Ep.247 w/ Dave Schwartz "Most unselfish man in the hobby"

SPEAKER 1: Here's a gentleman who's a fierce advocate and ambassador for this great Hobby.

SPEAKER 1: He has his finger on the post of the Hobby. However, his voice is nowhere as smooth as mine buddy don't try.

SPEAKER 1: Here is John Newman.

SPEAKER 2: What is up everybody? Episode 2 47 of Sports Card Nation, Happy Friday or whatever day you may be consuming this content as always. We thank you.

SPEAKER 2: You don't do that. We don't exist. It's as simple as that. We have Dave Schwartz, podcaster collector. His podcast is the Shallow End and Dave is, is kind of an old school throwback, for me, kind of, you know, set in his values has sort of rules for himself, but he's a very giving person promotes other people in the space. You don't see that, much at all anymore frankly.

SPEAKER 2: I don't probably do enough. I mean, I'll, I, I'll tell you by having other podcasters on this show, I'm sort of promoting them. I guess that's fair to say. But, you know, he does, he does a lot more of it than I even do. You know, as far as each day kind of telling you what podcasts, were released and available, for download or listen.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, you gotta really kind of, you know, you gotta be kind of an unselfish person, to do that and, he does it and, I, I was on his show as well and, I thought, man, you know, this is the kind of guy, you know, good Hobby people, right. That's what I try to have on the show. And so, you know, wanted to get Dave on and, today's the day. So without further ado, let's get this party started.

SPEAKER 3: Time for our Hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 3: Hello, rookie card collectors. Victor, the rookie card specialist on YouTube reminding you that the Hobby is the people, if you'd like to be the Hobby is the people announcer of the week. Do a wave or MP3 file and send it to Sports Card Nation PC at gmail dot com.

SPEAKER 4: For nearly 50 years. Sports collectors Digest has been the voice of the Hobby. Bringing you comprehensive coverage of the sports collectible industry from industry news, auction results, market analysis and in depth stories about collectors and their collections. Sports collectors digest has everything you need to know about the Hobby.

SPEAKER 4: Also, your leading source for listings of sports collectible dealers, card shops, card shows and the latest from the industry's top companies to check out all the latest news or to subscribe to the Hobby's oldest magazine. Visit sports collectors digest dot com or call 1 808 29, 55 61.

SPEAKER 5: Hobby hotline is the Hobby's only live interactive call in show. Join some of your favorite Hobby personalities every Saturday 11 a.m. Eastern 8 a.m. Pacific and the first Tuesday of each month at 9 p.m. Eastern to discuss the hottest Hobby topics.

SPEAKER 5: If you miss us live, catch us after the fact on all major podcast platforms. Follow us on socials at Hobby hotline.

SPEAKER 2: Real happy to have the, my next, guest on the sports card shop guest line. He's a fellow content creator collector.

SPEAKER 2: Like most of us probably doing this or listening to this and wanted to have him on, I was on his show, a few weeks back along with Jeremy Lee, answered some listener questions about, the National and, wanted to have, wanted to have him on, my show. And, and so here he is Mr Dave Schwartz, from the Shallow End podcast. Welcome to Sports Car Nation.

SPEAKER 6: Hey, John, thanks for having me. It's great to be here and I'm a big fan.

SPEAKER 2: Well, II, I appreciate that, you know, one thing I, I always say this too, we kind when we're gonna get more into the content creation. But the one thing I always say is, you know, whether you're doing it, done it five years like myself or you're kind of new. There's no pension plan, there's no tenure. I look at it as a, a fraternity. We're kind of all on the same team rather than, a competition.

SPEAKER 2: You sort of epitomize that even, you know, I say it but you actually kind of walk that walk, yourself because you, you're so great at promoting, everyone else's, content and, it's refreshing. You don't see that frankly, quite often.

SPEAKER 2: So I, I guess we'll, we'll start there and then we'll get into the card. But kind of where does that come from? Where you kind of lift everyone else up? Was that just, just kind of your mentality, how you were raised? Where does that, get into still from? Well, you, you.

SPEAKER 6: Know, I'm not sure where it came from, going back into my past, but back in March, I found myself really thinking about podcasting a lot. At that time. I didn't have my own but I was really enjoying them and I have a long commute to work and one day just sort of hit me on my drive in when I was stuck in traffic.

SPEAKER 6: How much I appreciated and relied on the, the other podcasters just for their content. But most of us are doing this out of a love of the Hobby or an interest in it and there might be a few bucks here and there that get tossed our way. But for the most part, we're doing it out of passion and doing it for free. And there were a couple of podcasts at the time that had just sort of drifted off into outer space and were gone.

SPEAKER 6: And I didn't want that to happen to others as well. So, sort of selfishly, I, I wanted them because I enjoyed them. But also I really felt that people deserve to be heard. And the only way to really keep strengthening the content part of the Hobby is if people listen, we all say that we would do it if, even if nobody was listening, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

SPEAKER 6: I think there's a certain gratification that comes and great feelings that come when we know that we're being heard. And if we can get a few more ears and a few more eyes onto those podcast episodes, then they will stick around a little bit and people will feel encouraged and they'll feel like they're being heard.

SPEAKER 6: And so that was around March and I started each morning at that point on my Instagram feed just, either tagging everybody who had an episode out that morning or the day before, or putting their logo on the screen. And I figured that was sort of the, the least I can do. I, I didn't really know what else to do at that point.

SPEAKER 6: But I've been doing that each morning since then. So it's going on about 56 months now that I've been doing that. And, you know, II, I just, it's my sort of way of paying it back. What was given me in terms of entertainment and education about the Hobby. Me just trying to sort of secure others.

SPEAKER 6: Has just sort of been my way of saying thank you.

SPEAKER 2: Well, it's, it's like I said, it's refreshing. We probably could use more of it. I'm even looking at myself and I think it says a lot about you, Dave, that you, that you do that, you like that and that you do that.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, I don't know how much time it takes, but it's still, you have to take time out of your day, to do that every day, as you say, it's not like you, hey, here's the, the podcast for the week, you know, here's today's lineup.

SPEAKER 2: And so the fact that you do that on a daily basis, I think, you know, speaks values to the person, you know, I wanna personally, you know, I know, I thanked you off the air but, you know, for those listening.

SPEAKER 2: Thank you officially on the air for, for, for being like that. I think again, it, it says a lot about you and, and I think your podcast, you know, for those that listen and, and hopefully more as well. We learn, you know, what kind of person, you know?

SPEAKER 6: Well, it's been my pleasure and I enjoy your content and everyone else's content as well. And hopefully, as I get more comfortable with my own people will start to enjoy mine as well.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. No, no doubt. I, I believe that will be, the case. And again, you know, I've had the benefit of doing this almost five years. You kind of, you slow build it and then, you know, you, you, you know, where we are today and where we were 34 or five years ago, not even close. So I always, I always tell that to folks.

