Ep.250 w/ Torsten Bauer "Collecting in Germany"

SPEAKER 1: What is up everybody episode 250. And man, when, you know, when I think about that 2 50 number doesn't seem real, it doesn't seem possible. And I know there are other hobby podcasts that are over 250 that are newer, maybe do 234 episodes a week. But for this show, Sports Car Nation, that 2 50 is one show a week.

SPEAKER 1: Unless I'm mistaken, I've never done two Sports Car Nations in a week. It's always been one at the, at the most. We've missed about four weeks in five years, maybe, maybe five weeks in five years. And that in itself is head scratching to me.

SPEAKER 1: So, when I think about that 250 number and, you know, once a week you just realize how long the show's been going and when I realize how long this show's been going, I don't think of so much me, but I think of all the people that make it possible. It starts with you out there. Right. If no one listens to the show, I'm not gonna do the show, most likely.

SPEAKER 1: And, it's, you, they've made this show from, you know, a little show that was getting 50 to 100 downloads in the, in the initial stages five years ago to the four figure download show each week it's become.

SPEAKER 1: And, again, thanks to you, out there every single one of you, you could be doing other things, you could be listening to other shows or not listening to this show at all. And, and I'm sure you do listen, you know, I, I encourage you to listen to multiple things, but, the fact that you, you give me some time each week, is not lost on me. Not, not one bit. And so thank you, for that.

SPEAKER 1: Thank you to the guest who make this show really who drive this show, right? More of them and less of me is the desired effect. And obviously sponsors who allow me to, you know, put the show on give things way buy needed upgrades and equipment and that sort of thing and I like them and use them.

SPEAKER 1: So, we don't show here, at all and, to the point we've said no, to certain sponsors because I don't endorse that. So with that being said, you know, again, a hardy thank you as we approach 300. This is number 2 50 a little bit longer intro here because I want to tackle something else.

SPEAKER 1: For those that may have seen on Social Media and it blew up, but it was crazy. And, you know, Jefferson, be the father of card collector as he's often referred by.

SPEAKER 1: Grave is 14 miles north of where I am. And this past weekend I went up there to see the grave and pay my respects for the first time. And I was a little bit surprised at what I saw the grave had lots of moss and, and leeching growth, kind of a form of algae where he could almost not read it quite frankly.

SPEAKER 1: Other than knowing it was his grave, it was very hard to read and I kind of paid my respects and, give you full transparency. I'm a brave talker and here's what I mean by that whenever I visit, whether it be a family, passed away, family members grave, a friend's grave. And in this case, Jefferson verdicts not out loud, but in my head, I, I say what I would want to say to him assuming if they could hear me.

SPEAKER 1: And so I, I said some stuff that if, you know, he was able to hear me, he would hear, paid my respects and I went home and that it was a Saturday and, you know, it really bothered me, knowing this man's contributions to the hobby and seeing the headstone in that condition. II, I just, I couldn't let it be and it, it, it weighed on my mind a, at different points throughout the day.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, I told my wife, just so, you know, in the morning, I'm, I'm gonna head back up there and I'm gonna II I gotta do this justice and she said, hey, that is a great, a great thing. And, you know, that, that not that I needed a final push, but, here and that just made my decision, you know, cemented it. So I did research what I can use that, that I had already here.

SPEAKER 1: And I had a lot of things, a soft pressure brush, a, a pump sprayer to fill with water and so solution of cleaning vinegar and dawn that you mix, together. And yes, I know D two is the preferred choice. I don't have that at the moment. It would probably be something I add to, to do further cleanings in the future.

SPEAKER 1: And until Sunday morning I woke up, took a shower, got dressed and headed 14 miles back up to Hillside Memorial Cemetery in Central Square, New York. And if anyone ever needs info to find his burial site, I'd be more happy to share that information.

SPEAKER 1: So you too can pay your respects as well. So I went up, I drove up to 14 miles. Takes about 2025 minutes. Not too bad. Went back to the grave site with a little, with my supplies and kind of a little bucket. And, I did the honor of, of cleaning, his headstone and a little bit more work than I anticipated not complaining. No pity parties here.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, he's buried between his parents, his parents to the left and right, his father to the left, his mom to the right. And I said, man, you know, I, I cleaned his headstone. I should, you know, do the honors to clean his parents. It just didn't look right.

