Ep.239 w/ Andy Broome of CCG "The Grading space is changing"

SPEAKER 1: Here's a gentleman who's a fierce advocate and ambassador for this great hobby.

SPEAKER 1: He has his finger on the pulse of the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: However, his voice is nowhere as smooth as mine buddy don't try.

SPEAKER 1: Here is John Newman.

SPEAKER 2: What is up everybody? Episode 2 39 of sports coordination. Hope everybody had a happy and safe July 4th. We have a great guest today from now CCGG Grading.

SPEAKER 2: Mr Andy Broom, the vice president, there and, loads of experience in the grading space, was at Beckett, for many years as their head grader. And so we're gonna talk about grading for sure. We're gonna talk about the hobby, the National, some of what he collects.

SPEAKER 2: He's a collector, as well. And, you know, collect some different and unique, stuff and, great guy and, very interesting guy. Happy to finally have him on. And we're gonna, we're gonna talk some hobby today with Andy. So without further ado, let's get the show started.

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SPEAKER 2: All right, real happy to be joined on the sports car chap guest line by the vice president of CGC Mr Andy Broom. Welcome. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER 7: Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER 2: Well, thanks, thanks for, I know you're a busy guy. Thanks for making some time. And, you got some, great announcements with your company. We kind of save those, for the big finale, so to speak. And like I, like I said, you off the air, you know, when, you know, tagline the shows, hobbies with people.

SPEAKER 2: I, I have people on the show not companies, they may represent companies but, but by all means they're, you know, they're, they're individual, in their own. Right? I, I guess my first question, you know, from, is it easier to write a book or grade a card?

SPEAKER 7: Oh, man.

SPEAKER 7: That's a tough one. I'D still say probably grading a card. That's easier. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: And, and I know you wrote a book, collecting, for collectors if I'm not mistaken. Is that, is that right?

SPEAKER 7: I have a cartoon book, collecting the collector. And then also I have a novella that's based on the story of Jackie Mitchell. She was the 18 year old woman who struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. So, it is easier to grade a car than, than, than to, to do those things most of the time.

SPEAKER 2: And that's, and that's very cool. I think everyone always has, like, everyone thinks they have a little author in them or, or writer in them. But, you know, it's not as easy as, as people think so, kudos there.

SPEAKER 7: But I just say, look, I think everybody has at least one book in them. Everybody has a story to tell and, and, and look, I, I'm no author but I, I'm determined, I'm determined in what I do.

SPEAKER 7: And so, you know, it, it, the books, my books are a great example, that was many hours at night, you know, working on them. So to that, I would say anybody, you know, everybody has a story. So if you feel like you have a story to tell, just, just put the effort in and, and, and do it, hammer it out.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, great advice and little, little inspiration to, you know, get in the game rather than then watch it right then.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I, I'll start off with this, you, you were at Beckett for, for quite a bit before making the move over. How tough, how tough of a decision is that when you're with one company for a while and, and, and kind of, you know, worked their way up and then to, to go to a, another, another company, you know, can you talk about the, the, the maybe the di or maybe they're not difficulty and it.

SPEAKER 7: Just, yeah, you know, any time, you know, and you're in that type of position, You, you know, it's, there's risk. You know, it is a big move. I was, I was a senior vintage grader there for 16/16 years.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, I, I'm, I'm a passionate collector. I've been, I've been collecting since, you know, full time collecting since 1987.

SPEAKER 7: You know, I'm one of those rare ones. My mom didn't ever have the chance to throw out my baseball cards, I never stopped collecting.

SPEAKER 7: So, you know, I always look at everything from the, the perspective of a collector because that's what I am and, you know, would I be happy with the product I'm putting out and things of that nature. And so, you know, the move for me was, I wanted to do more. I wanted to, I wanted to be able to, take card grading to the next level and be able to offer more and do more.

SPEAKER 7: And, and that's what this opportunity was, is it was the chance to, to really start something from the ground up. The, the way that, you know, my vision, the way that I, I wanted to do things.

SPEAKER 7: And so, you know, it, it, it was a risk but it, it was, it was in my mind, there was never a time where, where I wavered, it was the right decision, you know, to go out and, and, and, and really do what I thought needed to be done and, and in a way where, you know, I have more, you know, more backing, more, more, ability to do to do more.

SPEAKER 2: I appreciate you, you sharing some of that, you know, insight with that. Like you said, you are a collector, right? And I think, you know, when you see companies, right? I think, you know, I get asked that all the time. Andy, like, would you see, rather see a company?

SPEAKER 2: It doesn't matter what company it doesn't have to be, you know, run by someone who's in the hobby or knows the hobby and, and, you know, has their finger on that pulse, so to speak. And, you know, I, I, I'D say, listen, if you ask me.

