Ep.267 w/ Nick Andrews "Boston Card Hunter"

SPEAKER 1: What is up everybody? Episode 267. As always, glad to be back, hope your 2024 is going splendidly so far, so far, so good here. Got a great guest today, Mr Nick Andrews, Boston Card Hunter and one half of the Sports Card Madness podcast. And, he's gonna be on today's building some insane complete sets, all autographed, all authenticated.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, one is complete and he's very close to a second one. I'll tease you there. You have to listen to find out the sets if you don't already know. And, we wanna chop up the hobby, as well.

SPEAKER 1: And, I had real fun, conversating with Nick, a good guy and, doing, you know, very, very busy guy and, and, doing good things and, and again, we're gonna talk about these two sets that he's very close. Well, one again, one's done and one is about to be, completed and, incredible stuff. So, without further ado, let's get this party started.

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SPEAKER 1: All right. Real excited to be joined by, by my next guest on the Sports Card shop guest line. He is a podcaster in his own right from the Sports Card Madness podcast. Nick Andrews.

SPEAKER 3: Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me, John. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER 1: Well, thank, thanks for coming on. It's, it's, you know, around the holiday time. And so I appreciate you making some time. For us it's kinda, you know, first time on, on this podcast kind of the, the age old boring kind of, you know, hobby, start hobby background, what you collect, how you got into this, crazy hobby. I always tend to start off with that one.

SPEAKER 3: Sure. Yeah, I mean, I collected as a kid in the eighties and got all the junk wax like everybody else. And, you know, I loved baseball cards back then and I even had like a, a teaching assignment where I'D send some of these cards off and try to get them signed. It was really cool.

SPEAKER 3: Like, I think I got Ryan Sandberg back and stuff and I did some of the Red Sox players because I'm from Boston and, it was, it was really fun. And then I, I went, I did it a little bit more in the nineties with basketball players like Karl Malone and stuff like that. Collected a little bit there.

SPEAKER 3: And then I just, I went completely dormant really until I don't know, 2018, 19, a little bit before COVID, I started getting back into the, the modern stuff just cause my son, you know, he's nine so he's starting to like, you know, he, he likes cards and likes collecting and likes watching sports.

SPEAKER 3: So I got into it a little bit then I quickly realized that I don't love most of the modern stuff and, I got really heavily into vintage and not just vintage but signed vintage. So I put together the entire 1986 Fleer basketball set, autographed, last year and I'm working on 1969 tops. The Tall boys right now.

SPEAKER 3: I'm like 91 out of 99. So I like sort of like the high end vintage stuff, the sign stuff they don't make anymore. That's pretty rare. But, I got a little bit of room for modern things. I mean, my son wants to watch Jason Tatum play and he likes to collect Jason Tatum cards. So I'm cool with that too.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt. And that's, that's crazy with those sets. I mean, that's, that's quite a, an undertaking. We're definitely gonna talk, more about that, as well. And much like you said, you know, vintage for me, as a dealer, I kinda carry both, but my heart is more on the, the vintage side of things probably for similar reasons. Right.

SPEAKER 1: It's just harder to find that the presses aren't still running, on that stuff out there is, is out there for the most part. And, you know, being older, you know, I'm 51 and I'm vintage. So it, it just sort of makes sense to, to, lean that way.

SPEAKER 1: Like I mentioned, in the open Nick, you, you, you know, you started, Sports Card Madness. Love the name, right? This is, Madness kind of is, appropriate for, this hobby in a good way and sometimes o occasionally, bad talk about, the content creation side.

SPEAKER 1: What was it that, you know, led you to, to do it? And now that you're, you're, you're doing it, you know, your thoughts on, you know, when I started in 2018, which seems like, I mean, it's five years, six years, you know, working on six years, seems like eons ago.

SPEAKER 1: But when I started, there was not as many, podcast, as we have now. So, just kind of talk about that, the landscape and, and the terrain with, you know, starting, recently.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. You know, my co-host and I, we love cards. He's my brother-in-law. We wanted scheduled time to talk about collecting away from our wives. That was kind of the reason we did it. That was, that was the selfish reason.

SPEAKER 3: The unselfish reason is, as I've navigated this hobby and learned how to game PS A get things graded, get the right cards, collect the right things, network in the right places. I realized that there's just a lot of people don't know this stuff. You know, there, there's a lot of podcasts out there that are like, all right. Well, Josh Allen's hot, I'D buy his cards right now.

SPEAKER 3: And that's useful information, but we wanted to go a little wider to people who are like, hey, I don't know anything about collecting, but my grandfather passed away and he's got a box of this. What do I do? Do I send it to? What, what is sGC? They don't, they don't even know what a grading company is. And we wanted kind of, a, it's almost an educational podcast where we can help almost like a one on one type thing.

SPEAKER 3: We could walk him through what's going on in the collecting world and, how you can do things like grading cards? Why would you even grade a card, something like that? And we've also had great guests on, like we had Walt Frazier on, and we talk about collecting from their perspective, like, what's it like for him to sign all these cards?

SPEAKER 3: And we you know, we've had an ex greater on, you know, talking about, you know, what it's like to, to grade and how you can, you know, you know, go around the system and things. So, it's, it's kind of cool. It's a mix of guests and educational content and then just like me and LZ having fun and just talking about the hobby. Like, it's, it's awesome.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, you make a great point too. Nick. You know, we kind of always make the assumption. Right. Everyone knows sort of the, the base level stuff of the hobby. And that's not really always the case. This hobby is growing by the day. There are people coming in.