SPEAKER 1: His is done and theirs wouldn't be. So I did all three, took about 70 minutes in total. Wasn't watching the clock per se. I had nothing pressing, to do, let my wife know I'd be home when I'm done however long that might be and, you know, did it and then I posted it and again, I apologize for this long intro.

SPEAKER 1: But II, I really want to, to talk about this and, I'll try to wrap it up here and I posted it, you know, before and after photos and, you know, someone will say, well, what was the point of, you know, posting it?

SPEAKER 1: Are you patting yourself on the back? 0% of that? What I, you know, there, there was 22 kind of things going through my mind. Number one, you know, I always talk about being an advocate, an ambassador, a steward of the hobby. Right.

SPEAKER 1: And this was to me, me being a steward of the hobby sort of honoring the past, respecting the past, this gentleman made major contributions to the hobby. I love and I hope you love. And I wanted to do right. But in this final wrestling place it didn't take, you know, we're talking about 60 minutes, 70 minutes of work, not a big deal. And I wanted to do it.

SPEAKER 1: I wanted to be a good steward and I wanted to be an example for others to do the same and not just in the hobby but just, just in life and in general and the other thing I wanted to do but go with the post and, and putting some light on it and him was exactly that. Put some light on him. A lot of people in the hobby, new and old, new and old, both probably don't know who Jefferson bet is.

SPEAKER 1: It doesn't make you a bad hobbyist. You just may not know, you just, you know, may not have learned about him. And so I wanted people to know about him and the one and, and I know that happened because, at, at the time of this recording, I've received 7 to 10 different messages from different people.

SPEAKER 1: A good percentage of them saying, hey, John, I, I didn't know about this gentleman. Your post made me research him. Thank you. I, I learned something today. Thank you for doing what you did. The gravestone and shining light on Mr Burr and a few others.

SPEAKER 1: Were people who knew the history of, of Jefferson be and said, you know, thank you for doing that and thank you. It made me kind of go look back again and revisit some of, of, of his story. And that was really the purpose of that post. And that's, that, that warms my heart. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER 1: I get a little choked up maybe when I think about that. But that's, that was, you know, II, I think in anything I've done, I've always tried to respect the past. How did we get here? It's 2023. We didn't, just a meteor, didn't just crash and the hobby just showed up. All right.

SPEAKER 1: We, we, you know, it's been around over 100 years, obviously and how did we get there and everything that's happened before 2023 is in some way responsible for where we are today. And I like to honor that, and respect that and this was one of those cases. So that's, that's where it was coming from.

SPEAKER 1: And, we're gonna do a, a legends of the hobby and hobby quicks of Mr be, probably in 34 weeks if, you know, maybe not sooner. But, look forward it around then. And that was in the plan even before, what I did this past weekend. So, enough about that we got a great guess, you know, the hobby is, you know, it's called Sports Car Nation.

SPEAKER 1: It's worldwide. And the gentleman on today's show to Bauer is from Germany. And so he's a shack collector. I wanna learn about what's the hobby like in Germany? It's not like we, like, we have it here in the States. How is it different? How has he adapt? Why Shaq?

SPEAKER 1: And he is a great guy and speaking of great ambassadors of the hobby, Towson wears that, where's that crown, in Germany. So, glad to, to get him on the show and, and talk about that. He's been on Doctor Jim's sports card insights in a few episodes. Check those out as well.

SPEAKER 1: Very informative and, and, and I tried to do the interview maybe in a little bit of a different fashion as well. So with that being said, the intro, I apologize for the long intro. The interview is a little shorter. So, you know, forgive me for the long intro but had to say, something. So thank you. But let's get this show going.

SPEAKER 2: Time for our hobby is the people announcer of the week.

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SPEAKER 1: I'm really interested to talk to my next guest. He's all the way in Germany. He's been on Doctor Beckett's podcast and happy to have him here now on Sports Car Nation. Mr to Bauer. How are you?

