Ep.242 Hobbypalooza Live Vintage Roundtable w Leighton,Mark,Jason & Danny

SPEAKER 1: Welcome to episode 2 42 of Sports Coordination. It is National Week. I hope everyone is in Chicago that could make it what you're gonna hear today on today's episode is a pre recorded episode. We did special live for Hobby Pelusa part of the Bench Clear Media Network. They do that every year.

SPEAKER 1: It's a great event two days of not all day, but you know, 24 hours live streaming combined among the two days. Thank you to Bench Clear for having Sports Car Nation once again. So this was a Sports Car Nation live episode on June 25th. So it was Sunday, June 25th. It's on YouTube, but this was not broadcast as part of, you know, on, on sports coordination platform.

SPEAKER 1: So, I'm going to use it for this week at the National. Because being here is, it's hard to record so many of you who listen to the show on a normal basis unless you watch that live on Sunday, June 25th, you've never heard this audio. So again, thanks to Bench Clear for having us. Now, this is audio of audio.

SPEAKER 1: So, sound quality is not typical of what you would hear, but it's actually came out better than I thought so. Not too bad. Joining me on this vintage discussion panel was Mark Hoyle. Danny Black, Jason Schwartz and Leighton Sheldon, of just collect Danny Black, Hobby News. Daily Sports, Paul Hobby Hotline.

SPEAKER 1: Hoyle who's been featured in magazines, Super Red Sox, Vintage Collector and Jason Schwartz. Every J studios and, great panel discussion. We chop up some vintage topics, overrated, underrated, you know, sets players, what is vintage, we tackle a lot of different things.

SPEAKER 1: And so remember this is recorded, about a month ago, actually, a month and a couple of days ago. So you hear us talk about the National coming up when here we are and it's, it's going on right now. So, keep that in mind, but it's the first time appearing, on in podcast form. So I hope you enjoy, and I hope to see you at the show time for our hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 3: Hi, this is Danny Blair with Baltimore sports collectibles. And I love what I do because the hobby is the people, if.

SPEAKER 2: You'd like to be the hobby is the people announcer of the week. Do a wave or MP3 file and send it to sports card nation PC at gmail dot com.

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SPEAKER 5: All right. Good Sunday afternoon. Happy Hobby. Pelusa 2023. This is the Sports Coordination Edition. We're glad to be back. I want to thank first off Bench Clear media, Mike Moynihan and Tyler Wilson for giving us the opportunity to have some fun, talk, some hobby in this particular episode.

SPEAKER 5: If you like vintage, I think you're going to like the next 50 minutes, 55 minute Sports Car Nation where every Friday podcast with a guest, the gentlemen that are on today's panel are all alumni of that show and have appeared as guests on that show and glad to have him on this panel on Monday. So every other Monday we do a hobby, quick hits and to the guy on the left of my screen, every other Monday card matches.

SPEAKER 5: But we do that show live every other, Friday, we have a lot of fun, with that show. So we're on all major podcast platforms, even all the smaller ones, as well. So enough about me, I'm gonna have everyone kind of introduce themselves. We'll start with, Danny. Go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I'm Danny but John gave that away.

SPEAKER 3: And, I am part of the Hobby News Daily. I do card lunches like John said, I'm on Hobby Holand and I work as a private broker, when I'm not on screen and I do a little consulting, but most importantly, I PC, a lot of vintage. I'm a Baltimore guy. I'm working on the 57 set right now and that's kind of my, that's who I am.

SPEAKER 5: Mark, go ahead already. I'm Mark Hoyle. I'm in the Boston area. Mostly a Red Sox collector, but I do break out and I collect speaker box. Rove any vintage stuff with guys that had a title, the Red Sox.

SPEAKER 5: I'm involved with Saber Saber card committee.

SPEAKER 5: Just collect that collect Boston. Mostly anything that will fit on the shelf. I will collect not, not huge memorabilia stuff but anything small bumper stickers, cans, pins, you know, anything like that. That's what I collect. Mostly vintage the format you call Jason.

SPEAKER 6: Yeah, sure thing. So Jason is Heavy Jay sometimes anyway, is also very involved with Saber. I'm a co-chair of our baseball cards research committee. Some folks know, I make little glitter cards as well under the name Heavy Jay Studios.

SPEAKER 6: I grew up in LA, I live in Chicago now, but, you know, Dodger For Light. So I mostly collect Dodgers, going all the way back maybe about 100 and 10 years. But I also have some e tours from that collection and collect Hank Aaron Carl Hubble and Dwight playing.

SPEAKER 5: And last, but not least everyone.

SPEAKER 3: Thanks for having me on the show. I'm Leighton Sheldon, the professional baseball card, Treasure Hunter owner of Just Collect and founder of vintage breaks, collect mainly pre-war.

SPEAKER 3: I would say, I mean, you know, all the, all the obvious guys, right? You know, Ruth Cobb Wagner, interesting thing. But most importantly, proud father to my son Crosby who's eight and as he's getting into the video board. It's really cool. He'll be able to look at these things in future years and see the shout out. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER 5: Very welcome guys. Thanks for, thanks for answering the call to appear. You know, when, when I knew I was gonna go to vintage direction, you guys really came to the forefront to, to talk about this to you, right? The age old question, what is vintage? Everyone has a different, you know, criteria or, or how they judge vintage? I, I like the 40 year rule, meaning 1983 is now still kind of considered vintage.