SPEAKER 1: And it's all new terrain form and it can, I think you'll agree. I mean, it can be daunting, especially if you're new. It can be daunting when you're not new and they've spent 40 years in it. Like I have things that are, you know, the new cycle is a lot quicker, than, than many moons ago.

SPEAKER 1: And so it can be challenging. It can be scary maybe to someone who's not as familiar or just getting started and you make a great point. I love that. You said that. Right. Hey, we're here to educate. All right.

SPEAKER 1: You know, in my case, I try to do, similar things including, you know, someone asked me, like, you know, or sometimes I get introduced as an expert. I always try to correct them. Like I don't consider myself an expert because I'm still learning every day myself. Maybe I'm more experienced. I is what I'D say.

SPEAKER 1: But I don't think, we're, anyone's really an expert, just more experienced than maybe, someone else. And if I can share some of those, like you do, even on your podcast, I mean, that's, that's really what it's about and still learn as we go as well. I think it's, in important, to do that.

SPEAKER 1: You know, and like you said, you know, low hanging fruit to say, hey, so, and so's playing real well right now by his cards. I think most of us I don't want, you know, I don't want to paint with a broad brush. I think most of us that are in the hobby have some sort of sports fandom. I think it kind of starts there.

SPEAKER 1: I'm not saying there aren't people who collect or flip if you wanna go that far that don't really watch or care about sports, I'm sure they exist. But I think the majority, the bigger numbers, people who are fans of teams or if even not teams but players or sports.

SPEAKER 1: And so I think a lot of times they know, like, hey, this player is playing well, I'm gonna, you know, look to buy, some of those cards I don't think, you know, I just think, and I'm not wrong with that kind of content. But like you said, I think there's more to it than that if you try to do it, on different levels. As I, as I do as, as, as well.

SPEAKER 3: Excellent. Yeah, I, I agree. I mean, it's, it's a need. We found you don't know how many DM si get, you know, every day that are just like, what do I do with this? Do I grade this? What is grading? And, yeah, it got to the point where I'm like, let's just do an episode about it and I literally just send them the episode, like listen to this, this will help you buy on ebay. This will help you sell on ebay.

SPEAKER 3: That type of thing.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. And I, you know, I get very similar messages and, and that sort of thing. Sometimes I'll get some, you might get these two that, hey, I'm not having fun, in the hobby I'm thinking about getting out and I always, I don't know, you know, I always try Nick to find out what the root cause why, what do you think it is?

SPEAKER 1: Why are you disgruntled or why are you not enjoying yourself? It'd be real easy to say, hey, sell your cards, get out. That's, you know, I don't take that approach. I try to find out and, you know, sometimes try a different angle.

SPEAKER 1: And that, you know, try a different way. To do it and that sort of thing. It may be, it may reignite that passion. And so I'm sure you get probably similar, you know, takes like that.

SPEAKER 1: I always try, you know, I don't like to hear when people leave the hobby. I know some people sort of, you know, get off my lawn guy. I was here first. We need less people. I think, I, I don't think we need less people.

SPEAKER 1: I think that the, the more people in the hobby, the better the hobby, is, I mean, some may disagree, you know, you don't have to like how certain people hobby. But I always say as long as it's legal and above board and no one's doing anything, you know, unscrupulous then to each, you know, hobby, your, your sort of way.

SPEAKER 1: My next question kind is, is along that line, you know, fanatics now, kind of coming in, the licensing. We got some litigation. That's a whole show, in itself. But the, you know, the licensing will be mostly 75% theres, you know, unless something happens before that, in 2026 they've said they want 10 X, the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: I think that's ambitious but o obviously that's, that's their goal. That's their, their, you know, their number. I know you said you, you vintage but doing content creation, you cover, the modern market, as well. Some of your thoughts with, you know, fanatics kind of take on 10 X in the hobby, you know, your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER 3: So, what's interesting to me here is, I look at my 15 year old nephew. Right.

SPEAKER 3: And I look at myself and I say, how many sports bets have I placed in my entire life? 45, something like that prior to this boom. Right. And I think how many sports bets will my 15 year old nephew place in his entire life? And it's probably going to be something more like 40 or 50.

SPEAKER 3: So, right there you have a 10 X in behavior and when you have a 10 X in behavior that, that tends to have a systemic effect on things. And so I think the, the increase in gambling is going to change the way we watch sports for better or worse. I'm not here to judge.

SPEAKER 3: But it will change and there might be more viewership. And I also think the hobby is an extension of that where, sometimes I call it like the scratch ticket era.

SPEAKER 3: Like we're in this era where, you know, all these breakers, it's just, they're just ripping through packs and 99% of it's going in the landfill and, you know, you've got like a hit and then you sell that or, you know, the, the person who signed up for that spot and the break gets it, you know, that's, that's also gambling and again, I'm not here to judge.

SPEAKER 3: Like, I think, I think it's cool, you know, in, in whatever dose you think is appropriate as long as you've got the money to spend, have fun.

SPEAKER 3: But it's a change, right? Like we weren't breaking cards in 1988.

SPEAKER 3: There weren't inserts until the nineties. So I think that there's been changes along the way, inserts and parallels have changed that. But now fanatics with the gambling boom as a halo around this, I think it's just going to ignite, you know, the, again, the gambling in the hobby. So, I think, I mean, what they're doing is good.