SPEAKER 4: I'm fine. Thanks for having me, it's a big pleasure and a big honor from you.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I, I appreciate you making some time and, and, you know, when you're dealing with different time zones, it's sometimes tricky to, coordinate. But, we didn't, here, here we are.

SPEAKER 1: You know, you're, those that heard you on, on Doctor Jim's show, will know that you're a, a Shaq collector, like I said in, in Germany, I guess my first, my first question to and why Shaq other than the obvious reasons of, of being a, a great player. But what was it that drew you to Shaquille O'Neill?

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, that's first off, I mean, I started, I started collecting and being a Shaq fan in, in 1995. So back then I was not so much into basketball. Basketball was not as popular as it is today in Germany.

SPEAKER 4: And Shaq was back then. He was one of the most popular players, most popular players and he was one of the few I already knew. And on the other hand, I was a big pro wrestling fan. So I like the big and strong guys and, and Shaggy was the biggest and strongest, right?

SPEAKER 4: So that's the reason I developed to become a, a big Shaq fan. And also we, we had relatives in near Orlando Florida. So I wanted to collect Orlando Magic Cards. And so Shaq wasn't obvious choice for me.

SPEAKER 1: Well, not a bad choice. You know, I still, I still feel like even today, even though he's been retired a while now, he's obviously a, an NBA analyst and, and commentator. I always, I still feel like he's a little bit underrated.

SPEAKER 1: We don't, we, you know, people don't realize, I think those of us that watched him during his playing days realize how dominating he was. But I think maybe younger folks that didn't see him during his actual, you know, when he was playing, don't realize what a force and, and how dominating he, he was. Would you, would you agree with that?

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, that, that's probably, probably true. But, but also during his time when he played, I know that some of my friends who were basketball fans as well, they, they didn't really appreciate his playing style because he was not a finesse player. He was a power player, but still he, he was, he was very agile for his size.

SPEAKER 4: And, and that's something as a kid. Maybe when you, you're not very experienced in sports and everything, you don't really, you don't really realize that. But I agree with you that he might be underrated, but I think he's coming along. So when, when I was collecting his cards, for example, they, they were not as much work as the penny and the Grant Hill, those were the, the big stars.

SPEAKER 4: And then Jordan returned, of course, then he was number one again, but, but I think currently also Denis Rodman, he was very popular in Scottie Pippen. But now I think from, from the old crew, except for Michael Jordan. Of course, shake might be the, the most popular one.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And he's a char charismatic guy. He does some commercials that are funny and I think more people are kind of, you know, finding out about him again, younger, maybe younger people are kind of finding out about him and, and going back and, and finding more out about him researching, watching some highlights.

SPEAKER 1: And that sort of thing, the fact that he stayed, he's staying in the, in the forefront, not just sort of, you know, you know, on a beat somewhere, not, not being seen or, or heard from. Again, I think helps and that sort of thing. I know you're, you're big into the nineties inserts, collecting those.

SPEAKER 1: We've seen those, I guess, unfortunately for those who tried to, to purchase them, we've seen them sort of catch fire and, and kind of go up, in price. Is it, have you noticed that, has it become, maybe a little more difficult to obtain some of those 90 inserts that you don't have?

SPEAKER 4: I think the problem is, is not, not even the difficulty to, to get them, but the price as, as you mentioned, right, the prices are have gone up. They, they are a little bit down. Right. Now, but, but not as low as I wish they were. Yeah. So I remember when, when I bought his, his cool insert cards.

SPEAKER 4: 5678 years ago, they were insanely cheap. So, it was you for 50 bucks you would get, like, some, some of the bigger cards right now you pay, like, I guess 203 $100 for them. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit tough to, to get his big cards now or I'm not, I'm not into the, the really big ones.

SPEAKER 4: So I'm not a guy who, who spends like hundreds and thousands of dollars for the PM GS and, and the credential cards. But I, I like all those inserts, those that were like, box hits or, or even case hits. Those are the kind of insert inserts I, I really like. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And again, I've heard you speak to, to kind of your approach. You're not necessarily trying to get everyone, everyone, ever made. You're just trying to get the ones that are in your budget that, that you like.