SPEAKER 5: That's my rule. But at some point, I might have to even look at my own rule and say, I don't know if I can still use that rule because now this year based on the rule might not really be vintage in my mind. So I I still, I still like the 40 year rule. Some don't for you guys. And whoever wants to go first, what how do you define vintage in your book?

SPEAKER 5: Hold on, go ahead, go, go for a I was gonna say, I mean most people are calling out anything 81 and prior to vintage as vintage myself as a guy who grew up in the seventies, I'm thinking mid seventies for me and back vintage. I'm open to something I'm looking at something from 78 79. I opened that when I was in high school. If that's vintage, what does that make me?

SPEAKER 5: So, I'm thinking mid seventies for me, vintage. I don't know about the 40 year rule, but right around there, mid seventies someplace for me. If it makes you feel better. Mark on vintage too.

SPEAKER 6: I'm gonna take it a little bit, same direction as Mark, you know. I mean, I'm, I'm happy to abide by kind of a traditional hobby definition of maybe 1980. I, but in truth, when I think vintage, for me, it's just me and stuff from before you were born. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER 6: So it's like if, if my son collected, he was born in 2007, I could show him a 1998 card and he'd be like, man, and that was from the 19 hundreds. That's old, right? You know, for me, I was born in 69. So, you know, I do think that like mid sixties tops advantage anything older than that, but, you know, packs I actually opened automatically not printed.

SPEAKER 3: I like the role. I, I like what Mark starts saying with the 81 just on the historical difference of the, the change of tops, the dumber and flare.

SPEAKER 3: I think that's kind of a natural break of the print runs, you know, overall and what, what you could buy and how much was in the market. So, for me, I, that's kind of a cut off. That doesn't mean that personally, when I collect vintage, that I want to collect the late seventies necessarily. But that's kind of what my cut off when I talk vintage.

SPEAKER 3: I think that based on what everyone was saying, it's probably similar, I feel that it depends on, I think Jason might have been saying this, who's looking at it. So if you have someone who's 93 versus someone who's 13 years old vintage is gonna mean a little bit something different to each of those folks.

SPEAKER 3: And so, you know, I think if you're looking about it, so if you're looking at it from, you know, a professional standpoint, I think all these answers are great. I think that as far as, like, what's practical. Yeah. My son who's eight thinks that Pokemon first year in 1996 might as well come out in 1910. It doesn't matter to him.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, as far as my personally, consider vintage, yeah, I think anything from, like, you know, fifties and earlier, but there's no right or wrong. That's what's great about what.

SPEAKER 5: I think we'll, we'll sum up the topic, late by saying what vintage is in the eye of the beholder. Right. We'll, we'll kinda, we'll kinda put it, put the question to bed. Right. Everyone's, as long as you're enjoying the hobby, you know, definition is neither here nor there. Let's get on to, you know, when we talk about vintage, right, there's overrated players, underrated players.

SPEAKER 5: Let's go around and kind of, and you can get more than one guys you think, don't get enough hobby, love for the players. They were, I have, I'll hold mine back. But I, I got a feeling some of you might mention a few of those guys who ever wants to chime in here guys that are, you know, value wise are still just great buys for the career they had, I guess when we talk about underrated.

SPEAKER 3: Can, can I take some long hanging fruit?

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: I still think Willie Mays is underrated.

SPEAKER 3: May, maybe that's changing in the last couple of years. But, if we're talking about that level of player, to me of all the all time greats, he, he, you know, in baseball, in baseball, I, I don't think he quite gets the respect.

SPEAKER 6: I like that. I mean, I, I jump.

SPEAKER 5: Jump in with some of the, some of the pitchers I watched pitching in the early seventies that don't get the love. Jim Palmer. Juan Mar show Hao Perry.

SPEAKER 5: Tom sever even.

SPEAKER 5: I think those are four Frank Robinson who belongs fifties to the seventies vastly underrated in the hobby as a whole on my, in my opinion.

SPEAKER 6: I have there, I'm gonna kind of give some hints in that eventually you might get it. So, here's a guy he's got one of the highest career slugging averages of all time. He's got a 50 homer season. He missed three years of his absolute prime to World War Two.

SPEAKER 6: He has hardly any, mainstream baseball card issues because when he played, right, it was like 19 forties, there weren't a lot of things happening and, you can get, I would say his 52 tops card is one of the most attractive in the set. And literally two of them sold this past week on ebay for around 10 bucks. And that would be Johnny MS.

SPEAKER 3: Do you guys think that multi players are always hurt a little bit by playing in two cities?

SPEAKER 3: I mean, I think that, you know, they, they might be hurt in the sense of their value in terms of like what's best for that individual player, you know, who knows? But I agree with you. I think generally, players that stay with the same team their entire career. It does. You know, it seems on average that their cards are, are a little better off.

SPEAKER 5: See a lot of stand usual in the chat room. That's probably my, one of my top picks for, for underrated, vintage ever players stand the man, you know, playing in Saint Louis, which is a baseball town but not the New York's, you know, of the World. And, so I, I think he's still to this day is, is underrated.

SPEAKER 5: Even some other sports, I see some comments, Reggie Miller, in basketball. To me the basketball underrated guy is Oscar Robertson. I, I don't think to this day we talk a lot about a guy who rent average a triple, double. Obviously he's a Hall Of Famer but in the hobby space he does.