SPEAKER 3: I love, I do love the public facing stuff, you know, like the Tom Brady commercials and the, you know, the different promotions they're doing with, you know, Travis Scott going to a hobby shop. It's pretty wild. Like we've never seen investment like that before.

SPEAKER 3: And no matter what you collect, I think that's gonna benefit the hobby because, you know, somebody listening to Travis Scott might catch that video and be like, oh, cool. You know, I haven't collected cards in 20 years. I'll grab one. So I like things that lift all tides and, if you look at the, the economics of everything it feels like where it's gonna go. I don't know about 10 X but it's, it's definitely gonna go up.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No doubt. I, you know, I, I agree almost across the board. I, I don't see 10 X either.

SPEAKER 1: But it definitely, you know, it, it's, it's gonna go up with the marketing, like you said, using celebrities outside the sports world. You know, you mentioned the Brady and the Bowman draft, as an exposes draftee. Obviously, we know we never actually followed that and went on to become a football legend instead and a, a huge one, arguably, maybe the greatest one, ever.

SPEAKER 1: It's, it's great marketing on, on that part. We see what Bowman drafts doing the wax prices itself. The Brady Cards, themselves, reminds me, Nick, of 91 which on a smaller scale back in 91 when upper deck included an sp one card of Michael Jordan just working out with the white Sox. This was even before he gave baseball a real legitimate crack.

SPEAKER 1: He just, they invited him to take batting practice and shag some balls and upper deck, got permission to make a card and that people were ripping 91 upper deck, like it was going out of style. That card was red hot, red hot at the time, not on, not on the pricing levels that we see the Brady, but it was also different hobby.

SPEAKER 1: There wasn't colored versions. It was just the one, the one car, there were no auto sp ones, but this reminds me the Brady baseball out of beef reminds me sort of of that parallel to 91 upper deck base with Jordan, coming from basketball, in this case, Brady from football to, to, a baseball product.

SPEAKER 1: And, and like you said, it, it does pique interest. You got the commercial which was well done, A as well. And, Brady, arguably one of the biggest names. Not even just sports, but as a celebrity and drawing a lot of attention.

SPEAKER 1: Where maybe, like you said, someone who used to collect says, hey, the cards are still a thing, apparently. Maybe, you know, it might be where, hey, they still have their cards at their parents' house and they're like, hey, are my cards still in the attic and they dig them out and it rekindles or reignites, you know, that, collecting gene.

SPEAKER 1: So I think, you know, I think you're exactly right. I think there are, I think every day we're getting more people, in the hobby, you know, 10 X may be an ambitious on fanatics part but may, who knows? Right.

SPEAKER 1: They got a lot of smart people in that room that crunch numbers and, and so I guess time will tell, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

SPEAKER 1: But, well, you know, well, time will also, tell that, as well.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I agree. So that you, you, you wanted to, in, in your reply, it's one of my bullet. Points, right? You mentioned the word, the I word, as I like to call it, in the hobby, right? Investment. And, you know, some people hate that word and, you know, my response and, and, and then I'll get your take on this, you know, you know, people get really passionate about this.

SPEAKER 1: You know, I've had people inbox me or even live on, you know, John cards are not an investment. I don't believe, you know, cards are an investment and I disagree. I, I, I'll even go further. I think anything can be an investment.

SPEAKER 1: If you choose to use it in that form, they don't have to be, I don't necessarily collect cards to retire on per se. That's what 401 Ks and pensions and, and that sort of thing are. But we see what the cards do.

SPEAKER 1: You know, cards of significance on auctions, millions of dollars in, in a lot of cases when something sells for that, you cannot look at that to me in your right mind and not say it's an investment, you know, you don't have to be in the hobby for investment purposes but you ee even if you're not, you can't poo poo it and say that some people aren't doing it for investment person purposes. So that's always been my stance.

SPEAKER 1: I disagree with anyone that says that cards are not, it may not be what me, you or they do it for per se, but it is, it can be an investment if that's the, the alley you choose to, go down and, and that's always been, my stance. I heard you, it was a bullet point on my list to cover and then you kind of segue right into it. I, I kind of think, I know what you might say but, what say you, yeah.

SPEAKER 3: So I think we actually had a certified financial planner on an episode of Sports Card Madness to cover this. And we kind of asked him, you know, how do you think of cards in, in your portfolio? The reason we did that is I literally sat down.

SPEAKER 3: He's actually my financial planner and I said, all right, David, I've got stocks covered, I've got real estate covered, I've got bonds covered, I've got private equity covered. What else is there?

SPEAKER 3: And he's like, well, there's this weird category of, you know, like art and collectibles and things like that. And I'm like, well, I'm already into sports cards and that, that actually prompted me to get more heavily into like high end vintage stuff. That's, that's, you know, that's a pop of four on or something like that.

SPEAKER 3: And the way I look at it is, it's a scarce asset with significant demand. It's, it's on par with, you know, like, like I said, gold, modern art, waterfront property, anything that they're not like making more of.

SPEAKER 3: It's, it's, it's rare so it's, it's valuable because it's got a market for it. So I love that it's a portfolio diversified. So cards will move in a different direction than stocks or bonds or real estate. They are not correlated in any way, shape or form, which is great. You want a certain percentage of your overall portfolio to move differently than other things. When something happens, then overall you're doing better.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I think there's obviously caveats to this. You're not gonna get any cash flow from, you know, a Sports Card, there's no dividend from a Sports Card. You are banking on appreciation and that appreciation is taxed a certain way.