SPEAKER 2: Right. Everyone has an opinion. That's all they are. But my opinion is, is such and I think that that only helps. Right. I think the risk is when you don't, and I'm not saying it can't be done. I just think the degree of difficulty, is, is, is higher, when you don't know, kind of the landscape, you're in it. It's like somebody, it's, it's like AAA tour guide, right? Who's done the tour?

SPEAKER 2: You know, how many times over it's, you know, it like, and then someone says, hey, we'll show you at one time and then you're, you're on your own, right? Which one would rather take you, on that tour? Maybe not the greatest analogy. I just happen to, to use it. But I, I think, you know, having someone familiar with the tour, especially nowadays in the hobby changes.

SPEAKER 2: So, so quickly from, you know, used to be, you're in the hobby a long time. I mean, it used to be, you know, the new we get in a week used to be a year was worth, back when. Right. So, it, it's so quick. I, I think you have to sort of be involved. I mean, that's just my take on it. Would you, would you agree with that assessment?

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, 100%. You know, and, and not just in cards and, and in car grading in particular, but, you know, you nailed it, it's, it's any, any walk of life. Right. Is that passion is gonna show through to the final product? And yes, we're a business and yes, we're here to make money.

SPEAKER 7: That's what all businesses do. But the difference is we're staffed with very passionate people from the ground up. You know, I, I was talking to somebody earlier today, you know, the chairman of our company of Certified Collectibles Group, he was, he would be in there for hours each day grading coins in the coin room.

SPEAKER 7: Now, he's a renowned coin expert and he certainly doesn't have to go. And, you know, we're not relying on him to grade coins, but that's his passion and that's his expertise. And so that, that really shines all the way down to the lowest level from the ground up.

SPEAKER 7: Is, is that passion? You know, I, my graders, you know, on the sports side is, you know, I, if, you know, things happen and, and, you know, if a mistake is made, they take it personal, you know, and, and that, that, that shows to me that passion, they want it, right?

SPEAKER 7: They want to know, you know, my, what I always preach to them is you know, when you open up that box of cards that you submitted and you're seeing them for the first time, you know, that experience, you know what you expect you, you expect everything to be correct and look right and, and be right.

SPEAKER 7: And so, so that, that's that mantra is, is, you know, how would you feel getting this back into your own collection? And, and, and I, and I, I like to feel that that does reflect in, in our final product and what we put out there.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. And, and, you know, as someone that, that does that and, and it's, you know, even though a lot of times I already know my grades ahead of time, right. It's still fun to see them in person and many people don't like to know and, and, and keep that element of, of surprise, you know, when you mentioned grading there, there's a lot about the grading space that people don't know about.

SPEAKER 2: And sometimes people will turn on a microphone and talk like they do, you know what I want, you know, II I know some of the answers for every company. It's different too. It's not a one, one size fits all for someone that's looking to become a, a greater for CGC.

SPEAKER 2: Well, obviously that's the space, you know, and, and you're involved in, what's that process look like for a potential future grader? And how would they, how would they approach, you know, making that, that's their dream, making that dream, a reality.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah. No, that's a great question. And, and that's something, you know, we're, we're, we're, as we continue to grow, we're still looking for, for graders, especially graders with experience already.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, the, the number one requirement, aside from having, you know, you, you need to have a good base knowledge of cards, right? You need to be able to identify the cards and, and at least have some, some personal experience grading.

SPEAKER 7: Maybe you've been submitting cards on your own or, or buying and selling all those things are really add to your card, you know, card grading education, and, and, you know, have that passion, you know, this, this isn't just a job, you know, we look at it, this is a career and, and this is something where if you're passionate about cards, you wake up in the morning with a smile on your face knowing what you're gonna do during the day.

SPEAKER 7: And, you know, for us, you know, we, we we have a actual classroom. Doctor Webb is our, our who leads our education department. And so, you know, we're, we're really geared to, to the education of card grading and that's not just to maintain your grading line, which it does and continue in education. But, you know, for those who are very passionate, who have, you know, good card knowledge.

SPEAKER 7: You, you've been in cards, you know, for personal collecting or, or even as a dealer, you know, those are the types of individuals that can come in and, and really embrace the education, and, and learn how to grade and we can teach how to grade. But you know, anybody that, you know, if cards, your life and, you know who you are, you know, you, you've, the cards are, are everything.

SPEAKER 7: You know, it, it's something that's great to get into. It's not for everybody, even people who, who love cards. I mean, you have to think you're spending eight plus hours a day, you know, looking at other people's cards and as exciting as that sounds and is, it's, it can be very monotonous, you know, it can be, it can be tedious because you've got to be focused, you've got to stay on your game.

SPEAKER 7: You know, we've got to, you've got to maintain the grading line. And so, you know, I've been grading now professionally, just over 24 years.