SPEAKER 5: I don't think we talk about a guy like that. Nearly enough, even in football, know, he's revered but Walter Pagan when you look at what that guy even did, you can still buy Walter Payton rookies. I know a lot of it has to do with how many exist but still a great, buy.

SPEAKER 5: But that I missed one game in his whole career as a running back and it was his rookie year and he, it was heed his ankle and he would have played, it was the team doctor that wouldn't let him, get on the field. So, you know, just some and I agree too with Willie Mays, with Danny.

SPEAKER 5: Right. I think he played sort of, you know, under the shadow or, you know, with the, the mans and, and, you know, that, that kind of leads into the next question. The reverse of, of that is overrated players. We go one more, one more in the back. Yeah. Go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: Go ahead. We'll go ahead. You do one more.

SPEAKER 5: Well, you, I, I didn't know we're gonna do basketball, but if you're gonna throw Oscar in there, I'm gonna throw Elton Baylor in there. Go check out what he did and look at some videos the way he played, just throw it out there.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. John, I just wanted to mention, well, I know you want to talk about signatures for soldiers.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah. So a, a Pelusa is a charity of choice, much like the, the National, his signature for soldiers. Tim Berg does a great job, started about five or six years ago with a $500 goal. He's raised, six figures. He's over $100,000. All proceeds, all funds go to injured and disabled veterans to help them with their needs, whether that's building a wheelchair ramp onto a house or things along those lines.

SPEAKER 5: And so Tim does it out of the kindness of his heart to be set up at the National. Many athletes have gotten involved with the charity and have signed Cleats and bats and guards and that sort of thing when all proceeds raise, go to that organization. So you see the email address there, goods and services via paypal at the bottom of your screen. It's a tax write off as well and, it goes to a great, a great cause. So, all right.

SPEAKER 5: So, you know, and you said this pitchers too, right? It seems like baseball, legendary pitchers. I see Warren spin mentioned in the chat room definitely underrated. Even Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson. Bob Gibson is another guy of a Yeah, they just, why do you, I guess maybe another question. Why do pitchers not get more love? Especially of the vintage variety. They've already done everything, right. They won their cy Youngs.

SPEAKER 5: They, they've gained entrance in the hall. Why are people seem to be reluctant to give them? You know, I get it nowadays in the modern age, you don't want to make me buy some modern day pitches because that arm injuries. But these guys have been there, done that. What is it that people are still a little leery or, or, you know, it seems like they don't get enough out of luck. Anyone here that wants to jump on this one.

SPEAKER 3: Can I give my, my crazy theory?

SPEAKER 3: They don't, they don't hit a home run. There's no, there's no play, there's no spectacular highlight whether you see them in person or Sports center, you rarely see a well game on top 10 plays.

SPEAKER 3: You know, and so I just think that you don't have those moments quite as often.

SPEAKER 3: You know, for pitcher moments you have Vince Scully maybe calling Koufax's perfect game for, you know, the end there, but there's so few pitcher moments that are captured. I just think they don't get, you know, they don't have the home run and, and those types of plays. Yes, it's not romantic.

SPEAKER 5: Great point. There.

SPEAKER 5: So, saying chicks did the long Balls the, the short way.

SPEAKER 5: Is that, what is that right? Is that correct?

SPEAKER 3: I think you said that.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, I, yeah, I get, I get that, I just, you know, these guys are, are they done? Like, the, the record speaks for themselves? I mean, I like it because I get to buy them probably cheaper. So, I, I, you know, I'm not complaining but, their pictures are boring. I don't know. I don't know. I guess, I guess they are hobby, hobby wise.

SPEAKER 5: I see Jason at the Hall Of Fame in March and they had a great movie. It's about a 20 minute movie and I would say 15 minutes of that movie dedicated the guys. Beautiful, you know, home runs at one game space at one World. There's very few of a picture on.

SPEAKER 5: It was a, it was a great movie. So, take it for what.

SPEAKER 3: It's worth.

SPEAKER 6: And I would, I would just add, I mean, I don't know that this drives a lot of the lack of hobby love but when you think about a pitcher who comes up and he's awesome. Right. Like, I mean, I'm hoping, if there, if there is game three, I'm hoping there isn't, but if there's game three, Paul Skis LSU. Right.

SPEAKER 6: Is he gonna win 511 games? No chance? Is he gonna strike out 5000? 700? No chance? Is he gonna make the top 10 lowest, er, a s of all time when there's dead ball dudes at like 1.8 and 2.0 and 2.1 no chance. Right.

SPEAKER 6: And so to a certain extent, I think the kind of the different eras, the four man rotations, the three man rotations dead ball, they've just rendered like all the interest in pitchers records completely unassailable. And so you can't even kid yourself that, hey, you're this guy that might break some all-time record of interest, right?

SPEAKER 6: I mean, you wouldn't even expect to throw eight no hitters because at this point, you wouldn't even expect a stead pitcher to throw eight complete games.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah. And yeah, they changed, it, changed their mountain height because Bob Gibson, that's, that's true. I mean, there, there, there's been Hall Of Fame batters that said that they were scared to bat against anyone. His name came up quite a bit so Sandy Koufax as well and others too. All right guys, we kind of did the underrated. How about overrated guys not to take nothing away from them.

SPEAKER 5: They're, they're obviously gonna be Hall Of Famers, but they just, when you compare them to some of the underrated guys, they're sort of the, the image the other way they're bringing some, you know, maybe more than in your opinion, maybe more than they should based on how they rack up in comparison to their, Patriots of the time they've played.