SPEAKER 3: But you know, absolutely. I mean, look at, you know, the PS A 10 mantle. I think Vogel bought that for 50 grand or 100 grand and it's worth 10 million. So that's, that's an investment he held on to something valuable and scarce over a certain period of time. It became more valuable and equally scarce.

SPEAKER 3: So I know, II I it's different with modern cards. That's more of like day trading, right? Like, ok, this player is hot. Boom. I'm gonna catch him on the All Star game when he's in the home run derby. I'm gonna sell it tomorrow on ebay. I'm gonna be pissed if it doesn't ship quick enough.

SPEAKER 3: So the price changes, that's bananas to me. But people do that. And that's cool. I like the, the long term game, you know, that 86 Fleer sign set that's going to my son and I can only imagine what that will be worth in 20 years when he decides whatever he wants to do with it. You know.

SPEAKER 3: So that, that's a long term bet. So you can do both.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I agree 100% with what you just said, you know, you're not, you didn't do that. 8687 fla basketball sign set necessarily for the investment per se. You're like you said, it's going to be handed down, to your s son, but at the same time, you can't ignore the value of that. If and when it ever would change hands to, to, to not kind of think about that, right.

SPEAKER 1: You know, it's funny hearing you say that because, you know, it's funny the, the people Nick that will argue with me that card, there's no way cards are investment anytime like they pull something right? If they open something, one of the first things, even those people say, right is what's this worth?

SPEAKER 1: What's this going for? So they sort of con predict themselves and, and, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm actually not picking on them because we all, we all do that, right? We, we may say we don't care. I just enjoy this card. I don't care in the end, I don't care what it's worth but whenever we acquire something, whether it's from a pack a trade or just even purchasing it, we do.

SPEAKER 1: Right. We do care what it's going for, in, in the current market terms. Or we're at least somewhat curious, even if not, you know, investment, you know, collecting for investment. Just, just, I think that's just human nature is like, hey, what's this word?

SPEAKER 1: It's why, you know, people go to thrift stores and try to find, rare and unique items, and get deals on them. It's just, I think it's inherent human nature. I don't think we have to apo, it's not a bad thing. It's not, you have to apologize for.

SPEAKER 1: So even the people who, like, swear up and now there's no way that cards investment, it sort of the, the, you know, the truth comes out when they like, hey, what's this worth or what do I got here at the same time? Time?

SPEAKER 3: Right. Yeah, I mean, this, this 86 clear set, I put this thing together. I don't know, maybe 70 grand all in and the duplicates that I've accumulated along the way that I've gotten from guys that I've sent to or whatever. I'm probably net 30 grand into this thing.

SPEAKER 3: You know, the set's probably worth 300 grand. So, you know, they could say, I mean, yes, I'm not flipping that set. And it's going to my son, but just with a little bit of elbow grease, you Tenex your, your money, you know, and anybody can, could have done it. I just happened to do it.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Not easy though. Let's give yourself a little more, a little more credit than that. Let's, since you brought up it up, obviously, that was a bullet point. You know, how difficult talk about the difficulties of that.

SPEAKER 1: Was there one player that stands out as man, this one's gonna either you knew kind of going in that it was gonna be tricky or you found out after the fact that this one's not gonna go as smoothly. As some of the other cards.

SPEAKER 3: I ran into this thing bright eyed and bushy tailed thinking this was gonna be a breeze and it was not a breeze.

SPEAKER 3: You know, the, it's chock full of Hall Of Famers, right? And the ones that are alive, they do signings, you just mail it in or they're at shows then there's like, so there's 100 and 30 ish cards in the base, set another, another chunk for the, the stickers.

SPEAKER 3: It's like 100 and 43 all in. I would say half of them for or 40% of them are just kind of like regular dudes and you can mail them the car and maybe throw in 20 bucks, or something like that and they'll, they'll sign it and mail it back.

SPEAKER 3: Then. You've got another 25% that are Hall Of Famers and you, you pay your fee like for Dr J or Magic and they'll sign the card. Then you've got 20 deceased players, which they're not signing the card. So you need to go find those.

SPEAKER 3: They're not making any more of those. There's a certain amount on the planet and then they're gone and I'D say half of those aren't too, too bad, but the networking required is bonkers. You know, I had to join the 86 FLA Facebook group. There's vintage card, Facebook groups.

SPEAKER 3: I had to, I wasn't even on Instagram and I had to get on Instagram because I just needed to find people that were in the know about these cards and that, that got me pretty close. There's a few deceased guys that I would imagine there are probably 20 signed 86 clear cards of theirs on the planet, like in attics and in collections like 20 period. That's the number of sets that can be made.

SPEAKER 3: Those were tough. Those were expensive, but I found kind of the right places to find them and pulled it off. Just people who had them. Yeah. And they, they found me and it worked out great. And then there's, there's some random ones man, like there's a card that it's the Steve Johnson card, but it is not his picture on the card.

SPEAKER 3: So as you can imagine, you know, he ended up in that iconic set and they screwed up his card. He does not like signing that card. So I, I begged him and begged him and I eventually sent a big check to him with a very nice note and he finally signed it for me. So there's your, that's your like that's your difficulty in terms of effort.