SPEAKER 2: Like, you know, it's nice to look at numbers like you said, it's nice to know you're not talking to yourself. Although I do that, off the air but, you know, sometimes we put too much, especially early on, in the process, you got to kind of, sort of pay the dues and then, work, work your way up. So let's get into some cards.

SPEAKER 2: We'll get back in the, the content creation side. But kind of, you know, you're a little bit of your Hobby, history, what you want to share. I'm sure you've shared it, before. It's the kind of the, the standard, the standard podcast question as you probably know, you know, what you collect, how you got into the Hobby. And that sort of thing. Sure.

SPEAKER 6: So I really got into the Hobby a little bit around 1982 83 when I was a kid.

SPEAKER 6: But then really just jumped head first in, in 1984. And, from about 84 through 90 I collected pretty heavily, all my extra money whether it came from mowing lawns or umpiring Little League baseball or, or holiday gifts or whatever. I would just put back into packs of cards.

SPEAKER 6: And then, like everyone else, I got a little bit older and, and discovered that going out with friends and driving was more fun and then college happened and then that was sort of it. I, I had a little dance with the Hobby, in the early two thousands where I just bought a couple of cards.

SPEAKER 6: I think one card actually stopped. And then right around 2011, 2012, I read a biography of Satchel page and, just started looking on ebay to see what the costs of cards were, especially the 53 Satchel page.

SPEAKER 6: And, and I thought, this is a lot more affordable now that I'm an adult with a job. Right.

SPEAKER 6: But at the time my kids were still pretty young and it didn't feel like the right time to put my disposable income there. And then so, like, so many others had happened during the pandemic that I came back where, one weekend my wife and my kids, we drove down to Saint Louis where, that's where I'm from, Saint Louis.

SPEAKER 6: I live in Iowa now, but drove to Saint Louis to visit my dad. And he was kind enough over the last 30 years, 25 years to never touch the right side of my closet in my childhood room. And so all the cards were still there stacked the exact same way, in, in rows of boxes, some sets, some binders. And then, so I brought them all back with me.

SPEAKER 6: Even I, I've always been sort of a, someone who likes to organize things. So even back when I was a kid, I was putting my best cars into top loaders. And so the cars that were popular then, you know, like the 83 Gwenn and Wade Boggs and, you know, the 87 Barry Larkin and, and Barry Bonds, those types of cards, right?

SPEAKER 6: They were all well protected and so I sent about a dozen ish off to PS A when I got back. It was right before the big log jam happened. So I was very lucky to get them back in a pretty quick manner.

SPEAKER 6: I sold them all online except for one, that I graded, the one that I kept was in 1991 upper deck, Michael Jordan of him playing baseball with him. It was him at spring training with the White Sox before he actually retired and played. It was just him being a member of the Bulls having some fun joking around at Kissy Park. Right.

SPEAKER 6: Got a PS A 10 on it and the other cards I had sold, I just put back into the family funds and, and paid for groceries. But I said to my wife, I'm like, do you mind if I just keep one of these? I'm kind of feeling the itch to get back into it. She didn't care. She said sure.

SPEAKER 6: And so that's how it all began. And I, in part two of my collecting journey and the first card I bought was an Anthony Edwards bases. Prism, rookie ungraded. I had no idea what I was doing. I was just looking at things online and it seemed like he was food and rookie card prisons were the thing to do. And so for about a year or so I was just all over the place buying things that I thought I needed to buy.

SPEAKER 6: But what I discovered was after about a year, 15 months, 18 months is that even though at this point I had accumulated some soccer, some football, some baseball, some basketball at heart. I'm really just a baseball card collector. It's just who I am. So I got rid of most of the new ones as well and then refocused on baseball and my sweet spot is really about 1980 through 2007.

SPEAKER 6: I used to be, I used to, I used to work, as a sportswriter and, and so I covered baseball in Chicago.

SPEAKER 6: It was the height of Maguire Bonds Sosa those people. And so 1980 was, was Ricky Henderson's rookie year. Rick Lisa's rookie card and 07 was Barry Bonds's final year and it just seemed like the perfect book ends for the players I liked growing up and the players who were the best whom I covered.

SPEAKER 6: And, that's sort of the sweet spot. And as of now, the only active player I have in my collection is Otani because he is already sort of legendary in a way. And I want to be a part of that. But otherwise it's that 27 year range of, of the 19 eighties through the mid to late two thousands.

SPEAKER 2: That, that's very cool. And you, you're lucky, your parents didn't throw out your cards. That's usually how that story, kind of goes and then you kind of start over, but to have those cards still a very cool again from your childhood. Talk about. And I agree, Otani is doing stuff today that we've never seen.

SPEAKER 2: I don't think, I think a lot of people realize that you, me and a lot of other people, but I think there's some people, there's still a segment of the sports world and the Hobby world that don't even realize some of the stuff he's really, doing, early on and if he stays healthy, I mean, he's gonna have one heck of a, a resume, arguably one of the greatest, baseball resumes.

SPEAKER 2: You know, the baseball world has ever seen. And so I'm with you there, but what I was gonna say is with that first PS A submission that, you know, that's your first one ever. You're kind of new coming back. You know, how daunting was that to like, hey, what do I do? How do I package these, that sort of thing? Well, I think.

SPEAKER 6: They say ignorance is bliss. And so I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just setting off the cards that I think were I thought were worth the most.

SPEAKER 6: So in a Henderson, for example, which I think got an eight, the Bogs, the Gwinn, some Barry Bonds type cards. I just didn't know, I thought, well, they're probably the best players and, and I'll just send those off, 74 winfield, you know, Dave Winfield.

SPEAKER 6: So those types of cards, had I known, had I really understood looking at things like the corners, the surface, the edges, the centering all of that. Who knows if, if, if I had have had done more research early on, I might have just thought, oh, it doesn't matter, you know. And at that point I will, I'll just throw them on ebay and be done with it.

SPEAKER 6: But I think, you know, sometimes a lot of life is luck and I think the, the fact that I didn't bother to look it up, even though I'm usually a meticulous researcher with things, I just sort of looked at how to do it and I put him into the one into, you know, the sleeves and put them nice and neat into a full and sent him off.

SPEAKER 6: And then by sheer dumb luck happened to get him in right before the glut happened. I was just able to make some money and, you know, fill our checking account a little bit. But as, as I was doing it, I just, you know, found myself reading more and more and what really helped me understand where the Hobby was going and what had become of it while I was gone.

SPEAKER 6: Some of it was through trial and error just, you know, buying some packs and learning the hard way that, for example, Panini Baseball was non licensed, which I didn't catch for months until I suddenly realized one day that Bobby Witt junior didn't have a Royals logo on his helmet.

SPEAKER 6: And I'm like, wait a minute, you know, those types of things or, reading cardboard connection or listening to, to, to podcasts. That's really how I came up to speed on it. And, when I finally decided to turn my collection around and start going more after baseball, I became heavily involved in card Twitter.