SPEAKER 3: Can I take the unpopular opinion of Derek Jeter?

SPEAKER 3: I know he's not good, but I got, I, I live in Baltimore and so him and Jeffrey Mayer, I'll, I'll make that a combo.

SPEAKER 5: But I get an unpopular one. I, I've been running polls recently, best player in each position for the seventies.

SPEAKER 5: I did it in the eighties and I'm not just saying somebody's underrated is not saying they're not good. Let me prep it by saying that I'm gonna throw out Nolan Ryan, I ran my seventies poll. He ever won it.

SPEAKER 5: But all those other guys I mentioned previously today hardly got anything. And Ryan jumped in on both of them seventies and eighties. I must say he's not good. A ton of no hitters is great, but yeah, he lost a lot of games but he, he, he, he pitched a ton of innings. That guy.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree. I see a couple Manel guys that would be and I'm a New York City kid. I'm a Brooklyn, New York kid.

SPEAKER 5: And man, like you said, we're not saying they're not good. I just think he just gets a lot of, a lot of extra love, man and man, that guy, to, to me. So, man, my, my kind of head that sort of list, on the baseball side again, would I, you know, do I have mantle cards?

SPEAKER 5: Do I love getting more when I get them? Sure. But, you know, they bring, they bring a lot of money and sometimes, maybe more than more than they should occasionally. And Jason, who comes to mind for you guys.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I grew up, I, so I am an avid Jets fan, so I've never seen Joe Natives playing. I'm very grateful that he brought the one championship to the Jet that they had. But I had heard, you know, from my father included that as much as Broadway. Joe did bring the Jets a Super Bowl title. He really is, is fairly overrated versus like the great quarterbacks of his era.

SPEAKER 3: And, you know, I don't know if that's true, but I think it's an interesting topic to bring up for those who did see him play, doesn't he have more interceptions than TD passes? I think Terry Bradshaw, I think Terry Bradshaw is on that list also.

SPEAKER 6: Quarterbacks on that list.

SPEAKER 5: Listen, I think a lot of the quarterbacks from that era, it's a great point by Leon. If you look at the statistics, they're, they're almost at like 500 with P DS and interceptions. Terry Bradshaw is right there as, as, Danny just said again, it wasn't, it wasn't a passing league in the, in the way it is, today.

SPEAKER 5: So, in their defense a little bit. But if you looked at some of the numbers compared to today's quarterbacks. It's, it's underwhelming for sure. And, you know, Joe NAMI was probably known just as much for the off the field, the commercials. He had, he had his own talk show, for a year where he had come on posing and panty hose during the commercial made a lot of noise and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 5: So, yeah, NAMI, and football is probably a good one as well. And like Miller says, Nolan is a 500 pitcher, you know, I think the no hitters and, and the, the, the endurance, right? He would, he would pitch into extra innings of games and not come out.

SPEAKER 5: Now, we know in today's game, you know, five innings and you, you know, if you go more than five innings, you're kind of the, the, the unicorn rather than the, the norm now in, in, in workload. So, Jason, you, you, you love numbers like who, who in your mind gets too much credit for, for their body of work, I guess.

SPEAKER 6: Well, I'm, I'm gonna pick up on, what a number of people in the chat were going with. I mean, for me, the poster boy for overpriced cardboard is mantel and, but I, but I want to give a little bit of historical perspective.

SPEAKER 6: I think things are actually correcting a little, I'm not saying to the folks holding mantels out there, your stuff's about to lose all its value. That's probably not happening. But when I was a kid going to car shows, right? If the mantle was 100 the Aaron, the Mays were 20 you know, the Clemente was 10. Right?

SPEAKER 6: Nowadays, I think Jackie Clemente, maybe a little bit Willie Mays are sort of catching up. I'm not saying they're there, but I would say they seem to have moved more than, than the Mick, right? Maybe the exception. 52 tops, I will say as far as the mantle, underrated cardboard, 51 Bowman rookie, right?

SPEAKER 6: You know, but to me, the 52 tops mantle, I mean, just the ridiculous prices. It's treated like a rookie for whatever reason.

SPEAKER 6: I don't think it's a very attractive card.

SPEAKER 6: And the career numbers take away New York and the rings and I know obviously the rings are worth something but take away New York and the rings and you look at back at his card in the back of a Frank Robinson. They don't look that different. I said Frank has 50 more homers.

SPEAKER 6: So, but I also want, I want a new one guy, I'm, I'm attacking some sacred cows in the highway down but to me, the Wagner as well, but let me not just say, be Wagner, I'm gonna say, oh Wagner Cards. I think that something kind of irrational is the sky high price of the T 206 has made Wagner in any set a very very, very expensive card.

SPEAKER 6: Now, he was clearly one of the best, maybe the best player of his era. So that's not, but I'll just say it seems like any Wagner is price as if, you know, there's only 40 of them in the World. And so, you know, I'm staying away at the moment.

SPEAKER 5: Well, let me, let me turn to the guy who probably runs into more Wagners than the rest of us combined, right? And then Leighton your your kind of thoughts on maybe what Jason just said that maybe an iconic card kind of inflates others.

SPEAKER 5: You know of that. I, you know, it's interesting.

SPEAKER 3: That you brought it up Jason and John at the moment and you know, I I do have a a few homeless wagler cards. I do not have a to six. I wish she did.