SPEAKER 1: Is there I like, have you ever, I know you track it. I, I know you have a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER 1: Do you, do you have an idea of like what percentage of stack cards made that you actually own? Is it like 40 50? Do you know like what percentage you might actually have?

SPEAKER 4: I, it's tough. I have around 1100 or 1000, 200 the database says something like 11,000, I think.

SPEAKER 4: But those include all those hundreds of Panini parallels and, and Game Jersey parallels those cards. I'm not really into it but I think, for those cards and chasing might be around, I don't know, 50 60 70% something like this. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Do you, do you have, obviously you have more than one card you want to get still? But is there one at the moment? Like, you know, people use the term gray out card? Is there one that you would really, it's got the top of your list or, or not necessarily.

SPEAKER 4: I mean, a gray card for me would still be, the, the Jambalaya, the, the first two, you know, but they are obviously out of my price range. There are still some, some other very cool cards which I'm trying to get like some those from, from 97 98 ultra, the Star Power Supreme, for example.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, I, I almost got one a couple of weeks ago but it was for 300 it was just too much for me. So I was trying to negotiate but some, some other guy just bought it.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, so it was gone.

SPEAKER 4: But then a couple of those. Yeah, go ahead. Good.

SPEAKER 4: No, no, I just say there are a couple of cool cards that I'm still chasing.

SPEAKER 4: And the Jambalaya. Those would be my, my gray cards. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I think you, you, you got a smart sense about your tor and, and the fact that you have a budget, right? You're not gonna overpay, you, you'll try again. There's more, you know, unless it's a one on one, obviously there's gonna be additional shots to, to get that card at another time.

SPEAKER 1: And I think sometimes as collectors myself included, you know, we sort of get enamored to the point we maybe pay too much or, you know, or I don't wanna say buyers remorse. But afterwards, we're like, man, I spent a lot of, a lot of money for that.

SPEAKER 1: I think you're smart in the fact that you're like, hey, this is kind of what I'm willing to, to do and if it happens, awesome. And if it doesn't, I'll, I'll, you know, try again at a, at a future, future date. And you know, that's, that takes willpower.

SPEAKER 1: So kudos to you for, for having it where some other collectors might, might not. Is it more difficult for you being in Germany to acquire just cards in general? In other words, obviously, here in the States, we have L CS S card stores. We have a, a ton of shows right now. Shows are really on the uptick.

SPEAKER 1: Is, you know, for those who've never been to Germany or not familiar, what's the, what's the landscape there as far as are there, card stores are there card shows that you can go to, probably less than we have. But, you know, for those that don't know, kind of explain, you know, what you have available, at your disposal there.

SPEAKER 4: We, we have maybe a handful of real card stores in Germany. Not, not more than a handful. We had one really big one that, that has opened two years ago.

SPEAKER 4: That, that, that is an amazing store. I've been there last year and it's not just basketball, it's everything. So they have all kind of cards and it's, it's really a hobby experience to go there. Some, some really cool things. But actually, we have, a couple of shows in the past 234 years. They, they have come along and there's actually one in, in Frankfurt.

SPEAKER 4: I live in Frankfurt, Germany and there's one this weekend. So I will attend this. I will, this will be my first show since I think before. The, the COVID thing. I think, 29 was my, 2019 was my, my last show. But they are nothing compared to the shows that you have. We're talking about 200 tables. That's a large gigantic show in Germany. And, and for you, like, I've seen reports of the National this year.

SPEAKER 4: This is crazy. So, I mean, Adam said he, he, he didn't remember where the entrances and stuff like that. Was, I mean, that's beyond imagination for, for us in Germany. So usually we buy, buy our cards via, ebay. But, we use what we use is, is ship my cards usually. Yeah, that's, that's a mailbox. But even that has become very expensive when you're not going for the big cards because you have to ship it there.

SPEAKER 4: So you, you pay like shipping fee, then you have a storage fee there and then you ship it to Germany, which is another fee and then you have to pay customs and, and some tax on this. So what, what I really love is, is COM CC is, is my go to platform to buy because I can just collect the cards and it's, it's stupidly cheap to, to ship them.