SPEAKER 7: And so I've seen a lot of graders, come and go and, and, and seen a lot of training and, you know, that's, that's the one thing is if, if you're AAA lover of cards and, and, and you think this is, this is it, this is your passion then that's a go for it, you know, contact us and, and it's something we can look at. But, but, yeah, it's not for everybody. It can be tough, especially when you're on the road grading.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, you had no doubt. And, you know, you didn't sugarcoat it. Right. You, you, you said how it kind of really is. But, you know, if you have a passion for or anything, you know, where in this case we're talking about card grading but whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER 2: Unless you, unless you go for it, you'll, you'll never know the answer, to the question, you know, we've heard a lot lately in the last year or two, especially with A I and grading. There are companies that are, are saying that, you know, they use it. I'm old school Andy, I'm a, I'm an old guy, you know, I might be the old man on the porch here.

SPEAKER 2: I think there's something to be said about the human element. You know, we, we even in major league baseball, they're talking about replacing the home play umpire with, you know, a robotics and, and computer system to call balls and strikes at least, I, I still like the human element, to that, I think a cann or a computer or whatever instrument that would ever, you know, replace a person.

SPEAKER 2: I, I just don't, I just don't think it can be the same as, as picking up a card and, and turning it different ways and looking at all the things you really need to look at. I'm sure people would a, would debate that with me or, or argue that point.

SPEAKER 2: But I'm, I'm, I'm pretty old school and, and think can ii, I feel like it can be used but I don't want it to be exclusive where there's not that human element at all anymore. And, you know, I, I wanna get you kind of your thoughts on that. And you know, where do you see that technology kinda eventually falling into place if, if so, if it happens.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah. No, you know, I, it, it's, you know, that's something that we do use and I agree 100% with you.

SPEAKER 7: I don't believe that, you know, the technology is there for full, full A I grading without the human element for a couple of reasons. But the biggest reason is it, it takes a high level expertise of card grading to train that model.

SPEAKER 7: And, and, you know, you know, some of the, some of the A I that we see is, is, is just out there and developed. It's not really, you know, who, who, who's giving that, that grading information, who, what expertise.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, real A I, the thing with that, like what we use is A I assistance. So, you know, from day one, we've used A I system for attribution, which is identification of the cards, which is on the verification side when they come in, it's verified what the card is, versus what the customer says on their form versus our database.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, on the grading side, we have grading, A I assistants and what that does is, you know, we want to give graders a dashboard of all the information that they need to make more informed decisions, you know, and be more efficient as well.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, it's not replacing the grader, it's assisting the grader. So my expert looking at a card, maybe he or she looks at it and says, you know, I think this is a seven corner.

SPEAKER 7: The A I assistant says, oh, I think this is a 75 corner but then the grader can look and, and see that and go. No, no, I'm sticking with it is a seven. So I, I, you know, put it in a seven. The A I engine says, ok, this expert says it's a seven, I'll go with that. And so that's, that's the real app A I. Right. That's, that's what's being used now.

SPEAKER 7: That's what we use, you know, will it ever replace a, a human grader? 100%? I, I am sure eventually it will, but we're not there yet. There's, there's so many variables involved and it's much deeper and much more than taking an image of a card and, and feeding it into you know, a computer. There, there's a lot more elements to that.

SPEAKER 7: One example is, you know, that's the surface of a card, you know, that's not something that a I can, can read based on a scan. That's, that's almost like you have to look at the surface of a card, like a topographical map. It's almost got to be a 3d rendering.

SPEAKER 7: So a whole different process. So, you know, a IA I is you know, it can be quite complicated, but it's a, it's a wonderful tool that we can use now to assist our experts rather than just trying to replace them with the model that, you know, outside from here.

SPEAKER 7: You know, if you have another A I model, who knows who's training it, who, whose expertise is this based on what's the experience of the graders in, in the model, you know, and those are things that have to be considered. So, you know, A I is one of those buzz words.

SPEAKER 7: It's, it's, it's, everyone wants to hear it because it sounds cool and, you know, this company is using a and, you know, whatever but you know, like I said, we, we've been using it for day one in the side. And, and, you know, it's it's a great tool.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, and I, and I like how it's used, like you said, in, in combination with, the human element. Right. And so, I, I just, you know, again, maybe I'm old school to a, to a fault but I like the combination of both and II, I know it's being used a lot like that.

SPEAKER 2: That's, to me that's, that's, you know, I, I like that. It makes, it makes the greatest job a little easier and convenient too, right? Anything that maybe takes a little pressure off them, right?

SPEAKER 2: You can't, you really can't argue, with that, you know, one of the, one of when I hear people really kind of proponents of like 100% A I, they, the thing they always like, point to is like, well, grading is subjective which it, which it is obviously, you know, what if the grader had a fight with his wife, or, or, you know, or husband, in the morning and came to work and kind of in a grumpy or bad mood.