SPEAKER 3: So the market for homeless wagler cards other than a Tito 06, John is actually doing what you just said, but it has been doing that over the last several years. I really feel in the last six months to a year that the M 1 16, some of his ecards, Wagner cards have really heated up. But if you look on ebay, there's really not that many available.

SPEAKER 3: So if you look at for example, like Ty Cobb, Ty Cobb has a lot more cards available for sale. Babe Ruth has a lot more cards available for sale. So I'm not comparing them as players. It's not what I'm doing. But if you're saying, hey, they're upper up Shaw Hall Of Famers and, you know, the prices are what they are.

SPEAKER 3: Well, maybe, and I don't know, I don't have the statistics, maybe he's available in less sense. I'm not sure what the scoop is, but at the moment he's definitely hot and if we're talking fucking vintage, one of the things that I would advise and I think it would be fun if we could all talk about this at some point to kind of give our own little tip for the nationals about 30 years away.

SPEAKER 3: But one of the things I advise I'm curious with began here, thanks to the people on the chat as far as vintage goes is do not chase in a lot of cases, these players have been deceased for a while.

SPEAKER 3: So if the Wagner market is high, like don't get up in the morning and covet having to own the Ho Wagner, there's literally hundreds, if not thousands of other players you could own and just do yourself a favor, wait till it settles and you know, what's the worst that's gonna happen is that the market kind of settles and will cost you just a bit more than it did before, but it's very unlikely that you won't be able to obtain one.

SPEAKER 3: And I don't like the chase and I tell friends clients you know, family, whoever is interested in buying it in cards and if someone is hot, just try not to buy it. That's it. It's very simple advice. Just wait till it settles and then take a look at it to go.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah. And by the way lane there's 32 days to the National but who, who's counting? Not, not me.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, but it's a great point. Lane. Right. Don't, don't reach right. Don't, it's like reaching for a draft pick, right? There's other players on, on the board. Better, better value. Wait till it sort of falls. It, it makes sense or falls more into place.

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SPEAKER 2: We are back.

SPEAKER 5: Speaking of international, that's actually one of the questions I had for today is, you know, we've seen the market sort of calm down in, in, in some cases, mostly across the board. There's some exceptions, obviously to that rule where no matter what's going on in, in the academy there, there seem to be, you know, bulletproof of that.

SPEAKER 5: And, and, and kind of what you just said, like, you know, how, you know, you, you set up at, at the National every year, you know, just kind of, you know, where the market is a, as you head into the National uninvited side, of the hobby. I mean, I think the market.

SPEAKER 3: Is really strong but it's a little bit more subtle than it was 12 months ago around the National. And I think that's a good thing. Listen, everyone wants their cards to be worth like the next record setting price.

SPEAKER 3: You know, you want to look at your Clemente, you want to look at your mantel or whatever it is and say, oh, my goodness, the last one was sold for 25% more than the previous one. But I, I actually prefer it when it's a little bit more calm and steady.

SPEAKER 3: I think that it's a little bit easier to, to buy, to sell, to trade. So I think, you know, from that perspective, going to National, it's a little bit better.

SPEAKER 3: You know, other people would, would say, you know, they'd rather have a super hot market. I prefer one to be a little more.

SPEAKER 5: Jason the nationals in your backyard this year. Like, you know, what's your plan to do? You go in there with like cards on the list to like this is what I'm trying to leave when the show is over. I hope I owe these. What's your like, what's your kind of modus operandi when it comes to acquiring cards at a National?

SPEAKER 6: Yeah, I mean, you said it, I do bring a list. I'm also the kind of guy that like when I walk home with maybe zero things that were on my list and, you know, 20 things that weren't.

SPEAKER 6: But yeah, the, the the last time I was in Chicago, I went in, I was collecting, trying to complete my Dodger team sets for 51 Bowman and 34 to 36 diamond stars, I think I got all but one that I needed this year, I'm trying to finish up 39 and 40 play ball for Dodgers and, a little bit now looking at those tobacco era blankets for the Dodgers, but that's probably more of a long shot.

SPEAKER 6: So, yeah, I mean, those are the lists I go in with but, you know, I, if I see a cool card and it seems like a good price for her to say.

SPEAKER 3: Now.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, you describe when I go grocery shopping, the 20 things that are not on my list, I, I'm a little more disciplined on the card side but, I hear you, I bring some stuff on that probably wasn't on the list. Mark. You're, you're not unfortunate. We're not gonna see you at the National. That doesn't mean you don't have a card. You don't buy cards. I know you're predominantly a Red Sox guy.

SPEAKER 5: But like you said, you'll, you'll veer off sometime. What, what kind, where, where's your mindset now when it comes? Is there a, a card that you're, you're really trying to target? I don't wanna like I need a, there's a couple of ecards, speaker, a young I'm looking for, trying to fill out the Ram set, which is, I don't know why, but there's like 18 Red Sox cards in that set, which is more than double any other team.

SPEAKER 5: I still need the 34 premium. Williams. And because of Jason, the 34 to 36 diamond star set is actually two Lefty Groves because there's two backs. So I still need another one of those now. So those, those are what's on my list now? That too, I need a couple of, I need one, T 207 to complete again. They have 18 Red Sox in that set more than any other team.

