for a little bit.

SPEAKER 3: But, that was the, that was the rookie hazing.

SPEAKER 3: But I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER 1: That's the hazing, the new employee hazing program.

SPEAKER 4: But that, that.

SPEAKER 3: Facility is awesome. It's, it's, you know, so easy for everyone to get to because it's so centralized. So, you see a lot more, different types of collectibles, I will say in, in, Cleveland than you would in Atlantic City. So that part is a, a huge positive for sure.

SPEAKER 1: For me, I it's nice, Chris because I, I'm five hours and 10 minutes from Syracuse to Cleveland. So I'll be able to drive and have my own vehicle with me to, like you said, maybe get to an Indian's game or get to an event that once the show is over.

SPEAKER 1: You know, the fun doesn't necessarily has to the stop and it's always nice when you travel right to have your own vehicle when it, when it's in Chicago, in Chicago, many will tell you it's like everyone's favorite, but it's just a little too far to drive. So I'll fly in and, you know, you gotta definitely stay close to the venue.

SPEAKER 1: So it's easy to, to get in and out. But, you know, driving, I'll be.

SPEAKER 3: Able, you know, one other thing I would say, John, one other Chris Carlin Tip where Cleveland is, there's only a few host hotels there. And, it is very common to, to have a drink at the bar that night and you might be sitting next to Joe Montana or Rick Flair or, you know, things like that, which is so cool. So, Bobby and Bravo, I sat with last time I was in Cleveland, so it was just kind of, kind of cool.

SPEAKER 3: So, a little surreal and it's not that far from, k so the, the Hall Of Fame game is usually right around that time too. It's the, the start of the football season. So, Cleveland should definitely be something that's on any serious collectors travel list for this year or if you've never done a National, it's a great inexpensive one to, to knock off your bucket list rather than, you know, Chicago is great.

SPEAKER 3: But Cleveland has always, always, always, for me, proven to be a AAA very solid show with incredible selections of items and, just always a lot of fun too.

SPEAKER 1: And I've already said this, on the program, I'm, I'm gonna come in a day earlier and, the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is there as well. I'm a big music guy. So, I've never been to the rock and roll hall, so I'm gonna come in a day earlier and, and scratch that one off the, the bucket list, A as well. So, you know, plenty to do and, and, and, and that's a nice thing.

SPEAKER 3: And you're, you're a member of our set registry. Ps, a set registry, right?

SPEAKER 3: So, we always have a dinner at the National last year's was, it was a much more elevated experience. And, and I know that we're looking to do something very elevated this year as well. So, set registry, if, if, you're a collector and not part of it, it's heck why am I talking about it? You tell, you tell the story, John, why do you like it?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I mean, it's just, I mean to even just, you know, you're, you're with people of the same milk that, that you know, that share the same passion you do and it's just amazing like, you know, just when you think you have a nice collect and then you see some of these other it it, it's humbling but like you said, it's, it's, and I said this on, on this podcast.

SPEAKER 1: You know, I always do kind of my review after, after the National and you know, you can go back in the archives, you guys put on a, a great event. It's, it's first class. It's well done.

SPEAKER 1: You know, I mentioned tonight and I mentioned even on that past that review show, like, you know, you especially, but everybody at, at collectors and, and PS A, work in the room talking to everybody, including everybody, asking them what they don't like what they do, like what can we do better? And that, that goes just to show you, you know, the, the quality of people, the quality, of event and, just, just well done.

SPEAKER 1: I look forward to it, you know, like the National itself, right? You, you, you make sure you don't schedule anything else that night cause you, you're, you're, you're going there and, I don't want to disappoint anyone else. Like, hey, I can't make it. So I don't commit until we know, when that event is. But looking, I would.

SPEAKER 3: Definitely recommend if you're, if you're a fan of, you know, collecting, you know, any type of single cards and, and slapping them up, get involved with the PS A set registry. It is, it is a really incredible group of collectors, who all kind of look out for each other.

SPEAKER 3: They all have each other's back. They all want to see each other's collections grow. If you collect, drummer cards from Star Wars, there will probably be someone there who keep an eye out for you and let you know when they see them. So it would no matter what, you know. So there's, it's, it's just.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, and that's the other thing too, Chris, you, you guys do a great job of encompassing different parts of the Hobby too.