SPEAKER 6: I've since deleted my account because Twitter became a bit of a cesspool and there was too much scamming going on. But I just started doing, I would start doing stack sales.

SPEAKER 6: Yeah, there, there are story sales on Instagram, but there are stack sales on, on and I would just sort of hole up and just do one after the next, after the next I got a pretty good following but was able to flip again. Pure luck before the market started to go down.

SPEAKER 6: So I was still getting pretty good money for base prisms and base chrome and using that money again, I put some into the family checking and then some into the collection and just turning that over until it started to look something like a collection that moved me emotionally and nostalgically and wasn't just something where I thought I'm gonna be a flipper because that's, first of all, I don't really have the Hobby funds to flip.

SPEAKER 6: If I'm, if I'm gonna have some money for a card, I want it to be a card that I want because it has to be either a card I want or a card I intend to flip. But I don't have the funds for both. And so, you know, I was just, sort of through, again, trial and error and just having some fun.

SPEAKER 6: I was able to sort of correct the ship and get it pointed somewhat in the direction that I want. But I think as we all know, a collection is never complete and it's always being adjusted just a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. No doubt. And, you know, you know, Dave, I, I've, I've done this a long time. And I'm still there. I learn every day. I, I always say on this show when, when I don't learn something about the Hobby, especially the Hobby today. I didn't try hard enough, that day or didn't pay attention so, and learn it by trial and error.

SPEAKER 2: I think anyone that's been in, in the Hobby for, for, any amount of time is, can, can attest to, you know, learning, through trial and error. And, we get some Ws, right. It's like, they use a sports analogy. We win some and, and we lose some.

SPEAKER 2: We just hope we win, more than we lose. And we're, we're a little higher up in the standings, you know. We all take that. That's one of my pet peeves with, you know, even contact creation.

SPEAKER 2: I love to hear the stories of, you know, hey, I bought this for five buck and I sold it for, you know, I got it graded and I sold it for 500 but I also appreciate the content creators and it's something I try to do. We kind of tell both sides like, hey, you know, I sold 100 and 50 Derek Jeter sp Rookies, cause I thought he was just overrated Yankee shortstop.

SPEAKER 2: You know, which is something I did.

SPEAKER 2: And other things and I've shared other, you know, like kind of stuff I'd love to have, mulligans out. Speaking of grading when I first got into grading, you know, I was very naive to the point where like I'd look at the card and I'd see something, maybe a, a defect or, you know, a ding corner or something and I would like, give myself a pass like, oh, they won't, they won't see that or they won't do it.

SPEAKER 2: You know, like, I don't know what I was thinking and very early on with my grading, I was getting a lot of sevens and eights and like, what's going on and then I realized, like I'm giving myself a that they're not going to and that you have to, you know, look under magnification and kind of see what they're gonna see.

SPEAKER 2: And then determine whether you want us. And so we learn, right? We always learn through the processes. Like you said, trial and error is a, is, is the perfect term because, you know, that's how we, that's how we get better. That's how we learn.

SPEAKER 2: You mentioned, you know, you've been learning from content creation and, and same here as well. So, you know, and and kudos, you know, the Henderson, you mentioned an eight. That's a, a very good grade for a Henderson rookie as most people can attest to just super conde condition sensitive between centering and just the way that you know, corners and, and whatnot.

SPEAKER 2: So and they did a Henderson rookie, you know, that I would have said that they would have definitely been a six or, or, or a seven. So. So, you know, when I heard you say that I'm like, man, he right after his first submission, he did better than I did in my first submission. Many, many moons ago, you know, I bought.

SPEAKER 6: That card when I was in high school and, and it was in a screw down and I never took it out of the screw down. So it was just, it just stayed in there. So I didn't have a chance to, to flub it up.

SPEAKER 6: Ii I just left it and I think the first time I ever unscrewed it was when I went to go send it in to PS A and I think that is one of the few cards that I've sold where I wish I had had it back and I can, and there's 100 of them on ebay. You can always go back and buy a PS A eight, but it wasn't my PS A eight, but I wasn't at that stage of the Hobby yet where I really cared about it.

SPEAKER 6: But I think at some point a card like that is going to make it back into my collection because it just has so many memories associated with it.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. No, no doubt. And, you know, he, he, I don't think he gets enough credit. I think he's a, a, an underrated player, in the sport. And this is a guy with speed and power has records for leadoff home runs and obviously stolen bases and, you know, kind of gets overshadowed, by, you know, long ball hitters a, a alone.

SPEAKER 2: But, Ricky Henderson was a tremendous ball player.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I think what hurt him, Dave, I don't know if you agree, he kind of played for a lot of teams and I think sometimes when a player starts to play for 456, even more teams, people think they're worse than they are sometimes, and a lot of times that is, sometimes that is the case, but I think Ricky Henderson is the exception, to that rule that he's, he's just, first battle Hall Of Famer obviously.

SPEAKER 2: And, I, I think sometimes people look at sort of the kind of bouncing around and kind of hold it against them, rather than look at the stats.

SPEAKER 6: Yeah, I think you're right. I think that you're right that he is the exception. I think when you play 25 years as he did and not many people can say they played 25 years in the majors.

SPEAKER 6: You're bound to play for that many teams because toward the end, each year, every team and he played for the Angels at the end, the Mets, the Padres, I'm sure I'm forgetting some, I'm sure they all thought the Blue Jays, the Blue Jays, the Blue Jays, the Yankees, I'm sure at the end they all thought, hey, Ricky, great career you're done and then somebody else would pick him up.

SPEAKER 6: But I do think, and you know, friends and I like to have these discussions over beer sometime. But II I always argue that he's one of the 10 best batters in, in major league history.

SPEAKER 6: You always have to separate the batters from the pitchers and I think he's one of the, he has to be one of the 10 best. He, he retired as the all-time leader in runs, scored walks, stolen bases, leadoff home runs, multiple world series. I mean, he had a, he had it, he had it all.

SPEAKER 6: Plus, you know, it just, he sort of, and if you think about cards, he really transcended an era in which he was a rookie in 79 had that 80 rookie card and some could argue, no one knows for sure, like when vintage ends, but some could argue that he was the last year of vintage and then played all the way through.

SPEAKER 6: I think he has cards in 20 03 and 20 04. I mean, by the time the time they have gold refractors, he really sort of was that bridge between eras.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I agree. And great point on, you know, his career was so long you're not gonna, you know, who's gonna, I don't even if Cal Ripken would have played 25 years, he probably would have been on a, a, another team other than the Orioles. So, you know, you play 25 years or 20 plus years.

SPEAKER 2: I don't even care what sport it is. It's not even just, you know, baseball, I think any sport you're probably gonna play on multiple teams, at that point, just with, you know, cap casualties, a team going in a different direction, team trying to get younger, they're gonna move on from you yet.