SPEAKER 5: So a few cards like that, that's what I'm looking for. I'll just chip away. No, they did that just for you. They knew years later you'd be become a, and the 207 is the last, the guy's last name is Bushel man. And it's a short print and any time one comes up, I'm not the only guy looking for it. It's like 30 guys are bidding on it at once. I'll get one for a little.

SPEAKER 5: Any, any, any thoughts on you. Listen, you, like you said, you, you, you broker, you can sign your thoughts on the current vintage market.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I, I think it's a good time for a lot of stuff, but am I allowed to go shopping at the National also?

SPEAKER 5: Yeah. Just don't tell me what you're looking for. I'll probably buy it out for my year, like last year. Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: And this is a good time to point out if you see a card at the National that you want to buy, buy it. Don't wait and come back later, it might not be there.

SPEAKER 3: I found a car last year that I was determined to buy. I left for lunch and, and at lunch, John pulls out this card and it was the card I was gonna buy and it's the exact card I knew what table it was from, what the other and he pulled it out, had lunch on me.

SPEAKER 3: And so my lesson is if you're going to the National and you see something you want, just buy it, don't worry about it. Just if you find something that you love and it's in your budget and, and, and that just, just buy it.

SPEAKER 3: So that would be my advice, vintage in general. You know, it's not about what it's worth tomorrow. It, it, it's a, it's a, it's a long term. It's, it's about understanding the history of the cards and the player. So I would say there's never a bad time to buy vintage, you know, for the right cards.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I agree with layman's, you know, theory. You don't want to buy anything that's, that's got a lot of hype and it's too hot. But other than that, there's never a wrong.

SPEAKER 5: Time to buy what you love going back to LA. And we had that crescendo late and you're well aware of it where cards are making financial news. It seemed like every other day as someone who travels and buys collections now we've seen the market sort of settle down, kind of calm down a little bit in. What market is it easier for you to obtain collections? Is it now, or, or during that crescendo?

SPEAKER 3: And why, I think now, and the reason being is what I found during the craziness, you know, the run up is the problem became anyone who found a Clemente rookie, a Jordan rookie, whatever it was, swore that the next one was gonna sell for more.

SPEAKER 3: And to be honest, they might have been right, depending on the time period. Right. And so it's really hard to buy something when everyone thinks it just keeps going up. So when you have some stability and you think that I'm just using Koufax because it just showed that I don't mean to rub salt in the of Danny.

SPEAKER 3: But, as far as like a ko rookie, right? You know, if a ko rookie is $1000 whatever that grade, you know, might be, call it about a five ish. Right. You know, it should be about the same price, you know, give or take a month later after the National. So like those are the kind of cards to me that are a little bit easier to buy.

SPEAKER 3: Whereas if someone thought that their $1000 Coke will be 1500 they're like, you know, I want $1000. Well, I can't pay you for what it might be worth in a month or two, they're like, no, it's gonna sell for a record next week. So I, I do like stability.

SPEAKER 3: Of course, I'm also a collector so I, I want my cards to go up.

SPEAKER 3: But I'm a, you know, a professional Treasure Hunter and I do this for a living. And so for me, stability.

SPEAKER 5: Is, is what I see. Ok, Cho and Danny's lost work. He is now the stuff of legends.

SPEAKER 5: There is, there is a happy ending to this story. Danny does have a Koufax rookie now. So we, we definitely gotta, we gotta like put that that chapter in the book.

SPEAKER 3: No, John John, the story is just never going away. It has nothing to do with whether I bought something like.

SPEAKER 5: Well, no, it's just the last chapter. We can't just talk about the front of the book only. There's a happy ending, right? Like a lot of Disney movie. There is a happy ending so I'm very happy with my, all right guys, I, I used to be more of a set collector than, than I am today.

SPEAKER 5: Just I think mainly because of limited space but what is either an underrated or overrated set when it comes to the vintage market that you, you're either fond of or you think man, this is in the overrated case, like I don't know why I'm not doing this set. Number one is what? Too expensive and I just don't think it's that great. E either side of the coin that someone wants to jump in on, on that on.

SPEAKER 3: I'm gonna go first guys just because I got a small group the other day and I hadn't had a group in a long time.

SPEAKER 3: And I don't, advocate to do the set, but as a type collector myself to own one of these, even if you own a common, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER 3: But I got about eight or nine Turkey Reds grated in a collection of some sixes I bought and even the ones of those, I mean, the cards are just beautiful and so to give everyone some perspective here, you know, you could buy a, one of a Hall Of Famer like a Roger Reshan in an authentic or a one for about $300 and it very well might be the best looking card in your collection.

SPEAKER 3: So if you care about aesthetics, even if you want to own a Hall Of Famer, like you don't have to go after the cob the young and the Maddy even though they're all on the set.

SPEAKER 3: And you know, going after the set, as you said, John, it's like Hugo dollars. So, you know, no one's, you know, thinking that's a good idea. I'm recommending is an investment but purely for enjoyment. Yeah, you're going to the National and you've never owned the three, which is the Turkey red, the oversized parts for those who don't know exactly.

SPEAKER 3: Check them out at the National, pick them up for your collection. You can get a common, low grade one for 100 bucks. They're amazing.

SPEAKER 5: I, I would agree 100%. I have seven of them right up there.

SPEAKER 3: They're beautiful. See, now, Mark, you're bringing up business on the show. Now I'm gonna have to email you after pretend that we're friends. By the way, Mark you're interested in selling stuff. Turkey red.