SPEAKER 2: And then, you know, they always say, you know, don't bring your home, to work or your work life home, right? But I guess it could happen.

SPEAKER 2: But, you know, I always say, well, you know, that's more on the person like you got to separate the two when you hear, I'm sure you've heard that scenario kind of, what's your take on, on those kind of when you hear that, what's your thoughts?

SPEAKER 7: Well, look anything that a human is involved in, there's a, it's always gonna be subjective to a point and, and, you know, part of being an expert in a field is, is not only your experience but training as well and ongoing training. So, to maintain that, that expertise, maintain that line, I, I, if you will, grading is so different and yes, there's a human element there.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, that's, that's why there's checks and balances, right? That, that's why, it's not just a grader sitting in a room, you know, grading cards, it's, it's an entire operation. And so there's checks and balances throughout the, the, the entire system.

SPEAKER 7: Because, you know, we, you, we have to have some safeguards in place for that because, you know, as you said, somebody may have a bad day but that can't be reflected in, in our, in our product.

SPEAKER 7: And so, you know, we, we, along with our continual education, you know, we, we, make sure that our graders have what they need and, and are, and you're comfortable and, and, and all of that, but at the end of the day, you know, things happen in life. And so we have to, as a, as an organization have some checks and balances to ensure that the customer is getting a consistent product.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. Like you said that, you know, I'm glad to hear you say that there's, there's a team involved and, and so it's like you said, it's not always just one person that might have a, a bad day that just takes it out on a card or a person's, card. You know, we like, that's kind of the scenario always in our mind, but it doesn't always mean it's, it, it's, exactly how it goes and so good to hear you, say that it's.

SPEAKER 3: Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

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SPEAKER 3: Sports Card Nation has returned.

SPEAKER 2: Getting back to a little, your, your personal collecting. I know you're a vintage guy. I'm a vintage guy as well. I know you do a lot of, Japanese vintage, baseball non-sporting, kind of speak to that, like how, how you got into that, aspect of the hobby.

SPEAKER 2: And, and what you like to collect.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah. You know, I guess I'm, I'm a little weird because, by the time I was 13 I was all in on T 206. That was, that was my thing.

SPEAKER 7: So I was, you know, the thirteen-year-old kid going around to, to card shows in the late eighties and, and only buying vintage, pre-war, especially, I'm gonna.

SPEAKER 2: I'm gonna, I'm not, I don't mean to cut you off and I don't know if you're weird. I think you were just the head of the, I think you were the smart guy in, in that room apparently so.

SPEAKER 7: But, but, but yeah, it fascinated me, it fascinated me that here is these cards at the time were almost 100 years old and, who are these players? Right? And, and, and they, and, you know, as you dive into it, they each have their own story and the cards themselves have their own stories.

SPEAKER 7: And, you know, I'm, I'm dating myself here but, you know, I'm old enough to, to, to have talked to people who actually remember when these cards came out and, and, you know, one of the stories from my hometown, I was always, you know, that, that these were kids would find the 206 cards, the cigarette cards on the streets downtown, you know, from the tobacco shops, the men would throw them out and stuff.

SPEAKER 7: And so that was just fascinating to me as a, as a young, you know, teenager. And, and so I just, I just fell in love with it. And so, you know, over the years, pre-war baseball is, is my primary thing, but I began to branch out. I, I really enjoy 19th century baseball. That's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER 7: You, you know, you, you, you collect everything and eventually you, you have to look at other areas to go into. And then, so I got into Japanese vintage Japanese baseball, which is, which is still fascinating to me.

SPEAKER 7: One player in particular that, that is my PC is Victor star and who was the Russian pitcher in Japanese baseball pre-war and then occupational period.

SPEAKER 7: And that story just fascinates me and that's, that's a movie in and of itself, you know, but but, you know, looking at collecting cards from a different culture in a different country that from a different time, it's fascinating how, how cards were collected and, and, and even purchased, you know, Japan Post World War Two versus the US.

SPEAKER 7: And, and so it's just fascinating that there's all these different elements and, you know, as we know, collecting cards, especially vintage, there's, there's so much culture involved as well. It's so much deeper than the cards themselves. And so I just, yeah, everything vintage is just always fascinated me.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. I'm a vintage guy. So you don't have to sell me. Ii I, I'm hook line at Seeker Sinker and, and, you know, even the non sports stuff, even on the vintage side has seen a little bit of a trajectory as more people kind of discover it, find out.

SPEAKER 2: And it's something I've done. I've, you know, I'm a big Billy Joel guy. So I, I made an effort to get the first time Billy Joe appeared on, on a, a, you know, a card. It's in this case happens to be a Panini sticker, but the first time on, on what would be considered a collectible.