SPEAKER 4: It's only five bucks ship them to Germany and then of course, I have to pay the tax, but that's ok. Yeah, and it takes a little bit longer if you take, if you choose like the cheapest version of shipping, which I usually have any problems with that. So that's, but yes, it's, it's way harder, of course to, to do it here Overseas than to buy cards in, in the US. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: You met you, you've mentioned before that you know, soccer is the number one sport in Germany with, with basketball. Coming in second, you mentioned some card stores that you do have card stores in Germany. How would you describe, do they carry a little, you know, everything or are they kind of specialized? Soccer, maybe some basketball or do they try to carry everything so they can appeal to more collectors?

SPEAKER 4: Those, those few card stores we have, they, they are kind of broad, they have, soccer, they have basketball, they have NFL, which is an upcoming sport in Germany. So, and, and also other stuff, like, not so much baseball, just a little bit baseball because baseball is not very popular in Germany.

SPEAKER 4: But I also like those, yo cards and, those, stuff, those, yeah, all those kinds of cards. Yeah, but mainly I guess it's soccer and basketball. Those are the, the two major sports according to, cards.

SPEAKER 1: I is hockey rated, above baseball. In other words, are there more hockey fans in Germany than, than even baseball fans?

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, I would say so because we also have an, a National hockey league, so a German hockey league. So it's a little bit more popular. Actually we have a second sport which is called hockey, which is played on, on the field.

SPEAKER 4: The Olympic hockey. We, we call it ice hockey in Germany, what you call hockey because it, the, and also Germany has, has become quite good at hockey recently. So this is also then gives the popularity boost.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's actually one of the reasons I asked to and I know, I know that, Germany has, has fared a lot better recently, in ice hockey. So I figured, I figured baseball would probably rank near the bottom.

SPEAKER 1: And, and that ice hockey would be, ahead of it for, for, for many reasons, including, recent successes, time for a quick break, but we'll be right back for more than 30 years.

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SPEAKER 2: Sports Card Nation has returned.

SPEAKER 1: You mentioned the shows how often, I know you, you said you're going to your first show, since the pandemic, I imagine you're probably pretty pumped and, and excited, for that.

SPEAKER 1: How many shows, you know, a assuming that there's not a pandemic and that sort of thing and you can get to everyone that's, you know, in a, in AAA good distance from you where you don't have to travel too much. How many shows are, are available to you? Maybe in a year. Potentially.

SPEAKER 4: I, I would guess like four or five. Yeah, something like this.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Ok. You know, here in the States our shows sometimes have autograph guests, you know, sports personalities signing is, is that something, do the shows in Germany do that even with maybe, you know, German athletes or celebrities. Do they try to replicate that like that there?

SPEAKER 4: Yeah. Actually the show I'm, I'm going to go this weekend.

SPEAKER 4: There, there will be lotta Mateos. I don't know if you know him, he was one of the most popular soccer players in Germany in the nineties.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I remember the name. I'm not a soccer expert but the name, does seem the ring, a bell that and, and I'm glad to hear that, you know, people love the opportunity obviously to, to meet someone they, they admire, get an autograph, that sort of thing. I wasn't sure if, if, if they, if they do that, the, the show you're going to, how many tables, I, if you mention it, I, I missed it but how many tables, will be there?

SPEAKER 4: Who? Iiii, I don't really know, but it's, it's the, it's the arena where our loco basketball team of Frankfurt plays, it has about 5000 seats. So it's not a very huge arena according to like NBA arenas, of course.

SPEAKER 4: But I guess it must be maybe 102 100. I, I don't know really, but it's a two day show. It's Saturday and Sunday. You know, I, I don't know. So I'm, but for German, for our relation it, it's going to be a big show. Yeah.

SPEAKER 4: And for you, I guess it would be a rather small show.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, we have, you know, our shows can range towards and we can obviously mentioned in Nashville that's the, the granddaddy of them all. I call it the Super Bowl, of the hobby. But we have, you know, we have local shows that are 40 tables.