SPEAKER 3: Like that's the picture there. Then I would say obviously the mjs are difficult in terms of money, right? The, the 86 flare, that's, that's M J's rookies. He's dunking the ball to get that signed is, is a considerable amount of money. The sticker isn't as bad. It's probably about a third of the, the base, but those are pricey.

SPEAKER 3: They're available, you know, every quarter or so. At an auction, you'll see one, you can get them, but you gotta pay the piper, the rest with a little sweat and elbow grease. You can get most of them and not many of them are over a couple 100. I think Doctor J might be 130. Larry Bird is probably 150.

SPEAKER 3: Magic is like 100 they're not gonna break the bank. So I'D actually recommend the audience like even if you're not gonna finish the set, like do a, I don't know a Hall Of Fame set, like just get some of these cards and sign them because at some point, Larry Bird just might be like I'm done, like, I'm old.

SPEAKER 3: I don't feel like signing stuff anymore. Same thing with Doctor J, get them while they're here. You know, they're legends. They're here and they're willingly signing, get their autographed on something, you know.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And, and even, you know, you point out that they may just decide, hey, I'm, I'm done signing. I don't have, I don't wanna spend too much time doing this in my, my golden years of life or, you know, I hate to say it right.

SPEAKER 1: We don't live forever that day comes and, and you, I mean, you even mentioned, you know, 20 of the cards you had to get on on that level and you know, everyone, obviously, probably the Michael Jordan cost wise might have been the, the hardest to, to get it on, on that level. But you even mentioned, you know, the Steve Johnson like, hey, that they messed up, messed up.

SPEAKER 1: Miss put the wrong player on there and he, you know, II I get it. I don't wanna sign that. That's not me. You had to, you know, pony up unfortunately to get him, but people don't realize that. I mean, no offense to Steve Johnson, he's not a Hall Of Fame player.

SPEAKER 1: But because of the circumstances, that card became a little more difficult than you'd you think about that you think it would have been right?

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SPEAKER 1: Out of the deceased group. Like which one was the harder to obtain would you say?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, there's three. It's like the Holy Trinity of the set. So there's Dan Rafel who again, not a, not a big time guy or anything like that. He retired the next year.

SPEAKER 3: So there wasn't much opportunity to like go to a stadium and get that signed as a kid, right?

SPEAKER 3: Some people did it through the mail. That's how I got mine. There was a guy who sent through the mail to him and I, I bought it off him like that.

SPEAKER 3: So that one's tough. There's probably 10, you know, on the, on the pop report and like I said, I'll say another 10 in addicts, right?

SPEAKER 3: Derek Smith is very difficult because he died in 1996. So, you know, he only had nine years to, to sign cards, period, end of story from the set and then he was gone and, you know, signing cards was not popular in the late eighties or early nineties.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, you know, so, and then Mike Mitchell who's, you know, he was kind of a recluse and he, it's, those three are, like I said, I think for those three, they determine how many of these sets can ever be made. I know of two other full sets in existence. Jeff Wilson of Sports Car investor has one.

SPEAKER 3: Although it's not like dual graded and PS A new label like mine, but he, he's got one, there's another collector I know who has one. It's not graded.

SPEAKER 3: And then I have one. So I think like I said, there's, there's probably 20 that can be made because of those three guys, they're, they're the most difficult. And again, it's because they weren't, you know, you, you were going after Kareem or Magic or Larry Bird, right?

SPEAKER 3: You weren't going after Dan Rafel unless you were like a really big fan of that team. And those are probably the guys who have these cards and I've, I've hunted them down.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. You just, you just kind of finish with the, everyone was chasing the, the bigger names back then.

SPEAKER 1: You know, autographs were, have always been AAA big deal but not not comparatively to, to current types. Not as much then. And I'm old enough to remember like having rookie cards signed was like Bugaboo. I was like, no, you have a like a second year card.

SPEAKER 1: Sign, don't have the, you know, you're ru, you're ruining it, you're writing on it. And, and now we, as we both know that is a huge, huge market for signed and authenticated. And it's funny how times change and, and, and opinions and views change.

SPEAKER 1: And I, I grew up where, like, you know, going to a game, like, you always brought, like, not the rookie cards to have signed and the rookie cards you just kept clean and, and, but now that's, that's went back, the other way and so many as, you know, many cards in that set, because there weren't cards made for the few years before that became sort of de facto default, rookie cards.

SPEAKER 1: And so, and, and then you add the factor that some of these folks, you know, passed away not too long after the set was produced and that, that degree difficult, the exponentially goes up, it probably was tricky enough as it was.

SPEAKER 1: And then they're, you know, they're, they're not here any longer. So, you know, kudos to you for putting that set together, like you said, maybe only, only three exist in, in the world and, and maybe that number you kind of mentioned price wise might be even on the lower end of that when, when push comes to shove.

SPEAKER 1: I know you're not, you didn't do it necessary for that reasons. But, you know, it, it, it is something that we talk about when we talk about hobby items and, and that sort of thing, you're putting the, the other set, what did you say?

SPEAKER 3: 6869 the 1969 tallboys. So, those, you know, the white tallboy cards, the tops of basketball. It's like Kareem's Rookie Jar, you know, like, just tons of tons of, like Oscar Robinson. Like, it's just a great, great set, you know.

SPEAKER 1: I think, I mean, you correct me if I'm, I'm wrong. I mean, to me that would even, I think the degree of difficulty is even higher. Now, you're talking 20 years, you know, 17 years, before many more players from that set are probably, unfortunately no longer with us.