SPEAKER 2: You could still, you might be able to still play it. I think in Ricky's case, that was exactly the case. And so there was that other team waiting, to pick him up or, or acquire them in a trade and, add them to their life.

SPEAKER 2: So, I think, you know, when you look at the, the record, the record that you, so eloquently, pointed out, he's like you said, he's probably, you know, one of the 10th, top, position players and I don't think a lot of people realize that or, you know, give him that much credit when, when they should.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, I know, I know people sort of pick at him too for not being, you know, a MENSA, guy and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 2: But the guy could play, could play baseball, like very few others, could and, and I think we have, you know, we have to, we have to look at that and, and give proper credit and, you know, a little tip too for those listening. If you have a car that's been in a screw down, you know, a lot of times you hear the horror stories, they, someone unscrews them, they open it up.

SPEAKER 2: Excuse me, the cards kind of stick to each side and you got two cards when you only want one a, a tip that was taught to me. I don't wanna, you know, I, I can't even remember who told me it was many moons ago. You unscrew the, like the top left screw and you unscrew the bottom, right.

SPEAKER 2: And you take a blow dryer and, you know, you kind of, you know, blow air into the top of the, the screw down and it'll sort of vibrate the card where it won't, it shouldn't stick, to the, to the screw down. I've, I've used it, I've never had a card, rip or tear or separate.

SPEAKER 2: I've not done that and not every time I don't want to say that. But I've had cards, you know, stick, to the screw down that's been in there, you know, for 20 years, let's say. And so someone taught me, you know, someone told me do that.

SPEAKER 2: It works. Every time I've done it, I haven't had a, a disaster. So, I've also, opened screw downs without doing that and it was fine too. But if I'm leery that there might be a card that will, will get stuck to the, to the screw down. Ii, I kind of employ that.

SPEAKER 2: It seems to work. So, there you go. Future, future, screw down, tip for, for, for you or anyone else, listening. That might have to, get him out of there. And, I probably somewhere here, I probably still have some, some downs, hiding out with, with cards in.

SPEAKER 7: Them time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but Sports Guard Nation will be right back after that.

SPEAKER 7: Hi, this is Pat Hughes Cubs announcer. Coming to you from the sports card shop in beautiful New Buffalo. Michigan. The Gocher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the sports card shop dot com. Connecting sports athletes, the Hobby and collectors around the world.

SPEAKER 8: Hi, this is Alan Pinkett and I'm here to tell you the Gocher family has done it again.

SPEAKER 8: They've just opened up the sport card shop in downtown Valparaiso, Indiana. And it is awesome.

SPEAKER 8: If you're a collector, you need to check this place out. Tell them Allen sent you and get a free gift on your first visit.

SPEAKER 9: Are you a new sports cards collector or someone returning to the Hobby? Maybe you're just looking for a friendly trustworthy Hobby community to hang out with and enjoy collecting Midwest Box brands has been bringing collectors together for many years with affordable brakes, helpful drugs and a discord group packed with generous people who genuinely care about the Hobby and other collectors.

SPEAKER 9: Check out the brakes at Midwest Box breaks dot com. Our goal is to bring you as much value as possible. Also find us on Twitter At Midwest Box.

SPEAKER 2: Also remember to check out Midwest Box brakes marketplace for brakes packs and single cards from over 300 trusted sellers apply to sell today at ISO dot GG forward slash Midwest Box brakes.

SPEAKER 3: Let's go. You are listening to the Sports Card Nation podcast.

SPEAKER 2: You know, what is your thoughts on, on, on grading, the, the, you know, when, when it comes to like a PC, do you, would you rather have the card graded raw? Does it depend on the card itself to you?

SPEAKER 6: It does, I, I prefer graded but it's not a deal breaker if it's not, I like it for preservation. I like it because it fits better in my box. I like it because I, I know that someone else has looked it over so I don't feel like it's a fake or it's a scam in some way.

SPEAKER 6: There's just a level of insurance and assurance there that I get, from graded cards. Now, I don't need a 10 but you know, a nine is fine as they say. And, you know, the older a card gets the, the more willing I am to have it be a lower grade.

SPEAKER 6: Like I said before, my, my sweet spot is 1980 through 2000 and seven, but I do dabble in vintage a little bit as well. And I emailed not emailed, I messaged on Instagram baseball collector Mike from, from I think the vintage whatever show is called, I'm blinking at the moment but Golden Age of cardboard, golden Age of cardboard.

SPEAKER 6: And, and I was looking into buying a car, a low grade card. And I said, and I asked him, I said, should I buy just the raw card or would you recommend I instead just buy a low grade with a copy I'm happy with and then crack it if I didn't want it into the slab and he said, buy the slab and crack it because then you know that it has, there's a less chance that it's been messed with.

SPEAKER 6: And so yeah, I'm, I'm all in favor of grading.

SPEAKER 6: I can't speak to buying raw and then grading and flipping because I don't have the best eye for grading. So, I, but the more that I collect, the more that I really want it to be created just because I like it to be standardized in my collection. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: No doubt. And, and, you know, it's, it's funny because I, I, you know, I, I'm not gonna rehash it, but when I first started grading, I had a terrible eye. I was giving myself passes on stuff I shouldn't. And I learned to sort of hone that skill.

SPEAKER 2: It's like, you know, you go in the alley and you keep getting beat over the head with a club, you're gonna stop running into the alley blind, you're gonna figure it out. It took me a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: But I did, you know, and I was so I'll start out with a stack, you know, a large stack and then by the time, excuse me, I'm done, it's a much smaller one because, you know, if I can see it with the naked eye, I look everything over the naked eye. If I can see with the naked eye, you know, they're gonna see it on, obviously under magnification. I think we got to be honest, with the condition of cards, it's, it's a skill.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I didn't fix it over night. It took like going back to trial and er, day it took, it took a, a lot of errors, to finally figure it out in the light bulb to go on and, and, you know, be, be, give out this assessment of my stuff and even now with as a bulk sober, right, some people will ask me, John, you know, what do you, what do you think of this?

SPEAKER 2: What do you think it will get? Now, it's all subjective, right. I can tell you, I think it's an eight. I think it's a nine. If it's maybe old, hey, it's a four or five.

SPEAKER 2: I'm not the grader. I always, you know, let the person know. But I've done it, I think enough now where I kind of have a little more knowledge to, to kind of give that assessment. But again, it's really in the eyes of the greater at that time. So I always wanted to reiterate that.

SPEAKER 6: I, I think you're right and I also realize that for the 99.99 repeating percent of us on earth who are not professional graders who aren't using these super microscopes to stare down and find imperfections, we're not going to see it. And when people pop up and say, you know, PS A or Beckett really got one over on me. How could this not be at a 10? First of all? How are we supposed to see that on Instagram?