SPEAKER 2: And, and we're seeing a lot of people kind of go back and find their favorite actress, actor, comedian and their first appearance on a, on a collectible type of thing. Have you even noticed that, like, in, in the grading space you're seeing a lot more of that kind of stuff than ever before being submitted for it to be encapsulated and graded.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's, you know, I again, vintage but I love non-sporting vintage as well. And there's so many cool cards that, you know, I, I it's almost like, you know, I'll give you a great example, the, the cigarette card, British cigarette card with, Walt Disney and with Mickey Mouse on his, on his knee. Ii, I would see that card.

SPEAKER 7: I would always buy it. It was always, you know, as a 10 $15 card and, love that stuff. And now, of course, that's a, that's a big card. And so we've seen a lot of that, of stuff that people are now really starting to catch on to, but there's so much great stuff in non sport. One of my collections in non sport vintage on sport is George Washington cards.

SPEAKER 7: And obviously he wasn't around, you know, they weren't during his career. But, you know, there's, there's 19th century and early 20th century, some cool cards that just featured George Washington and I actually collect a lot of non-sporting that way, you know, theme collecting.

SPEAKER 7: And it, it's, again, it's, it's even more fascinating than, than vintage sports because of these stories. I, I'll throw one out there, you know, where, where else can you collect a Claude Monet rookie card. Right. But he has a 19 01 French, chocolate card.

SPEAKER 7: Actually has two variations. But I mean, that, that was during his lifetime, you know, and that's really cool. One of the most famous impressionist painters has a card, you know, there, there's so much of that.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. And some of this stuff, people don't even know a lot about it. Like we're still discovering, stuff. I have two boxing cards. I don't have them right near me or I'D, I'D put them on the screen but I believe they're from Czechoslovakia.

SPEAKER 2: But I think they came out of, chocolate products. It's a, a Joe Lewis and a, a Rocky Marciano card. Very thin stock. But anyone I've ever showed it to, that's been in, in, in the hobby space. Even a boxing, guy that I know had no idea anything about it.

SPEAKER 2: So, there's a lot of that stuff still in it, believe it or not, even with all the technology and, and knowledge there, there's stuff that people still are not very aware of and especially on the non-sporting side, there's, people are, people are like, hey, this is the first card of this particular subject and someone else will say no, a couple of years earlier, this was made and they're like, they're probably disappointed because they thought they had the first one.

SPEAKER 2: But there's still a lot of that here, you know, all these years later, still going on. I think that's, that's kind of what makes it, the, even as fun as it is is that we're still learning. I mean, you know, you think you'd think the cat would be out of the bag, but we're, we're still discovering and, and finding out about where these products came from how short they are.

SPEAKER 2: And a lot of the times, like you said, you, you were, you were talking about the story with the, those, tobacco car just kinda, you know, the, the person bought this, the pack of cigarettes for the cigarettes.

SPEAKER 2: They're like, hey, I don't want this and it's on the street. Right. Right. That was sort of the reality then. So a lot of this stuff didn't really, you know, didn't get saved. And, you know, and so there's a lot less of it potentially and unless knowledge about it would, I mean, what do you think about kind of that take? Oh, a 100%.

SPEAKER 7: That's, that's one of my loves is the research and, and, and new discoveries and, and even research on, on known cards. One of my favorite sets. I love, I love candy cards, the ecards.

SPEAKER 7: And what's so cool is you, you, you take your average E card versus your average tea card like a Tito 06. And, you know, it's very hard to find ecards in, in decent condition or even halfway decent condition.

SPEAKER 7: Well, if you look at it, it was men, you know, grown men who bought the cigarettes at, back at the, at that time. But it was the kids buying the candy. So, you know, these, the, the candy cards are always mangled and that was a product of the, their environment. But, you know, I love the research and, and, and talking about ecards. One of my favorite sets is the 90-1 American Caramel set.

SPEAKER 7: And, you know, for decades is 100 and 20 cards is the checklist.

SPEAKER 7: But you know, background was it 2011 or 12 or whatever?

SPEAKER 7: I was, I was instrumental in cataloging the 121 121st card, which is the Dots Miller with Sunset they had with and without Sunset.

SPEAKER 7: And you know, this, this is 100 plus years after this set was, was not only issued, but it's a good 75 years after it was cataloged. And you know, this, we, we had the checklist and so that type of stuff adding something new to the checklist. That's 100 years old. That's awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER 7: I know that another example, the E 104 Naja Caramels, you know, the Fred Tenny card up until 2018, that card didn't exist and it's just a common but that, you know, we don't know this whole checklist of this set and now since 2018, there's three of the same card known all came from Saint Louis area, which is where the, the company that produced Naja caramels is from.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, I mean, they're still, they're still, it's still out there and, and that's one question I get a but is, do you think there's still original collections out there? Do you think there's Wagner still out there? Absolutely. There, there are, not as many as there used to be, but, you know, I've, I've been involved with multiple original pre-war collections to come to market and, and including a Wagner.