SPEAKER 1: Now you're going back further when signing was maybe less pre you know, people got programmed sign or the ticket when they were at the game. I, I'm gonna venture, I guess this one's gonna be a little bit more challenging for you. Agree. I agree.

SPEAKER 3: I did 86 flare in like four or five months.

SPEAKER 3: I'm typically aggressive when I do something. This, this top set is 10 to 20 times harder.

SPEAKER 3: I don't think personally, more than five or six of them can possibly ever exist and there's two, there are two, I know pe two people have them. And so I'm, this is gonna be like almost like a last shot at it. So after gosh, I I'm eight months into it and I'm 91 out of 99. The problem with some of the cards, like, I've got a Bob Boozer card.

SPEAKER 3: Again, not a great big player or anything, you know, it's getting like PS A or somebody to say like, yeah, that's his signature. It's, it's really obscure and it's difficult.

SPEAKER 3: I got it from somebody who got it in person and they're still like, nah, we, it's inconclusive and they throw it back to you and give you a refund. So when I say set, I'm saying a slabbed and sealed set, you know, like they, that's what I do with 86. That's what I wanna pull off of 69. So these last eight, I've got leads on like four of them and then there's two or three that are just, it's, it could take years.

SPEAKER 3: I will get this together. I, I know I will finish it but I wouldn't be surprised if it took me three or four years to get the last few cards just at the right time, right place, but I'll finish it.

SPEAKER 1: Nick. You ever run into a situation where someone knows what you're trying to do and they play hardball. Maybe they trying to squeeze a few more extra nickels you like, hey, I know this guy needs a real band to finish the set you ever run into?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I won't, I won't name drop here. But like you know, there's one collector of this set that he kind of takes advantage of the people that, like, get desperate and, like, want these cards.

SPEAKER 3: And so the fair market value of a specific card could be like 1500 bucks or something. Right. And he'll be like four grand, you know, give me four grand for it and he'll get it from some people I refuse because there's always other fish in the sea.

SPEAKER 3: He tried to do that with me and then I found an ex dealer out in California with three of the cards and he's, he doesn't want to sell them yet, but he might in the future and I'm sure I'll, I'D rather build a relationship with somebody like that and then maybe he does me a solid and you know, and I can help him and, and that type of thing.

SPEAKER 3: But yeah, and you see it like in the 86 flair group too, man, like they know we know what cards are valuable and tough. So they, they throw it out there for a high price. Some of them are worth that price. You know, it's I if it's the last card in your set, this, this happened to me with Mike Mitchell, I overpaid by two X for Mike Mitchell cause it was the last card I didn't care.

SPEAKER 3: And I put a bounty out there and I said I'm gonna pay this, whoever's first gets the money and, a couple of people popped out and they had it. So, yeah, that happens. It's tough. I mean, if you've got something that there's only like, five or six of them in the world, the community gets pretty, pretty tight. They all kind of know each other and they play games, you know? So it's tricky.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's, that's something I definitely wanted to ask you about knowing that, like, you know, that's just how the hobby can be. Some people try to take advantage of, of the situations, at hand, you know, obviously you, you, you mail some out.

SPEAKER 1: How daunting is that right? We, we know how TT M works and yet it always did, like, how, what percentage that does it ever happen? You send a card out maybe, obviously, maybe for a lesser player and then you just don't get the card back.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, yeah. I mean, that happens. Like, we, again, we did a podcast episode about this, like, how to get anyone's autograph, right? So, you don't just go, like, mail a bunch of crap out and hope for the best. Like, there's, there's a technique to it. So the first and most important one, there are three or four websites you can go to, to find out if people sign, there's a free one. It's a Sports Card forum.

SPEAKER 3: Just Google, like Sports Card forum. TT M that's free, go on there, hit basketball or hit whatever sport you're looking for, type in the name, if they've got a 97% success rate and somebody just got something back yesterday from them. They're a good signer and it'll even say like, hey, I had to throw in $10. I had to throw in $20 or whatever. So, prescreen, like, that's one place SCN.

SPEAKER 3: Just Google SCN sports cards. You probably know about this site.

SPEAKER 3: It's a great collector site, discussion boards. They've got, I think it's like eight bucks a year or 10 bucks a year and they'll tell you when public signings are coming up, they'll tell you who's, who's signing through the mail.

SPEAKER 3: And then, for 20 bucks you can get a hard copy of, it's a Sports Card, addresses.com or sports address, list.com, something like that. He sends you like a binder with, just the latest every year. It gets updated, the latest addresses for people and it'll tell you on there like tough signer. Yes. No.

SPEAKER 3: And he'll update you if somebody moves. So, use those three resources. And then after that man, it's, it's so easy. Like I got 40% of this set for, for free, for the cost of like a stamp each way and, and time, you know, hand cramping, like writing letters and stuff.

SPEAKER 3: It's, I would recommend anybody do that. It's even for kids, right? Like, it's something I do with my son to help him, like, learn how to write a letter, you know, learn how how to make a request of somebody politely.

SPEAKER 3: And it's just like good life skills like, and people are surprised like if you get mail nowadays it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's this handwrit envelope like that cuts through the noise pretty quick rather than like ad m or a text like a handwrit envelope. They're gonna open it and, and sometimes I go even a step further, I'll take like a, like a nine by seven.