SPEAKER 6: We can't see it and second you probably miss something or third. It is subjective, like you said, it might be a perfect card and who knows what kind of mood the grader was in that day. And unless you're gonna go with something like tag, right? Which has, you know, which is the A I and has this really fantastic ability to replicate its same score over and over. It's pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER 6: If just like a baseball umpire there, it's, they're going to make mistakes. Sometimes most of the time they will call it right. But sometimes they will call it wrong. And that's why for me personally, when I, when I go for cards now I will try to buy them already. Graded. Be, because that way I don't have to pay for the grading and I already have an idea of what it's at because I don't know.

SPEAKER 6: I'm pretty, I think my biggest flaw in the Hobby, I know my biggest flaw in the Hobby is that I'm impatient and I will sometimes, just even now we take things to my L CS, and have them send it off to PS A and on multiple times, this guy who I'm friends with there who does their grading submissions will say, are you sure you want to send this because he'll look at it and I immediately, because he's done this for a, you know, a long time, he immediately knows it's not gonna 10 and I'll say, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER 6: Yeah, I just wanna have it graded in my collection. He'll say, all right, you know, and he'll, he'll go ahead and do it for me. And then on the drive home, I just kicked myself saying, why didn't I just spend an extra 10 to $50 on the card that was already in a slab.

SPEAKER 6: And I know what I'm getting. And I think as I move forward in the Hobby over the coming months and years, I think the more patient I can be and relying less on instant gratification. I think I'll be happier with how my collection turns out.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, out. And, and you make a great point too. You know, we grading has that financial aspect and, and listen, we both know as everyone else, it's a big part of, of why people grade. But there are, you, you make a great point. I do it too.

SPEAKER 2: I send cards in for grading that have no intent to, to resell ever, or, or flip and they're just staying in my PC. I know they may not grade, what other people would think it should be to, to even send it in. But I just want it, like you said, encapsulated.

SPEAKER 2: It's gonna go in my personal collection and, you know, that's fine, fine by me and I think that needs to, I'm glad you mention that because I think sometimes when we discuss grading and talk about grading, it's very heavy on the financial side and I get why and I understand why, because it's such a huge, it's probably the number one reason, people, great cards, let's be, you know, transparent about it.

SPEAKER 2: But it also is not the only reason. And so we have to talk about, hey, I just want, I, I know this car is gonna get a three or a four, but it's the first car I ever pulled out of a pack.

SPEAKER 2: It has that meaning to me, I want to kind of protect it rest of the way through it, you know, and that's just one version or one story and, and so whatever reason someone has, for grading, like you mentioned, another great reason is authenticated to, you know, it's the, the real mccoy.

SPEAKER 2: There's, you know, there's a lot of, you know, it's always been around fake cards and, and schemes and, and different things like that.

SPEAKER 2: But I think we've seen with that, that she, the Hobby, we've seen that sort of rise up, again to, to new levels and so to, you know, to protect, you know, your car or your, you know, your peace of mind. I think it's more than financial. And so it's good to hear you mention sort of a non financial aspect of, of grading.

SPEAKER 6: You know, there, there was a, when I at National a few weeks back, I was digging through a discount box, which I don't do a lot. I don't have, I wasn't there for very long and I don't also have the patience a lot for, for dollar boxes and discount boxes.

SPEAKER 6: But I went through one and I found a, a 2002 tops chrome gold refractor of Frank Thomas. And it was, I think, 10 to 20 bucks. And this is great. It was clear that the card wasn't mint and, and it would not have been and it was a dealer.

SPEAKER 6: He, he, they would have known not to put it in the box if it was mint, unless it was one of those tactics where they put the Fancy card in there so that everyone else comes over to look for the next great treasure, you know, but I, I actually, that's what I actually did send off when I got back for grading, knowing good and well, it's probably going to be a six or a seven, but this was a playing day gold refractor of a first ballot Hall Of Famer.

SPEAKER 6: And just to protect that, that was my goal. I just, I said this is a card that should be protected. And you from now when I'm done with the card or done with my collection even, you know, I might be 75 years old, like, like Jeremy Lee says, and it's time to cast it off.

SPEAKER 6: Then somebody else at that point, that card will be 40 45 years old and it will be a protected gold refractor of one of the greatest players of his generation. And to me that's worth it as well. Just the preservation almost like a museum piece.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And, and I have cards that would fit that description of, of what you just said like, hey, I'm, I'm keeping it for the uncertain future if ever. And I just want it, I want it kept in the condition it's in now rather than get beat around in a box or whatnot or just even, hey, I wanna have it on display and what better way to put it, you know, have it on display.

SPEAKER 2: But in a, a great card ca case, I want a segue into the National, you mentioned your trip to Nashville, You were there a day, which I've said, I know I came on your show and I said, man, that's, that's tough to do in, in the day.

SPEAKER 2: So, and I'll ask you, I didn't ask you this, you know, off, off the, off the air, but, you know, the difficulties of navigating such a large event in basically a day's time, how you did it and your thoughts on the National itself.

SPEAKER 6: Sure. So for step one was realizing that I wasn't going to be able to see everything and I had to make some choices going in. I knew I wanted to get some stuff I brought, oh, I don't know, 15 to 18 cards that I wanted to trade or sell. And so I did a lot of preparation going in.

SPEAKER 6: And one thing that I did for that is that the cards that I wanted to mostly just get rid of out of my collection were, were Nolan Renado is, is something who I, someone who I collected for a while and I just sort of lost interest in. And so I mapped out about 12 to 15 tables of dealers who were from Saint Louis or Colorado.

SPEAKER 6: And, and almost like the way Bill Walsh used to script the 1st 10 to 15 plays of a football. I scripted, those are the first tables that I'm going to hit. So after I went down the escalator and went into National and nearly spun around, dizzy about how big it was.

SPEAKER 6: Once I, once I got my bearings, I hit those table first and it ii I without boring your audience too much, it took a while, it took a while to get rid of those aeronaut cards because the night before it was rumored that he was about to be traded. And, and so none of the dealers from Saint Louis or Colorado wanted to take him on because, you know, Saint Louis has a huge market, right?

SPEAKER 6: You know, because they have a lot of the South. And so even dealers in Arkansas who, where they have lots of Cardinals fans even. They would say I don't want this, I won't be able to get rid of it if he gets traded. And it sounded like he was going to the Dodgers now. That didn't happen. But nevertheless, it made my time more complicated.

SPEAKER 6: But just to sort of make my time more efficient there, I mapped out where I wanted to go first. I, there's some people who I talked to online a lot for Instagram and I sort of knew I wanted to connect with them.

SPEAKER 6: Wasn't able to see everyone there just wasn't time but those who I wasn't able to meet up with, there was no ill will on their part. On my part. That was just the nature of how big the show was and how much, there was to see and do while we were there.