SPEAKER 1: It, it doesn't have to necessarily just be, you know, the big four sports or, or what have you, you really sort of think outside the box and try to include, as, as, as much of the Hobby as you possibly can. And that's a.

SPEAKER 3: Lot of registering team job of creating sets for people to go after and, and just so people know, like it's not just, oh, I'm putting together the 1989 Upper Deck baseball set. It's, it's a variety of different sets that range from easy to very difficult.

SPEAKER 3: But people have, people have a ton of fun putting that together. And really, it's Jason Masa, the president of Upper Deck said something interesting last week at the Upper Deck conference that if the ex experience of opening, if the experience the consumer experience ends with opening a pack, then we've all failed.

SPEAKER 3: And what he means by that is there's, there's secondary experiences to be had from opening a pack of trading cards, whether it be trading with a friend or having it graded or putting the set together or auctioning off a one on one card and seeing what it goes for and and or passing it down, do a get signed and sent into PS A to be authenticated and slabs.

SPEAKER 3: So there's just so much that can happen after the pack has opened, that we're all responsible for, we're all stewards for, of this Hobby and that's what makes it so special.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No doubt. And I concur with, with that sentiment. Right. Doesn't have, it shouldn't end just there. I mean, that, that would be, no fun and, you know, that, that it needs to continue past that. And, you know, he, he's right on the money with that and the National, embodies that and, and epitomizes that, of that too.

SPEAKER 1: It's, we all look for, you know, it's that week every year. I, I call it the Super Bowl, of the Hobby. We circle. It's pretty much is very close to the same week every year. And so we, you know, we tell, we, you don't have to do this but I always tell my, you know, my boss, like, hey, this week you won't see me.

SPEAKER 1: And the nice thing is being a teaching assistant the summer.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, me too. Me too. But, for me in the teaching assistant profession it's summer school and it's a lot easier to take off time in summer school than the regular school year. So it works out before I was into the teaching profession. It was a different week to get off. I still did it but I kind of got a guilt trip from, from my former employer.

SPEAKER 1: So now I don't have to worry about that. Well, Chris, I know you're busy. I appreciate you. You coming on and sharing some of your insight and, and what's going on behind the scenes, give out, you know, websites and anything you want to share and, and where you want to steer people to check.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, you're looking for a job and collectibles. I can't tell you enough collectors.com/career. You wanna sub your, your cards or memorabilia PS A card.com.

SPEAKER 3: You've got coins or banknotes PC GS dot com. As professional coin grading services. You got video games.

SPEAKER 3: W A is our video game division and we offer a really cool vaulting service that if you get your cards graded with us, you could have them vaulted and you can sell them really easily on Golden. So Golden is AAA great great venue for premium items to be to be sold on. I've, I've definitely, my wife was off this year. She took a year off on a bit of a sabbatical, spending more time with the kids.

SPEAKER 3: So I, I sold a few items on Golden to kind of finances through that. And and it was great. We just they, they make it again. The mission statement of collectors is make, collecting safe, easy and fun and through our relationship with Golden and, and what we do with all our different divisions. I, I think we're, we're really hitting that. So it's been a blast.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I look forward to seeing you here in, in the end of July in the Cleveland National as, as we were just talking about. And, I don't have to tell you this. Keep up the great work. You know, collectors has got AAA great one and, it's a good, good catching up with you Chris and, we, we'll do it.

SPEAKER 1: We'll, we'll have to do it again and, and with not as much time, between, appearances. For sure, for sure. Appreciate it, brother. All right. Take care, Chris, thanks. All right. Always great catching up with Mr Carlin. Busy guy.

SPEAKER 1: And that guy cares, you know, I think that came out, during the interview. It didn't need to come out during the interview for me because I know him and, I've seen that guy, on the front lines of customer service and, no one does it better and I know I'm biased but, it's true. So, always glad to catch, catch up with Chris.

SPEAKER 7: And, collectors has got, a great one with, within theirs time for our Hobby is the people announcer of the week.

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