SPEAKER 3: He's hunting for treasure. He's hunting for the treasure.

SPEAKER 5: The Hassan triple folded, underrated set.

SPEAKER 5: Then I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw one out in a whole, a whole era of the sixties test issues and inserts.

SPEAKER 5: I think they're cool as hell. I collect them. She gave some, some of them are in there. Listen, we had this conversation on, on my show. Hard, hard to find and, and, and probably undervalued based on that. Some people don't even, you showed me some stuff I didn't even know existed. Some test stuff that, maybe went out the back door. It's funny.

SPEAKER 5: I'm looking in the comments and I see 48 moment is underrated and 48 moment is overrated. So I guess it depends who you talk to and, and what day, what day it is. So, you know, yeah, you got, it's like you got people outside your door. Leon will be there as soon as he can, as soon as he can get there, they're only Red Sox late. That's it.

SPEAKER 3: I think the speakers and stuff.

SPEAKER 5: Right.

SPEAKER 5: Yes, he is 35 36 W Jason. You know, to, to you, I know you do have Dodgers but you, you know your stuff. That's why you, you know, no, man.

SPEAKER 6: You know, I think Leighton just nailed it. I mean, the Turkey Reds to me are about the most gorgeous cards there are but two contemporary issues that I think don't get quite as much love. They're kind of, they're kind of the you know, little cousins of T 206 or the T 205 Gold Borders.

SPEAKER 6: Those are just gorgeous and in particular. So for me as a Dodger guy, I've got, you know, the no ones but the minor league subset from that group. I just thought those are maybe the most gorgeous cards of the twenties century.

SPEAKER 6: Another beautiful set from right around then again, very close to T 206 but the west coast version, T 2 12.

SPEAKER 6: You just have like the T 206 everything you like about T 206 except good players.

SPEAKER 6: But then crazy art stuff like not just sunsets but like skies that are melting and purple, like ridiculous stuff, right? And to me, the fact that you don't know who any of the guys are, it just adds the charm but, near and dear to my heart because everything I just named is expensive.

SPEAKER 6: Diamond Stars 34 to 36. That's my favorite artwork. I think the set doesn't get a lot of attention because there's no roof, there's no geri, it's got just about everybody else. And to me that's the best art of the 19 thirties.

SPEAKER 3: Jason. I think you just like any set that starts with diamond.

SPEAKER 5: Yes, I want to go back to the Turkey red again because I know to puts out Turkey red cards and they're the size of a normal card. If most people might not know a Turkey red card is big. I don't know what the actual size are that the cap in the card six by eight. A lot of people might not know that they're pulling Turkey Reds out of packs that are normal sized cards.

SPEAKER 5: These guys are big and beautiful. They're like a piece of art. So the long, that's a beautiful set just popped up. Yeah, lot, lots of, lots of, candidates in the chat room. Thanks guys for being interactive and listen. You're right, in your opinion. No one can argue, with your opinion. Right.

SPEAKER 5: It's, it's like I said, I see both sides have 48 moment for whatever reason. Overrated, underrated, say two different people, two different opinions. There, neither one is wrong, right. That's just how it goes, Danny. I we didn't get your answer. I don't know if it was taken because we had so many great ones. But chime in.

SPEAKER 3: Here, I'm, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna respond to a couple that have been thrown out there. I couldn't agree more with the Gold Borders and I just think it's stunning.

SPEAKER 3: I, I thrilled to throw that out there.

SPEAKER 3: And then a lot of people are in the chat room are bringing up 53 tops. I'm gonna say that's the second growing one. I, I for a long time, I was a little ambivalent on it.

SPEAKER 3: It seems to be growing on me more and more so I'm, I'm gonna put that as I'll make that my future prospect. How's that good?

SPEAKER 5: I love, I love the 53 tops. I think just the, the design, it's iconic, it has the star power that sometimes is important.

SPEAKER 5: I like the 48 leaf. I'm biased, I'm a Jackie guy. So, maybe that has a little bit to do with it, but even even the set in general, right? Being in color at a time when you weren't getting that. I think that's cool. I think some of the mystique with, you know, what year it was produced 48 or 49 that whole debate, right?

SPEAKER 5: Keeps it talked about and so 48 leave 53 taps and, you know, overrated I don't know. I'm not, I know people love the wood borders on, on 61 62 taps those couple of years. Not, not my favorite. Doesn't mean that, you know, there's still great cards but not my, my favorite, sets. And, so there's my, my two cents or the two cents it's, worth, all right guys.

SPEAKER 5: We're kind of coming down the home stretch. Right. So, another question we get asked that I see Dylan's in the chat. Me and Dylan did a whole episode about how to store cards, especially vintage, right? Obviously, you look behind you allowed on display. Jason as well. I got some behind me.

SPEAKER 5: Obviously out where people can see him is, is the best answer, but obviously you can't put everything you own on display. So, you know, we we got everyone in this room is, is a vintage of the vintage variety for the cards you don't have out. How do you like to store them binders, shoe buyers, monster boxes.

SPEAKER 5: That sort of thing guys, I'm gonna.

SPEAKER 3: Jump in because I think it's going to be unpopular and I gotta run in a minute.

SPEAKER 3: But I'd love to I'd love to display cards. You can see I have a Globetrotter poster behind me that's a vintage Globe Trotter is pretty cool.