SPEAKER 6: So I realized that just, I wanted to get rid of some cards. I wanted to buy some cards. I wanted to trade for some cards and I wanted to meet some people and that was it. But that also meant I had to cross some, some things off. I, I didn't walk through corporate.

SPEAKER 6: I didn't walk, I'm not a breaker anyway or I don't, I don't do any breaking.

SPEAKER 6: But I didn't even walk by there because I just didn't care enough to see it. No autographs.

SPEAKER 6: I didn't get to see any of the panels the pa, I wish I had at least gone to a couple of the panels, maybe one panel just to experience it. This, there's always next year and part of the fun of it is just realizing what I do want to do next year. I think. So, I got there on Thursday night about 8 30 which was halfway through the official trade night, parked illegally somewhere.

SPEAKER 6: Walked over, walked right into trade night. It was after the lions had all died down. I basically walked straight in.

SPEAKER 6: Immediately started seeing people who I recognized from their own content and YouTube pages and other people and saw a friend, an Instagram friend right away, made a trade, bought a card.

SPEAKER 6: And then had all day Friday on the floor, went to a the Wolfpack trade night that Rob Gerard and his group put on Friday night, went to bed and then woke up Saturday morning and just drove straight home early for a, for a family event.

SPEAKER 6: So I think if I were to have changed one thing, I would have come in first thing Thursday morning instead of Thursday night. I couldn't again because of a family thing and no, that's great, no regrets.

SPEAKER 6: But even just having two days on the floor instead of one I think would have allowed me to see more certainly, just to experience it differently. So if I'm able to make it to Cleveland next summer for the next National. I'll just give myself a little bit more time.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. No doubt. And I, I'll make you feel a little bit better. Dave, I was there five days and I didn't meet everyone that was on my list. That's a, that's a difficult task, whether you're there one day or, or five days. And I can tell you, I don't know. I think this is my fifth National. Never, you know, I would call that the perfect game if you actually met up with everybody on your list.

SPEAKER 2: I don't, I don't, I actually don't think it's possible unless you literally had an event where every single person on that list attended and they were all there, you know, and not the National floor itself, but just kind of a, an after after show kind of thing, whether it be a trade night or just kind of let's meet here. So, to do it on a National floor, especially with a record breaking attendance.

SPEAKER 2: It's just, it's, you know, II I try to do it every year knowing like I'm not gonna do it, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna go down in the blaze of glory, trying to just, just the same. And so don't, you know, one day or five days, neither one of us accomplished that feat and I had five more chances, five times, you know, the chance you did. So, it, it's just difficult. It's just, you get that many people.

SPEAKER 2: And you're doing, you know, you're constantly moving and, you know, the five days I was there. Ii, I walk 25 miles. That's what my phone said anyway. So you, you know, you, you run a marathon, you won't be able to, to stop and, and, and meet everyone.

SPEAKER 2: So if you, you know, if you, you knock off more, if you meet more, I always say if I meet more than I didn't meet, I, I think that's, that's how I measure whether it was successful, or, or not. I wanna talk, you know, coming down the home stretch here about your show. And obviously, you know, you, like I said, you, you're great at promoting everyone else.

SPEAKER 2: Let's give you a little love here, in return, the shallow when you know, what, what, you know, where, where does the Shallow End, the name itself, come from and, and one thing a, as someone who listens to your show, you know, one thing I appreciate with content creation is genuineness, right?

SPEAKER 2: Someone that's just speaking from the heart or not putting on a stick and, and that sort of thing. You check all those boxes but allowed to get ahead, you know, where you came up when you were deciding on a name, and, and sort of the format in your mind at the time.

SPEAKER 6: Sure. So, in, in terms of the tone that I first that I wanted to strike on the show I read, I read part of a book several years ago now and it was about how to write a memoir.

SPEAKER 6: And I don't remember much about the book, but the one thing I remember most about it that does stick out is that the worst memoirs or the ones that people tend to resent are the ones where the author is not forthcoming is not vulnerable and doesn't really give you a look into whatever part of their life that they are talking about or writing about.

SPEAKER 6: And so, you know, I'm at the time of you and I recording this, I think I've done six or seven episodes, but I decided I was going to be honest and open with whatever it was that I was talking about because if somebody is going to give me their time, then I at least need to give them honesty.

SPEAKER 6: So, one day, Rob Gerard Instagram, the sports card therapist and I were talking over Instagram about something and, and he asked a question about which podcast I listened to and he probably regrets asking the question because instead of me answering with four little lines, I basically wrote an essay back to him about who I listened to and why. And he immediately wrote back. Do you want to do a podcast.

SPEAKER 6: And, and I said, I don't know, you know, maybe, maybe not.

SPEAKER 6: In order for me to do one, I really felt like I needed to have something to say. I, I wanted it to come from a certain point of view and I didn't want it to just be me sort of vomiting up my thoughts.

SPEAKER 6: And so I thought about it for about a week or 10 days and realized the something that I could offer maybe to listeners is the perspective of a collector who will not be doing the high end flips, who very realistically it has to be within a certain budget. But at the same time, really wrestles with the idea and the frustrations of never having the kind of collection that I want to have.

SPEAKER 6: I do have an ego. I do have big dreams and aspirations, but I'm not going to have a Jason Kuns like collection and it's just not going to happen. I will never fight off Fomo, I just have to deal with it. It, it's always going to be there. And so hence the name, the Shallow End, which is where I operate.

SPEAKER 6: And it doesn't mean that I don't have a few cards that are in the three digit range and even a couple that have grown in value to the four digit range. It just means for the most part, if you were to look through my, my watch list on ebay, you know, it's eight bucks, 20 bucks, 15 bucks. And even before I pick one of those cards to either buy it now or make an offer that's $2 off.

SPEAKER 6: I still sit there and I way overthink it. Ii, I think about it for too long because I, well, if I get this 1983 top Dave Parker, that means I can't get the 81 Dave Conception. It, it's that sort of a thing. You have to make all these tradeoffs. And so I told Rob, so, so my, the podcast, the Shallow End, if you search Spotify or Apple podcasts, you might not find it.

SPEAKER 6: It's actually part of the Wolfpack Network podcast and it's under that umbrella. That's where it is. I told him that's what I tend to focus on and I might stray here and there and, and certainly I will, I have lots of interest in content. And so sometimes I actually do a podcast about podcasts, very meta.

SPEAKER 6: So it's that sort of a thing. But the, the where the name Shallow N comes from is because metaphorically that's the end of the pool that I.

SPEAKER 2: Collect and nothing wrong with it. I buy the same cards, right? We probably bid against each other in a couple of those ebay auctions, right? 8 15, 20 you know, 25 bucks for sure. And our watch lists are, are probably more similar than we even realize.