SPEAKER 1: There's even one that just happened here recently. I didn't do it as a dealer but, you know, only 20 to 25 tables. So they come in all shape, you know, for, for here they come in all shapes and sizes. I know you've been to the States. Have you gotten to AAA show in the States?

SPEAKER 4: No.

SPEAKER 4: I, I've gotten to flea markets, which was a big thing. According compared to what we have in Germany when I was last time to a flea market was in 1997.

SPEAKER 4: And there were a lot of basketball cards there, at least like 20 to 50 tables that had all trading cards in general. And this was like paradise for me.

SPEAKER 4: And I remember that as a kid.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, we, we still have those. I actually one of my first forays in the even like setting up was actually at a flea market. So it's a good opportunity to, to get cards even at a, a non card show sort of setting.

SPEAKER 1: And that sort of what's what's, what's the market like in Germany for card collecting? Are, are there, are there clubs or do you have friends that collect? Is there, is there, you know, obviously the card community to is, is worldwide as we know the internet and Social Media make the world and the card community a tighter and smaller place.

SPEAKER 1: But even even locally in Germany, is it, is, is there a lot of collectors? Do you know other collectors? Do you have opportunity to either buy, sell or trade amongst yourselves?

SPEAKER 4: I mean, for, for about 20 years? There was nobody I, I even knew. So at the end of the nineties, trading cards completely disappeared from, from German shops. The shelves were completely trading cardless and it, it wasn't until 2016, I joined Facebook because I, I was joining a, just a training group.

SPEAKER 4: And then I realized there were, there were also some trading card groups there and, and there, I, I figured that there was a small community and it was growing the past couple of years.

SPEAKER 4: And now even though I haven't met anyone in person, but we, we chat via Instagram and I know that they are meeting at some places that they are like hotspots in Germany, like in, in the Cologne area are in the Berlin area. So and they meet and they also have trade nights. I haven't participated in one but I think this weekend I will meet some of the, the people I I have been chatting with.

SPEAKER 4: But actually even on Instagram, mostly I, I'm chatting with people from the US but we have a community and it's growing. I see it, I see it especially this, this one store be brother store I was mentioning before. I follow their Instagram and I see their stories and they have a lot of customers and a lot of people that also have their Instagram accounts.

SPEAKER 4: And so the community is coming along and it's also diverse. They are not just collecting basketball. They are collecting all sports and, and all, all this other stuff that you can, you can collect like the Nintendo cards or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER 1: Well, it's, it's, I will say this, it's good to hear that the, the, you know, the German collecting community seems to be growing, as you said, you know, in terms of distance, what is the nearest store like, what's the shortest drive you have to make to get to the closest store for you.

SPEAKER 4: From, from Frankfurt. The closest store would, would I guess would be Cologne, you know, or Lanford is this smaller city near, near Cologne. It's like a 22 hour ride, you know, so.

SPEAKER 1: It's still a little, still a little trip to, to get to the the store, the car show you're going to. How far is that.

SPEAKER 4: That, that actually in walking distance for me? So that's right.

SPEAKER 1: Perfect.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that was set up nicely and it's a, like you said, it's a great opportunity to meet people that share the same, you know, passion a as you do. And you never know right when you meet someone, you say, hey, I collect Shaq cards and hey, I got some and, and, and there might be an opportunity to, to add to to add to your Chile Shaq collection.

SPEAKER 1: Do you have I, I know you got a you mentioned you have a lot over 1000 Shaq cards. Is there one that card comes to the forefront? Do you have a favorite one in your collection or do you just have so many? It's like hard to pick one.

SPEAKER 4: I have a lot of them. But, but two I like in particular. Those are the, the first Game Jersey of Shaq, the 89 89 89.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, 99 Game Jersey and the 99 2000 Fresh Ink Autocrat. Both cards I acquired via ebay. Back in the days, early two thousands when you, you sent an envelope with money to the US and then you waited for like 68 weeks. You, you had no idea what happened. And then luckily one day the card was in the major.