SPEAKER 3: I'll put their picture on it. I'll say thank you, Jim. And, you know, I, I'll spend the 350 or whatever for the, the Ground Advantage label and they're gonna open that, you know, you get a package that, that's cool.

SPEAKER 3: So, I, I'D recommend anybody try it and I've gotten people that are very difficult, like Billy Cunningham does not sign, you know, his cards go for 1000 bucks on ebay and I put a really nice note together with a picture of my son for the set against going to my son. So, and he signed for me. It's like it's crazy. So it's a good lesson.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I've told this story on this pod. My dad, we, we're originally from Brooklyn. My dad obviously grew up in Brooklyn, pretty much lived in Ebbets Field watching the Brooklyn Dodgers play, meeting many of those guys. It was a different era. Those guys were, were more personable than maybe today's players are, or time wise and, you know, before Social Media and the internet and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 1: And in the eighties, I was in high school and my dad was telling the stories about his interactions and I'm like, pops, we, you know, while I, while the Dodgers left before I was born, I became a big Jackie Robinson's my guy and I, you know, I, I became sort of, I wanna say historian, but a fan of the team, you know, after the fact, and I'm like, we should write these guys and tell them what they meant to you and how I learned about them through you.

SPEAKER 1: And like you said, it's a great point. We, we, we wrote these hand written letters to each one of these guys that were still alive at the time and many of them, you know, we sent index cards and they, they sent them back sign, but they would send letters back.

SPEAKER 1: Thanks for remembering, you know, Dodger. You know, it brought back memories of my playing days. Some of them even said, like I don't get anything like this. Thank you for remembering me.

SPEAKER 1: It was a pleasure playing in Brooklyn. Some of my fondest memories of my playing that sort of thing. They were like, grateful to even be remembered, along those, those lines. And so hearing you say that with, with that. Just know when we did that with Brooklyn Dodger players in the, 8889.

SPEAKER 1: When, when we did that, me and my dad, I, I get it because we, you know, some of them sent besides letters, they sent like articles and, and business cards if they were in, you know, other lines of work and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 1: It was pretty cool to get that sort of correspondence and that, that response besides the autographs and, and, you know, I had the books over there, Nick, I have a, a Brooklyn Dodger binder with three by five index cards of, of many of the players that, that played, in Brooklyn. And again, not for, not necessarily for sale, but it's just part of my dad has one too, in his collection.

SPEAKER 1: And, for him, it means a little bit different as someone who got to see those guys up close and personal. For me, it's many of the connections through my dad's stories. And, but, getting those things back from those guys, you know, a lot of them said you made my day, you made my week, some of them told stories in their letter.

SPEAKER 1: Like, hey, I'm going to lunch with. So, and so did you, did you contact him? I'm sure he would be flattered as well. Just stuff on that personal level. It was kind of crazy to, to think you'd get that sort of response. But yet, we did back then and so hearing you say that with, with, with, you know, with your stories, it makes, it makes sense.

SPEAKER 1: And you know what going, going back to the 8687 set would obviously some of the bigger name rookies, you know, Karl Malone, Akeem Olajuwon are much of those were, were in person or did you still with a card like that? Go through the mail process?

SPEAKER 3: Well, they, they all do signings in person. I think Hakeem does like one a year in Texas.

SPEAKER 3: Clyde same thing.

SPEAKER 3: When I, when possible I liked it in person. So Doctor J I got in person. He came to, there's a, a show called the Shriners Show that's probably 300 tables or so out here in Massachusetts. And he came to that last year. I got his his triple, signed that 1980 triple with Larry Byrne and Magic.

SPEAKER 3: I got him to sign that and you know, other stuff and that's awesome. Like Cedric Maxwell, he's he's the speaker. I'm sorry, he's an announcer for the the Celtics. He does the radio and I was at the, the garden and he signed my card for me and he's in that set.

SPEAKER 3: So the in-person ones are actually the ones I remember the most.

SPEAKER 3: Cause the mail feels very transactional. You send it to an autograph dealer or an autograph show you pay your price comes back.

SPEAKER 3: The in person. The thing is cool cause you get a few seconds with him and you can like slip a question in there like, you know, Doctor J was like, you know, I got to see like his ring like he has a ring on. That was cool, you know.

SPEAKER 3: So I always, I like it. I like the in person but obviously it's just, I, I'D be flying everywhere, you know, to like to pull this off.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt. And a kudos to you. That's, just an incredible, like you said it, there's probably only three, maybe four, that exist. There's three that, you know about and, with the set being what it is, 20 players no longer with us. I mean, that's, gonna be a very tough feat for anyone to follow and, and complete, as well. One last question before we kinda, wrap it up, you know?

SPEAKER 1: Y you know, you, you have your finger on the pulse of the hobby. I, I have a thing. I don't do it every, with every guest or with every episode. I call it the hobby. Magic wand. It's obviously not a real thing. But if it existed, I hand it to you and say you have one hobby, wish. In other words, you can, hey, I don't like this. I'm gonna get rid of this or I wanna see more of this. I'm gonna make it happen.

SPEAKER 1: You get one wish with the hobby, Magic one.

SPEAKER 1: You know, what are you gonna do with it?

SPEAKER 3: I think I, I would like to see a little less breaking and gambling and flipping and more collecting. And that also sort of means a little less short term thinking and a little more long term thinking, whatever that means.