SPEAKER 2: And I think, you know, the Hobby is, is just like, the, the tag on the shows, the hobbies of people, everybody, whether it's high end, mid grade, low end, I don't even like the term low end. I buy that stuff. Like I, I say it then after I say it, I'm, like, mad at myself for kind of, you know, I don't care what price level probably. That's the best way, to say it, Dave, we're, you know, we're in the same fraternity.

SPEAKER 2: We have that, that passion for collecting. A lot of it comes from being sports fans, I think first, I, I won't speak for everybody but I think in a lot of cases that's, the case. And, so I don't, I don't look at someone who buys, you know, a $2 card or a $2000 card to me.

SPEAKER 2: We're, we're, we're still engaging in the same Hobby. So, and at different times we have our incomes might be, you know, we might have more discretionary income. One week then, another week and we have to kind of pivot into what we're buying. I, I've set up my show three months before the National.

SPEAKER 2: I actually stopped buying cards and start just putting money away and, and getting ready, and to buy a, you know, a few cards there that, you know, my PC is Hall Of Fame graded rookie. So, you know, I, I always try to get one or two at, at each National but I have to, you know, shut down buying, you know, about 90 days out from the event to really, you know, sort of have the ability to do that.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, so II I fully get that and then even after the National I, there's a little bit of a slow, shutdown and then slowly, you know, you build coffers, you know, the war chest back up and you're like, hey, I wanna start looking at some stuff or maybe even something, hey, I didn't get that at the National but now I wanna kinda retarget it and see if I can get it.

SPEAKER 2: You know, online for him, if, if you will, but there is nothing that can replace it in, in person transaction, whether that be just a conversation or an actual purchase or, or trade of a card. And that's what you know, the National and other shows do for us.

SPEAKER 2: So, you know, with, with the, with the content creation, we've seen a lot of, of new shows. I was a new show a while back. You know, I get asked sometimes I know I spoke to you a little bit, hey, you know, what do you think it is? Or you know, any advice I always just say, have fun and be genuine.

SPEAKER 2: Because that's where you start. And other than that, I don't, you know, it's, it's, it's people show but we've seen a lot, you know, I'll say it, we've seen a lot of new shows that maybe aren't like Dave Schwartz and, and they're, they're, there's a little bit of, I don't even know.

SPEAKER 2: I, I'm trying to say this in a nice way but maybe not as genuineness or, you know, II, I know, you know, the crossover talked about this recently, you know, using the term clout chase chases, which I've heard and you see, you know, and listen, I post pictures from the National of me, you know, with, with people, but I like to post the, I like to post pictures with people.

SPEAKER 2: I know and have a relationship with, in some form or fashion. Well, we're seeing some of these new folks, they're just, it seems like they're just tracking people down for photo opportunities to sort of build that street cred. I, if you will and, and not do it in an organic way which I, I think I try to do.

SPEAKER 2: The only time I've taken a picture with someone, I really don't know, or have a relationship. It's probably like a, an athlete that, you know, I ran into or paths cross and like, hey, can I, can I get a picture? But like, other than that, you know, and I don't feel like you know someone. Oh, you're a Hobby?

SPEAKER 2: Celebrity John. I like, and I laugh at that because, like, I can go to my supermarket here and no one's saying, hey, man, are you trying anyone from sports? You know, as I put my milk in my, my, that, to me, a celebrity is when you get recognized almost no matter where you are, you know, you're an actor or musician.

SPEAKER 2: Do people like rec and, and I'm humbled by it, but I don't, I don't walk around with that air. I don't, you know, that's why I'm so humbled by it every time it happens. And it's, and it's happened a lot, but I don't view myself like that. I think we're seeing, you know, and not everybody, but we're seeing some of the new folks kind of coming in and I think it's more about that.

SPEAKER 2: They feel like that I gotta be next to this person and then people will take me more seriously. I, I, and I don't even, you know, I'll stick up for them in this sense. Dave. And then I'll get your, your take. I don't think they're being, I just think they're, they're, they feel like they have to do that right. You know, to kind of get, get their, to, to their destination, quicker.

SPEAKER 2: But I just, to me, I rather someone like yourself, and many other to just do it organically. And, hey, here's my Hobby journey. Here's my Hobby story. Hey, here's what happened last week and, and, and, and that, but, kind of your thoughts as being someone that's sort of new. But, you know, pretty soon you're gonna be the of veteran too. So, kind of your thoughts and, and, you know, kind of what I touched on, you know, that.

SPEAKER 6: It's a, it's a really good topic and I, and I'm glad you brought it up And I just, I get often, not often, I've been asked a few times, you know, over the last couple of months, if I listen to all the content, if I listen to every podcast that I promote and the answer is loud.

SPEAKER 6: No, with an exclamation 0.1 I don't have the time and two, they don't all interest me. But the reason I try to support them all and every day when a new one comes out, even if it's not one that I listen to, I include it on my page on my Instagram page of, here's a new one that's out today because even though it might not be my cup of tea, it might be somebody else's and they might not have learned about it yet.

SPEAKER 6: And perhaps if they just stumble across my Instagram feed, they'll think, oh, here's one about soccer or hockey or one, or, or a podcast with the industry insiders or whatnot that I may or may not find interesting but, but they will And so it's a cliche and obviously not my turn but different strokes for different folks.

SPEAKER 6: And if somebody, feels gratified by, connecting with some of the Hobby industry, big wigs or influencers, I tend to think maybe they're doing it not for recognition, but because they really have questions they want to ask them because they're really curious about it.

SPEAKER 6: I know I sometimes get envious of, of their guests because they have questions that I want to ask and I sometimes will, will yell into the, to my speaker if I'm listening, say, why didn't you ask about Xy and Z? Oh, come on.

SPEAKER 6: And so I tend to give the benefit of, of the doubt. Me personally, I just want to hear stories about cards, stories about collecting. I sometimes want to hear tips about how to make myself better. I also, I'm really into podcasts in which the, either the hosts or if it's one host and a guest, if they're talking just like friends and hobbyists.

SPEAKER 6: And it's like, it's almost like you parachuted into, just a conversation and you're a fly on the wall and you just want to listen to it. To me. That's my, that's my favorite where I would be listening to this if I was in person and I'm listening to it, you know, through my phone one way or the other. That's sort of just what I gravitate to.

SPEAKER 6: But I know that there are content creators and podcasters out there who have much larger ambitions. Some, maybe it's financial, maybe it's career related or maybe it's just what they like. It doesn't mean I have to listen to it.

SPEAKER 6: But I, if that's what they want to do, go for it, it's like they say, you know, spend your time and spend your money where you want your time and your money spent and, and eventually what wins out is what deserves to win out.

SPEAKER 6: It, it's, it's a, it's a meritocracy in a sense and, and there are wildly successful content creators out there who I, who I have never watched or maybe listened to once and it just wasn't my thing, but there also are some out there who people really dislike who I think are great.