SPEAKER 7: And so they're there, they're out there to this day, there's still stuff to be found that people have, you know, families have just forgotten about or didn't even know they had. But, you know, all it takes is you clean out in a basement or an attic and, and now there's a new to the market card that no one knew about.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. And it's fun and, and now everyone's running into their, their crawlspace as we speak, to see what might might be up there. Right. And it's, it's always fun. Right.

SPEAKER 2: When you, you know, you move into a new house, you buy a new house and you, you know, you, you check those areas out, you, you've heard people find something, maybe, you know, there, there's a piece of the wall missing or a brick missing, they find something behind it. And it's, it's, it's always fun, to hear this, those kind of stories. Right.

SPEAKER 2: And absolutely, you know, we got the nationals coming up. I know you'll, you'll obviously be there, you know, how much time you get where you can kind of walk the floor and maybe do a little shopping and, and find some of those vintage cards on, on your, your target list.

SPEAKER 7: I am laughing because, this conversation came up. I think it was on the other day. But, it, it kind of started up and, that was, that was what, I look forward to retirements to go to the National and actually get the shot for myself.

SPEAKER 7: But yeah, this will be my, see, this will be my 25th National.

SPEAKER 7: And, two of those were, yeah, two of those were before I started grading professionally. So those two I got to go, you know, on my own and, and have fun. But, no, it's, it's, it's work and it's a lot of hard work. But, you know, I try to make a few minutes here and there and, fortunately, I know some great dealers in the industry and they know what I like. And so, sometimes it, they end up bringing stuff to me to look.

SPEAKER 2: At, hey, listen, nothing wrong with that, right. You can order a pizza and have it delivered. Why can't you have cards that I don't thing wrong with that. Like you said, you, you're, you're working hard, right? Little perks, perks are putting in the hard work and, and it's nice that people look out for you.

SPEAKER 2: Right. I think, I think everyone has a story along those, those lines and, you know, we got that, coming, when this airs will be literally about 20 days, away from the National. You, you know, you recently announced as a company, some, some breaking some new policies and, and new exciting things.

SPEAKER 2: I'll have you sort of do the honor, you know, and, and share what some of those that announcement that you, you've already made and, and many people may know, but for those that may not have heard, go ahead and share that.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, absolutely. So on, on June 20th, we announced the we, we have merged CGC Trading Cards and CS G sports cards into one entity. So we're CGC cards that allows us to be able to, to grade trading cards, non sports and sports altogether.

SPEAKER 7: What that means for customers is that it's a streamlined process to submit. You put everything in one box, do one online submission form and everything gets graded and, you know, that's the high level of it. That's, that's the, the, you know, bringing the two together under one name, but there's a lot more to that as well.

SPEAKER 7: You know, one of the other things that we have now is, we've removed the requirement for membership so anybody can submit cards. Now, we still have our membership and we actually are growing that program.

SPEAKER 7: You know, you get, you get the money back in grading credits and you actually get a reduced fee, grading fee as opposed to just the non-member, fee. But, you know, the whole point of this is to make this as streamlined as we can for, for our customers.

SPEAKER 7: You know, it's a and we, and we get that, you know, we, we, we, we, we spent over a year now with focus groups doing surveys talking with dealers that, that work with us and, and also just everyday collectors as well. And, you know, we, we wanted, we wanted their feedback. What are the hurdles that you, you have you encounter when trying to submit with us? How can we make our service better?

SPEAKER 7: And you know, the, the numbers show it. I mean, we're already the number two, largest grade a card grading service in the in the world. You know, Certified Collectibles Group is the largest collectables grading company in the world. We've graded combined 75 million collectables since 1987.

SPEAKER 7: So, but I, I say all that because, you know, we, we have a, a rich history and, and we're very passionate about collecting and So we want to continue to serve collectors and make sure that we're, we're, we're doing the things that they want and, and making it easy for them.

SPEAKER 7: So that, that's, that's the reason for this merger is to streamline everything and, you know, more announcements will be coming out soon. We actually will go live July 12th, when we'll start shipping, cards with the new, the new label.

SPEAKER 7: And then of course, we'll be at the National. As always, we'll be grading on site.

SPEAKER 7: We're gonna have some crazy things there. Of course, number one, I'm gonna have lots of sample cards to hand out. So people that haven't seen our holder before and know how clear our, our holder is, they have a chance to take one home. Ii, I don't.