SPEAKER 4: So that was big adventure back then. For both cards, it was 100 bucks, both cards cost 100 bucks back then. I remember this. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that the, or the early days of, of ebay, which, which I remember finally as well. And like you said, there was no paypal or Venmo or Z or, or cash app, right? It was all you made a sale.

SPEAKER 1: You had to wait till the buyer sent you a check or money order. And if they sent you a check, you'd have to wait till that clears unless you took a chance. And so I I'm pretty sure it's good and and then sent, the cards.

SPEAKER 1: And so it was a different, you know, the younger folks had no, have no idea, about that because, you know, we're spoiled now because it's everything's instant, right? We, the, the, the funds go in the account and then we're allowed to, to mail it right out.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, back then, like you said, II, I smiled when you said that because it brings back memories of those early days of, of ebays where one transaction, like you said, could, you know, especially if it was being shipped far away or Overseas, that that transaction could, could extend, you know, like you said, 6 to 8 weeks, potentially, or quite, quite a, you know, where now, now it's less and thankfully.

SPEAKER 1: But, you know, if you're old enough to remember that, like we are, you, you remember that?

SPEAKER 1: You know, I used to have write my stuff down that way. I, I knew I didn't miss anything and I could, I could, I know when I shipped it, I, I tracked all that stuff just literally, by, by hand.

SPEAKER 4: Again, it, it was quite an experience because first you have to research a car, you like, then you have to research a, a cellar that even ships to, to Germany. Then I went to a bank with some euros in my hand and they have to exchange that for dollars. And then I put it in the envelope and it was really, really an experience back then.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, you're, you're exactly right. And, like you said, even with, with converting and, and sometimes even figuring out how much is this really gonna cost me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER 1: It can be tricky too. Well, I appreciate you. You coming on and, and making some time and sharing, you know, I, I think, I think sometimes we're spoiled here in the States to and, and don't realize how fortunate we have and, you know, we've, we've got card stores, you know, locally where, you know, 30 minutes, 20 minutes.

SPEAKER 1: I have one that's three miles from my house and, you know, I, I, you know, I always find it interesting what it's like in other countries and sometimes we kind of take it for granted how fortunate or how close things are for us or how many shows we have and that sort of thing. So, II, I appreciate you kind of sharing some of the German landscape when it, when it, what entails to the, to the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: So people can appreciate maybe, you know, how, how fortunate they are. Maybe they're, they're closer or have more shows. But it sounds like maybe in Germany, you know, you're gonna have, more shows, more, more, card shops, popping up as, as the hobby gains popular. Do you think you'll see that?

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 4: Hopefully, I hope that it doesn't, go away like it went away in the nineties. I mean, in the middle of the nineties there was a market for, for basketball cards in Germany. They, they even printed like German bilingual cards from a, back then, but then it completely disappeared for whatever reason. I don't even know why.

SPEAKER 4: Maybe because it was solely a kids' hobby back then in Germany and the kids grew up and they lost interest, like, it's usual for kids. And right now I, I think it's more of even adult thing in Germany, like people my age are the majority. I don't know what if, if there are enough kids in Germany involved in the hobbies so that it will go on, you know, I, I, I'm not sure about that.

SPEAKER 4: Maybe even more with the soccer cards because soccer is, has always been the number one sport in, in Europe and in Germany and they, they print some cooler cards. I, I don't collect soccer cards but I've seen a lot of them.

SPEAKER 4: They are much cooler, like, but the problem is also if, if, when they become too expensive, I don't know if that works. Like the Panini flawless. I've seen, they, they printed some soccer a couple of years ago but I don't know if, if that will work in Germany when fanatics takes also over and they, they have to keep it a little less expensive because in Germany especially for kids, for kids.

SPEAKER 4: We, we don't have this, investment in assets back around with trading cards. It's more like the sticker collecting background with Panini and so having card packs that cost more than €10 that, that's going to be a challenge. If you don't have like the, the retail stuff for just a couple of bucks.