SPEAKER 6: And so you never know it, it's just, I think everyone just has their own taste. I'm sure there are people who, who don't like my approach. I'm sure there are people who really like it. It, it's just really kind of hard to say and, and, and so I would just say if someone doesn't like something, then you show them that you don't like it by not listening to it.

SPEAKER 6: Don't be a troll. Don't go after them, you know, don't try to get clicks or listens on your own feed by trashing them the best way to make, go away what you're not into it. Just to pretend that it just doesn't exist.

SPEAKER 6: And then over time it won't, and then you won't have to really worry about it so much. Just, you know, it's like my grandfather used to say, just worry about yourself.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I agree. And there's so many different shows that, you know, I, you know, I get asked how many you listen to and I'm like, I can probably count on one hand each week, how many and including my own show. Like I, I, I guess I listen to it in the editing process but I don't actually all the time.

SPEAKER 2: I'm not gonna lie. There's been, you know, there might be some, like I wanna, how does it play out, like listening to it in real time? Like I, I, you kind of lose the feel of it maybe when you were doing it or even through the editing. But generally I don't even do that because like, I, I love that interview. Like we just, you know, we just talked here, for an hour, I'm not saying I won't listen to the episode.

SPEAKER 2: But if I didn't, you know, we can't, and it's just so much content, Dave as you. Well know now that even if you wanted to, even if it was your job, even if someone say we're gonna give you 1000 bucks a day, quit your job, all you have to do is for 12 hours. You know, you got to sleep and eat and, and, but for 12 hours for 1000 bucks you're gonna consume as much ha, you know, sports card Hobby.

SPEAKER 2: Even under those pretenses you couldn't listen or, or watch everything. It's just physically, it's just physically impossible. There, there's just too much so interrupting.

SPEAKER 6: You, it's gonna interrupt you.

SPEAKER 6: I know this won't air until later, so it's not so much a spoiler.

SPEAKER 6: I'm actually working on something right now. It's insane and I al I already regret it, but this week from Sunday through Saturday, I am listening to every single podcast that comes through my feed, all of them. And it is, I already regret it.

SPEAKER 6: It is, it is a mess. So I, I subscribe to a bunch so that I know when there's a new one I can then post it on my IG page the next day. So far, I've listened to 23 this week. This is being recorded on a Tuesday.

SPEAKER 6: I am going to be writing an sort of a diary of how it's going.

SPEAKER 6: And I, and I it's, it's miserable. So John, I support your assertion 100% that nobody should or can listen to that much content because I will never do this again.

SPEAKER 2: And some, and some people in the military would call that a form of torture.

SPEAKER 6: Exactly.

SPEAKER 6: I'm doing this for science, for the good of a Hobby. But never again.

SPEAKER 2: You're a better listen. You're a better man than me, Dave. I wouldn't even let, let alone do it. I probably, even if I entertained the thought it would just be for a minute and then, like, I'd come to my senses but, who knows to you, for, for, for doing that again. I think it shows like a lot of your personality that you, you know, you want to learn.

SPEAKER 2: You want, even if it may be, hey, this isn't really my cup of tea, but for this week, I wanna at least take it in and see what they do and, and how they, their format and, and all that and, and that way if someone asks me, hey, what do you think of it? You say? Well, I only listen to one episode but whatever, you know, that sort of thing, you can kind of give some sort of take on it.

SPEAKER 2: You know that, but I appreciate you. You, you kind of doing it. I will look at you like the sacrificial content creator kind of falling on the sword for the rest of us, but enough about everyone else. Number one, thanks for coming on. Well, I'd love to have you a bad guy and then we can even talk more. But give out as, as I always do with every guest on this program, give out your social medias where your show can be found.

SPEAKER 2: I know it's on the Wolfpack networks, you can make sure you steer, steer everybody, in the right direction. So they can find your content, which I'm a fan of, and like, and, and I'm sure many others and, and more, as the show grows, as well. So, take your time. No rush, give out all that, that info that you want to share.

SPEAKER 6: Thanks Sean. I appreciate that and I appreciate you. You can find me on Instagram at Iowa underscore Dave. I also run the website Hobby content dot com.

SPEAKER 6: The podcast is called the Shallow End and you can find that under the Wolfpack Network, podcast heading there as well and it comes out, each Friday just once a week.

SPEAKER 2: There you go along with this show. So you, you'll be competing. I, although I don't look at it that way, but just tongue in cheek, you'll be competing, with yourself when, when this show comes out, on the Friday. But, or as I, as I like to more say, there is 22 places to hear you, rather than, than one, that day, at least.

SPEAKER 2: So that, that'll be, very good. Well, Dave, I don't need to tell you this man. Keep, keep up, the great work. It's, it's refreshing, what you do and compared to sometimes what we see and, just want to say, I appreciate you and, again, we'll, we'll have you back if you, if you're willing to come back.

SPEAKER 6: Any time, any time John, take care.

SPEAKER 2: Awesome. Getting the catch up with, with Dave. He's sort of a, to me he's like a throwback, kind of old fashioned.

SPEAKER 2: I kind of feel I'm the same way. But, again, like I said, during the interview, one of the most unselfish kind of giving guys, looks at the you know, content creators as, as a fraternity, as I do will kind of promote others where others don't. And he does it more than I do quite frankly.

SPEAKER 2: And so kudos to him, he also listened as an experiment kind of a, a mad scientist experiment. He listened to every podcast that he promoted and I don't know how many hours it was but he, he deserves some kind of award medal or an invite to the White House, but very cool for them to kind of put his money where his mouth is.

SPEAKER 10: Iron Sports Card is your number one source for all your PS A and other grading submissions. Their elite status improves turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers. Their chat rooms, provide updates on all your submissions.

SPEAKER 10: They also offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases. Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sports Cards Group or on the web at iron sports cards dot com or even give them a call at 1 877. Ironps A Rob's got you covered.

SPEAKER 4: For more than 30 years. Robert Edward auctions has been the nation's premier auction house specializing in sports memorabilia and trading cards with significant experience and expertise in all major sport, non sport and Americana collectibles.

SPEAKER 4: Re A has helped clients achieve record breaking prices for their items and has done so with a reputation for integrity and transparency by actively partnering with collectors and enthusiasts throughout the entire process. Re A has created the Hobby's most trusted forum for selling high quality collectibles. Go to Robert Edward auctions dot com for more information on how to buy or sell in their next auction.

SPEAKER 1: That's a wrap for this week. Huge thanks to you, the listeners out there because without you, there is no, if you like the show, we truly appreciate positive reviews.

SPEAKER 1: Big ups to our great guests who drive the show and our awesome sponsors who make it all possible.

SPEAKER 1: Spons Cod Nation will be back next week, but don't forget to catch either Hobby, quick hits or card. Mensches coming up on Monday.

SPEAKER 1: I'll leave you with this.

SPEAKER 1: How do we change the world?

SPEAKER 1: One random act of Kindness at a time.

SPEAKER 1: Remember the Hobby is the people.