SPEAKER 2: Like cutting you off, but I, I got, I, I wanna ask you like, what's the secret to that? It is crystal clear. I'm not gonna lie. Like that thing is like, I mean, why don't, you know, it's the clearest holder. I, I'll say it in the industry. How is that? That you're the only one?

SPEAKER 2: I mean, I'll, I'll say it like, why are we not seeing more of that? What? I, I don't want you to give away trade secrets or anything, you know, or Colonel Sanders recipe here. But like, how is that the case? I mean, as much as you could say?

SPEAKER 7: No. Absolutely. I, I'D love to talk about it. No, you know, this goes back to the very first conversation you and I had here is, you know, why, why did I make the move to to, to go to CS G and Certified Collectibles Group? That, that's another aspect of it, you know, to be able to come in and say I want this, this is a holder.

SPEAKER 7: I want obviously security is number one. So these are the parameters I want the most secure holder, but I also want it crystal clear and, you know, I, I have to give credit where credit's due. I can't take all the credit for this.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, again, Certified Collectibles Group has been going since 1987 NGC grade coin grading, you know, they've gone through different series of holders and different types of holders. And so I was very fortunate to be able to lean on that expertise of, of, you know, designing these holders. And so that, that I had a lot of of resources at my disposal.

SPEAKER 7: And so, but yeah, that was our goal. That wasn't by accident that the holder is that way it, it was by design. How can we make the best holder? Because that's real, that's what it's about, that's part of the customer experience to feel that, that feel the, the weight of it, the clarity of it.

SPEAKER 7: And it's no different than the label when you buy a card, you're buying the card, you don't want the label to take away from the card. You don't want the holder to take away from the card. You just want the best image of the, of the card. You want a label that's neutral, gives the catalog information, gives the grade, but that's it.

SPEAKER 7: And so that's, that's another driving factor of this merger is a very neutral label that doesn't take away from the card. And then of course, you know, while some things have changed, we're definitely not changing our holder and, and as we introduce new more sizes of holders, they'll, they'll, they'll be the holder that everyone knows it'd be the same type of plastic.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. And I like that, she said, you know, the focus is definitely the card, right? That's, that's the focal point. But the aesthetics around the card, we, you can't throw that out too.

SPEAKER 2: That's, that's important and the holder, like you said, itself and, you know, I think there is a lot that goes into that and, and you know, how much goes, how much do I, I know the answer to this.

SPEAKER 2: But for those that don't know when you, you know, when you do change a flip or the holder or, or the format, you know, it, it's got to be a difficult decision because, you know, that people that already kind of invested in the company and have a lot of their collection or their cards in what now becomes the old holder?

SPEAKER 2: Wasn't the old holder, but it is now, you know, how much of a factor is that in when you've desi, when you do a, a redesign or a new design?

SPEAKER 7: Oh, it's one of the top, for sure. I mean, that's, you know, that's protecting that legacy is, is paramount for us. And, you know, the, the analogy I gave earlier today when we were talking here in the office was that, you know, II I want to think of, of our grading service like the US meant.

SPEAKER 7: And what I mean by that is, you know, the government, our US government has never de valued any currency that they in coins they put out. So, you know, 18 04 silver dollar, it's still worth $1. Of course, you'd be a fool to go cash that in, but it's, it's still worth that dollar.

SPEAKER 7: And so that's the same approach that we have here. You know, every card we've ever graded is still in image of front and back or, or on the website. And the cert verification, the pop report continues to support those to set registry and our guarantee supports them, which is the best guarantee in the industry.

SPEAKER 7: As far as, you know, the, the card grading and the card itself. And so we're protecting that legacy.

SPEAKER 7: You know, they, the cards that are in our, our whole, our labels from before, they, they still have the same value because we still stand behind them 100%. And I think that's, that's really, really important because, you know, you can make changes and, and think about the future only and, and, and that's, that's, that's ok.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, to your point, you know, we have a, we have a heritage, we have a, a legacy granted that, you know, we haven't been grading cards as long as some, some companies as far as, you know, for card specific, specific.

SPEAKER 7: But there's still a legacy there, there's still millions of cards and holders with our label. And so it is important and that's why we really focused on making sure that those cards, those previous labels are still supported 100% just like if you send a card in today.

SPEAKER 2: And one thing I'll say in, in all grading companies, defense as well, you know, we, it, it's, you know, it's not something we like to talk about, but it's a fact of the hobby, right? You've got, some people who, you know, who lack morals who are making, counterfeit cards, counterfeit slabs, right?

SPEAKER 2: And it's, it's up to you guys to, to lead the charge to, to stay ahead of those folks, as best you can. And so sometimes it may be as simple as that, that, we have better technology we need to make us labs that are harder to, to forge and, and counterfeit so that, that no one gets burnt or, or taken advantage of.