SPEAKER 1: No, it's a great point. I hope, I hope fanatics and other card companies, are listening, and realize that, that, you know, every country is different. Right. Right. You got different demographics, different financials, different people who collect, and that sort of thing. So hopefully, you know, the powers that be kind of take notice of that and try to, you know, encompass everybody, keep everybody, in the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: I, I think they want to, I just, you know, wanting and doing things to, to get that, done are, are two different things. So hopefully, you know, they, they, they realize that and, and do the right thing. I gotta ask you, you, you know, we, the, the, the National, you mentioned the National, it's our, our biggest show, obviously any, any future plans maybe to, to get to the States and, and attend the National.

SPEAKER 4: Potentially that would be a stretch. I mean, that, that would have to be combined with a family vacation, maybe with my kids and my wife. I never say never.

SPEAKER 4: Doctor Jim asked me this as well. I, I don't know. I, I don't know. Maybe, maybe, I mean, I haven't been to Chicago yet so maybe this, maybe II, I like watching DC. I've been there a couple of times. Maybe someday the nationals are watching. I like the city very much so. That would be chance for me to return there. I, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I like what you said. Right. Never say never. You don't, you don't rule it out and you keep your options open, like you said, you could potentially, if the demographics work out, you can even make a kind of a, a family trip to the States at the, at the same time. And hopefully that happens for you.

SPEAKER 1: I think you, you love it and, and to see that many tables and that many people and, and you know, have there would be, would be awesome. So hopefully, hopefully in the future that that occurs and if it does, I'll get to meet you obviously in person and that will be fun as well. And so hope hopefully, hopefully it happens. But to, I want to thank you for, for making some time kind of coordinating our schedules where it works.

SPEAKER 1: For both of us, if you want to share whether an email, I don't know if you have a website or any Social Media, you know, handles Social Media, handles that way. Maybe if someone has some shacks and they think you might be interested in, they can kind of get a hold of you, that sort of thing, whatever you want to share, feel free.

SPEAKER 4: I mean, I, I have a little Instagram account which is a check card collector underscore de for Deutschland, so to speak. You can contact me there or just look at my collection. I put some posts there a couple of times a week, explaining something about my share cards or talking a little bit about the arts and, and statistics a little bit. Stuff like that. Just, just not, not professionally, just for fun.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And that's what, that's what it's about. It's a good, good note to kind of close on. Right. The hobby, the hobby is fun and if you're not having fun, what are we doing? Right. Why are we doing?

SPEAKER 1: It doesn't make a lot of sense. So, to, and again, I thank you, I'll have to have you back on or maybe, sometime in the near future and kind of get an update on not only your Shaq collection but, the hobby and, and how it's fair in, in Germany as well. Thank you.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It was a great pleasure. Thank you. Awesome.

SPEAKER 1: Having to all the way from Frankfurt Germany and to just coordinate sort of where the times made sense, for both of us wasn't too difficult made it happen. And, he's been on Dr James Beckett's sports court insights, multiple times. So, check, check it out, check those episodes out a as well. And I always, you know, as sort of a student of the hobby, someone has been in the hobby a long time.

SPEAKER 1: I always wonder, like, what's it like in that country? Hobby wise, or, or, you know, does that country even have access to cards or shows or stores? And that sort of thing. So, kind of getting that sort of perspective from, the Germany, always interesting in, in any country but in this case, Germany and, you know, the big car show, he just attended, I am doing a S CD article about, this interview.

SPEAKER 1: Sports collectors digest about, you know, the hobby worldwide and, and specific with a little focus, more focus on Germany, but just, you know, worldwide. So, again, thanks to, to, to, for coming on and sharing, what's going on in Germany.

SPEAKER 1: Just one final comment if I may from me before the outs here, everybody is, you know, be a good steward. I, I believe in that. I think that stuff is contagious. I think it rubs off on people when someone sees someone do something good for the hobby or for someone else in the hobby. But, but not even just in the hobby. Folks even in life. Right. Helping someone else out, helping your fellow man or woman.

SPEAKER 1: Maybe when chips are down or they need our help. That stuff goes a long way. It's a good, that's a good example.

SPEAKER 1: Stewardship and, being a good human. So, you know, that's, I try to do it some days I'm probably better at it than others. But, at least I, I start each day with that goal. Being, one of the ones at the forefront of my mind.

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SPEAKER 7: How do we change the world?

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