SPEAKER 3: Now of course you could break and get something you're going to collect long term. So that, that works. But I guess overall it's shifting from short term thinking about the hobby to long term, thinking about the hobby, it's more healthy. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: No, I won't argue. I agree. And, you know, I've talked about breaking, on multiple occasions on the show and while it has a place, right, like you said, you know, they, they fly through those cards, they're looking for that one card. The rest kind of go by the wayside as someone, you know, that started in 1979.

SPEAKER 1: Like, like I did, it's sort of, I cringe when I see that you walk around the National, look on the tops of the garbage cans and they're just stacks of cards in there. It's sad, to see, I remember, you know, trading my gum back when gum was in packs for my buddy's cards.

SPEAKER 1: They wanted the gum and I wanted their cards and, you know, so to see like stacks of base cards on tops of garbage cans or watching a break and just see cards just be kind of tossed to the, the wayside. To me, it's kind of sacrilegious. I know it's a sign of the times if, if you will. But, I kinda agree.

SPEAKER 1: I've said breaking has probably saved the wax industry and sealed, you know, because so much of it, gets, sold that way. And, you know, the cops and fanatics and upper decks and paninis of the world, that's one of their lifelines is the breaking, industry. And if they're telling the truth they, they say so, themselves. So, II, I understand it has its place.

SPEAKER 1: It's definitely not going away as, as we both know. But I'D, I'D like to see some of that more traditional and I, and there's plenty of people who do it in, in that sense. Nick as, as we both know. But I agree, I think the more I think the healthier the hobby is, like you said, long term.

SPEAKER 1: So, so great answer. And, here, here I, I agree. I'm waving that pennant, with you, as well. So as I always do, with the, with the guest, any final thoughts and, give out all those socials, you know, where people can catch the, the show, you on Social Media all that. You got as much time as you need. Sure.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. No, I, this is a great conversation.

SPEAKER 3: I think we're sort of, I'm a little bit younger.

SPEAKER 3: So we're cut from the same cloth, I think with our preference for vintage. That's not saying, you know, there's obviously modern is great, like if you wanna follow your favorite players and collect them, I just have that preference, I guess cause I'm 43 right?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, you know, if anybody wants to reach out, I'm on Instagram as Boston Card Hunter. Pretty easy to find. You can always dm me. I love answering questions and helping people. I've helped many people start sets or sign sets or, you know, all those th those places I mentioned as resources just hit me up.

SPEAKER 3: And, just ask what they are and I'll, I'll send them to you because it took me a while to find out what they were and I'D rather save you the trouble.

SPEAKER 3: And then, yeah, I, I'm, a host of Sports Card Madness podcast comes out every Friday. It's on Spotify, Apple Podcast, YouTube anywhere you can find them.

SPEAKER 3: We're about 30 episodes in and there's pretty good library of like how to and, and what to do and, things like that, but also good guests like Walt Frazier, Nat Turner, and others. So, yeah, I'm here, I'm here to help anybody, you know, I love the hobby. I'm a hobby. Cheerleader.

SPEAKER 3: I'm enjoying it. So, anybody wants help or advice with collecting, especially sets to set me up.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I use the two a words Nick, when it comes to good guys and the hobbies. Right. And ambassadors and advocates. I think you check, both of those boxes, continued success. We come out on Fridays too. So, check out Sports Card Madness and Sports Car Nation same day.

SPEAKER 1: Two birds, one stone, so to speak. But thanks for coming on. Continued success. Good luck with the, your, your current set, which you know, I, I, you said you're pretty close to but a little more daunting than, than the previous one.

SPEAKER 1: And I would even, I, I, I know myself, I'm not even, wouldn't even attempt it, not gonna be able to do it. So I'll live vicariously through you and I love to be back on down the line here, as well.

SPEAKER 3: Of course. Thanks again, John.

SPEAKER 1: I wanna thank Nick for joining the show. And how about that? With those two sets, man, it's hard enough to build a new set, you know, with the way Coalition is and not only is he put those sets together, but every card is, is authenticated and signed and, and, and, you know, in some of these cases, as we talked about, some of these guys are no longer with us.

SPEAKER 1: So, makes it very difficult and it's gonna do whatever the end result is, whether they're left to family or, or eventually. So it's gonna be doing very well with those, but kudos for even attempting that and extra kudos for completion.

SPEAKER 1: But check out his socials as he gave out, his podcast And, just, a really good guy. Glad, we'll have him back on but, glad he came on today. All right, we're gonna hear from our hobby is the people announcer this week. And some closing thoughts and we'll wrap up today's episode time for our hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 9: This is Mike. So, from the wax pack Hero Sports Card Minute. Don't forget the hobby is the people.

SPEAKER 7: If you'd like to be the hobby is the people announcer of the week, do a WAV or MP3 file and send it to Sports Card Nation PC at gmail.com.

SPEAKER 10: That's a wrap for this week. Huge. Thanks to you, the listeners out there because without you, there is no ice.

SPEAKER 10: If you like the show, we truly appreciate positive reviews. Big ups to our great guests who drive the show and our awesome sponsors who make it all possible. Sports Card Nation will be back next week, but don't forget to catch either hobby quick hits or cod mentions coming up on Monday.

SPEAKER 10: I'll leave you with this.

SPEAKER 10: How do we change the world?

SPEAKER 10: One random act of kindness at a time.

SPEAKER 10: Remember the hobby is the people.

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