SPEAKER 2: So it, it, sometimes it's as simple as that, right? Rather than even marketing itself, it's just to, to protect the, the consumers out there as well.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, 100%. And that, you know, security is, is number one when we're designing a, whether it's a label or a holder or even processes of, of, you know, of cards going through the grading system.

SPEAKER 7: That's, that's number one.

SPEAKER 7: And you know, that's, that's what the label is. That's where we start. These are the security features that we have to have, take those and let's design a label, you know, around that the holder the same way.

SPEAKER 7: And that's, that's one reason why from day one, the very first card we've ever graded to today, every card is imaged front and back and those images are on the, the website under the cert verification for that card. And why is that important?

SPEAKER 7: Well, you know, it's nice to have an image of the card, of course, but really it's a security factor as well because you can go, anybody can go and scan the QR code or just type in the, the, the cert number to the website and you're gonna see what that card looked like before it left our facility.

SPEAKER 7: So, you know that this match is not only does the information match up with the certification there, but, but it's the image. And so that's just one of many security features and, and, and, you know, if you're gonna have a product that you have a guarantee you're gonna stand behind, you need to have the best, most secure product.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. And, and really important, especially on the vintage side of the hobby where we've seen, listen, no one likes to talk about it necessarily. But unfortunately it's, it's part of the terrain, right where, where people are rolling cards out, trimming them.

SPEAKER 2: And that photograph can kind of illustrate maybe the differences and kind of catch that or at least document it.

SPEAKER 2: So people who do that, you know, can the consequences can, be faced or, or even better, you know, someone doesn't get burnt or, or taken advantage of.

SPEAKER 2: And I think, you know, I know you feel that way and that, that, you know, protecting the hobby and the consumers is, is right at the forefront of, of, of what you do and, you know, there's no shortage of, of grading companies. They're, they're in the hundreds now. I, I couldn't name them all if, if I, if I tried or wanted to.

SPEAKER 2: So it's, it's, I think it's important to when you hear that those, that, that care about more than just, you know, filling the, the bank accounts up. Right. Which, like you said it's a business and that's part of it. But if that's the only part of it that's, that's, that's, not, not necessarily a good thing.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: Well, Andy, I appreciate you making some time. I know you're busy with, with, you know, with the new announcement and, and, and you got your, your plate full and, like you said, you, you hopefully you get a little time to, enjoy the National when you're there. I look forward to, to meeting you in person here.

SPEAKER 2: And you know, in a few weeks and you know, I always let the guest give out any of the Social Media website where people can find CDC your, your own, you know, if you want to share your own handles or whatever, take your time, the, the floor is your, well.

SPEAKER 7: I appreciate it.

SPEAKER 7: Well, you know, CGC cards dot com, CGC cards on, on Social Media platforms.

SPEAKER 7: I'm not super active on Social Media other than Twitter. My handle is card greater.

SPEAKER 7: You know, I answer questions there as well.

SPEAKER 7: And yeah, we'll be at the National, please. If you're going stop, stop by. If you don't have a question or you know, or anything like that, you just want a free sample card to see what the holder label are all about. Please come by, get one.

SPEAKER 7: I will say that when I say our, our booth is gonna be a carnival. I literally mean that we're going, it's, there's going to be a midway and it all kind of crazy stuff. So, definitely stop by, John II. I look forward to meeting you in person as well and, I really appreciate you having me on. I, I hope you have me on again.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Nope. Nope. I hope it, we're not doing a one hit wonder here. I don't, I, I don't, I don't like to do that. So you, you, we'll have you back as long as you, you want to come back. Well, Andy, again, again, I know you, your, your plate's full and I appreciate you making some time. We'll see you. We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER 7: Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER 2: All right. Pretty cool having Andy on, I've seen him, a few times at the National, at the show and, I always seem to be running around, with a man on a mission. So I never got to, you know, talk to him in person. We'll, we'll change that, here in Chicago in a few weeks. So, appreciate his time and, sharing some of the insight behind the scenes, you know, what goes on at the grading company and how some of that works for.

SPEAKER 10: More than 30 years. Robert Edward auctions has been the nation's premier auction house specializing in sports memorabilia and trading cards.

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SPEAKER 10: Re A has created the hobby's most trusted forum for selling high quality collectibles. Go to Robert Edward auctions dot com for more information on how to buy or sell in their next auction for nearly 50 years. Sports collectors Digest has been the voice of the hobby.

SPEAKER 10: Bringing you comprehensive coverage of the sports collectible industry from industry news, auction results, market analysis and in depth stories about collectors and their collections. Sports collectors digest has everything you need to know about the hobby.

SPEAKER 10: Also your leading source for listings of sports collectible dealers, card shops, card shows and the latest from the industry's top companies to check out all the latest news or to subscribe to the hobby's oldest magazine. Visit sports collectors digest dot com or call 1 808 29 55 61.

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