SPEAKER 3: But this is my recommendation talking about storing John is when you find yourself with the National 32 days, not 30 John. What do yourself a favor. Figure out if you have things tucked away in the drawer or you know, the cover and you're not gonna really be thinking about it or looking at it or enjoying it. Maybe it's time to move on from that help fund your journey to the National.

SPEAKER 3: You can buy a few extra cards or buy a grail that you're looking for. I don't know, maybe it's just with the way that my personal life has progressed along with my professional life, but I already have too many cards and I'm not complaining, but when it comes to my personal collection, that's why I'm not a set guy anymore, not just space John, but also like what's practical.

SPEAKER 3: Right. So it's more practical to have a nice little, you know, call it a graded box worth or a Zion case worth of, you know, top 2030 or 50 cards. And then if maybe a card or two doesn't make the cut, maybe I'm willing to trade that or, or off it towards a bigger or, or more interesting purchase for my collection and that's my take on storage.

SPEAKER 5: No, it's good. And listen, you're, you're right. Right. You don't have something out. Maybe you just don't feel that certain way or maybe it once did and maybe feelings have changed and it's a good way to maybe find something that will make the desktop or the, the play, behind you.

SPEAKER 5: It's a, it's a great point. I don't know if you were saying it because you were hoping some people sold some of that stuff, to you, LA, but I, I like, I like the way you work. There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER 3: Not self serving, although to be honest and I think it's really funny, of course, the point. But listen, do yourselves a favor, right? Like the nationals are coming and I know, listen, I just don't want to run out of time and I think maybe each of us should mention a tip as well, but like, bring that card or bring those few cards that are tucked away.

SPEAKER 3: You don't have to sell them. But I, I've always said this to people. Like, what if this Saturday you've been at the National for four days? You have no more money. You can't talk to your significant other about any more money.

SPEAKER 3: There's nothing left in the AM. You can't pay paypal credit cards max. And you're like, you know what? Wow. I really wish I had three or four cards with me because I'm only off 500 bucks for this card to really want and I got nothing left and I still need to eat on the way home.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, that you, you good, good points. Right. And, you know, it doesn't hurt to bring them right if you bring them back and you don't move them. What's the harm in that. All right guys. How, how about you guys? Like storing cards that we can't see.

SPEAKER 3: I'm definitely a Bible guy. I agree with Dylan.

SPEAKER 5: I, I have a lot in binders. I have a lot of inboxes. I have a lot of display and I've taken lens. I, I'm probably the only oldest guy in this panel. I started thinning out my collection about two years ago.

SPEAKER 5: If it's just sitting in a box and I don't enjoy it anymore, I'd sell five cards to buy the one that I want. Kind of streamline it a little bit. But I don't think there's any right or wrong way. I have binders, boxes and displays. Well, if you, if you can't look at it, why have it.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah. Well, you're not getting rid of any Red Sox cards unless they're duplicates. That's true, Jason.

SPEAKER 6: You know what, I'm, I'm just gonna pretty much agree with my comrades here. So, for me, I, I like to just put my best stuff out on the walls and on shelves. Right. Full display.

SPEAKER 6: I've got some binders and for the most part picking up on what Leighton said. Right. I, I still, I've got a lot more cards but they're just in boxes. Right. I never really look at them unless there's something I need to try to find. So, you know, it's, it's hard to get rid of a card, you know, you pull it out and you're like, oh, man.

SPEAKER 6: No, I don't want to sell this. But the truth is you go somewhere like the National, you're gonna see something you want more. Right? And if there's something that's gonna make my wall that's, I'd rather have that than something that's gonna sit in the box. So, I can't say I act on that often but I think the National is the one place where it really makes sense.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, it's tough. Right? You can only have so much stuff out and then you get something, it's almost like a, a top 10 or whatever, you know, depend how many cards you, want to put out. You got, you put that out in some has to get, put away.

SPEAKER 5: Sometimes it's a harder decision than you, you think it, then you, I think it is and, even around my desk, sometimes I run out of writing space just because there's too many, cards and I'm not talking just in piles.

SPEAKER 5: I'm talking about like easels and stands. Right. That's the fun, that's the fun of it. And, you know, there's no wrong way to display your cards necessarily but, you know, you want to protect them as well. So, whatever, how you, how you deem necessary.

SPEAKER 5: Dylan Dylan, we'll tell you all about that. That guy's got protecting your cards down to, a science and, you know, from, you know, shading your windows and humidity and, and all that museum. Great blast, that sort of thing. So, we're, we're kind of up against it while we got 40 seconds. Guys. First off, thank you for, for joining me today.

SPEAKER 5: I had a blast. Thank you. Everybody in the chat room. Very active comments. I tried to, you know, play off them as much as possible. Just before we go, again, signatures for soldiers, the Charity of Choice for bench player, media and hobby paua, tax deductible and, goes to a good place. And again, guys, thank you.

SPEAKER 5: Thank you.

SPEAKER 3: Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER 5: Thanks, John. Take care, everybody, everybody.

SPEAKER 1: All right, guys. That's gonna wrap up this week's episode which, if you're listening and you're in Chicago obviously is taking place, during the National, this was recorded, obviously, last month. Wanna thank Mar Hoyle Jason Schwartz, Danny Black Leighton Sheldon, all for joining me on this Hobby Pelusa episode.

SPEAKER 1: If you're at the National, and you see me, come say hello, shake your hand. We'll talk some hobby, enjoy meeting people and enjoy the National if you're at it right now. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you soon.

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