Ep.235 w/ Mike Sommer of WaxPackHero

SPEAKER 1: Here's a gentleman who's a fierce advocate and ambassador for this great hobby.

SPEAKER 1: He has his finger on the pulse of the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: However, his voice is nowhere as smooth as mine buddy don't try.

SPEAKER 1: Here is John Newman.

SPEAKER 2: What is up? Welcome to episode 2 35.

SPEAKER 2: Sports coordination. Always good to be back on the airwaves. Hopefully. Thank you as always for listening. We, we really appreciate that without you.

SPEAKER 2: There is no us. All right, great guest today. Not his first time on the show, not his second time on the show, not his third time on the show. I think it's either his fourth or fifth and it doesn't matter because he's that kind of guest, Mr Mike.

SPEAKER 2: So from Wax Pack Hero, we're going to cover a lot of hobby ground, right? Of Gomery Club, to the Fanatics impact, you know, the Nationals in his backyard again this year. So he'll be there. We'll talk about that and other hobby, current events. So with that being said, let's get to the episode.

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SPEAKER 2: Always love having the next gentleman on the show, he's been on the show multiple times. I'm not even sure where we're up to now. It doesn't matter. He's probably one of the the leaders in appearances on this show. But like I said, I always love having him. And I wanna welcome to the fours card shop guest line.

SPEAKER 2: Mr Mike. So, Wax Pack Hero.

SPEAKER 7: Hey, thanks for having me, John. If I, I knew that I was coming back on the sports coordination podcast today. So if I was gonna be on the show, I knew that I had to sponsor myself up. So I've got the sports card shop t-shirt, I've got the C hat, I've got the upper deck mic and I'm drinking a delicious soda stream, carbonated beverage tonight all for you.

SPEAKER 2: I'm honored, I think.

SPEAKER 2: Awesome. Awesome. And, and that's that lip service, Mike, you know, we've always pretty much gotten along and, been on your show you've been on and there's certain people, like I said before, we even started recording that are just gonna be staples at least once a year.

SPEAKER 2: If, if not more. You're on that you're on that short list.

SPEAKER 2: And so figured with some of the recent news, in the hobby, I do appreciate, your point of view and and, and there's been times where I've heard you say, talk about whatever certain topic and made me think about it either a different way or do a 1 80 literally, changed my mind on, on, on, on the way I was thinking and that's always a Mark of, to me, of intelligence and, and, and sometimes clear thinking.

SPEAKER 2: So we're gonna chop up, some of that stuff. But before you know, you, you obviously have a podcast in your own. Right? You're 3.5 years in, I guess I, I'll kind of give you a few questions at all at once. Like, does it feel that long and now being 3.5 years into it?

SPEAKER 2: What have some of the differences been from when you started to now and, and not even so much with your show, although that's fine, but just in the content, create, creating space that you've, that you've seen.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, that's a great question. I just hit, I think this week was episode 221. And, yeah, like you said, I started in like December of 2019. Right. Right. Before things started to get crazy and, you know, it's been a lot of fun this whole time. You know, I've, I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER 7: You know, I think one of the things that, you know, I've did some transitions in my own show over that period of time, you know, I started out with all these ideas of things I wanted to cover.

SPEAKER 7: I was gonna do two episodes a week and I started doing, doing that way for the first six or nine months, I was doing two episodes a week and most of those were solo episodes. And I then I started to transition into having interview guests. I realized that I loved having other people.

SPEAKER 7: Come on the show, get some other perspectives, get some other insights, things that I didn't know myself. And so there's a big part of the show now that is, is probably every other episode. Almost half the episodes are me interviewing somebody else as, as a part of the show that's been a transition.

SPEAKER 7: In, in the summer of 2020 is when I started the L CS on the weekends and with some of those additional responsibilities, some things had to go. And so the second show a week was one of those things that, that had to go. And so I moved from two shows a week to one show a week and I've been doing that for the last couple of years. It, it's been, it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER 7: You know, from time to time I think, you know, as I start to hear and see other people and other shows and as I gain more and more experience both in the hobby as well as podcasting, I think sometimes I question I saw I to be honest, I question how much value am I really adding at this point? Because there's so many educational voices that are, that are coming at the hobby from so many different angles, which is a great thing.

SPEAKER 7: But sometimes that makes me question, you know, how much, how much value am I really adding? Now, how is my voice, you know, really, that, much of a, of something that people need to hear, you know, with so many other voices out there, but it's still a lot of fun and I still feel like, if anything I'm able to share a little bit of my perspective and hopefully somebody finds some, some value in that.

SPEAKER 2: I think the last thing you said was what I was going to come back with here, Mike is sure there's a lot of shows as, as you just mentioned, but I, I like to think of myself included, but definitely you, we each bring a kind of our own perspective. You talk about stuff that happens in the store when you're there deals deals.

SPEAKER 2: He didn't get to do, you know, complete you, you talk, you talk about the, you know, the hits, you talk about the strikeouts. I try to do that even with some of the shows, I set up with and just experiences in general, right?

SPEAKER 2: And so I think when you, when you talk about your own experiences, I think you're bringing that's like fingerprints. Right. Well, I know a lot of deals are similar, you know, it's all, you know, there isn't too much that hasn't been done.

SPEAKER 2: They're, they're still unique to, to each person and, and to each, podcast and show and, and, and, you know, I, I'll say it, I've said this before, when you weren't here on the show, I'll say it when you're on the show. Right. There's some podcasts if you will that maybe don't like to talk about the negative stuff or, or I don't wanna say negative but a stuff that didn't work out the way you want.

SPEAKER 2: And I, I, I'll, I'll pat both of us on the back in this sense. We I know I've done it. I've heard you do it like say, hey, you know, I, I didn't hit this goal this year or great, you know, great collection came in and we just couldn't agree on a price that we sense for both of us. And so no, you know, no sale, no transaction was made.

SPEAKER 2: And, and it's that honesty and genuineness, right? It's not, you know, there's a lot of people just want to talk about all the great moments and there's nothing wrong with that either. But I like to and I know you, you're the same way, you know, tell the whole story, right? And I think that's maybe what sets some shows apart from, from other ones I feel that way.

SPEAKER 2: I always, when I hear whether it's you for me or a another content creator kind of talking about something that didn't necessarily go according to script or a as they wanted it to, to, I always find that refreshing cause it just, it, to me it shows an element of honesty and genuineness and sincerity.

SPEAKER 2: And you know, when that same person talks about something good that they did or happened to him, you know, not that no one's not telling the truth, but they're just, you, you take it more at, at face value like you should, when they're talking about both sides of the aisle, you, you kind of agree with that assessment.

SPEAKER 7: Oh yeah, I think from the beginning, you know, as I talked with you as I was getting started and I talked with them Rick Norton and I talked with other folks who had been doing some podcasts and content creation.

SPEAKER 7: One of the things that I landed on that was gonna be important to me was that I was gonna be genuine and I was going to be authentic and I was gonna tell my story, you know, as, as I went through this and as I started to share and I think that I've done that.

SPEAKER 7: And you know, as you talked about, there's a lot of other people that have come in and a lot of those folks have different style and a different approach and they bring, they come at the hobby in a different way.

SPEAKER 7: And for a period of time I found myself being a little bit like, well, they're doing this and their audience and they're following and they, you know, is just going through the moon. I was like, but that's not who I am. I, I can't do that.

SPEAKER 7: And so one of those, again, transparent things is I, I got a little bit comfortable with the fact that as more and more of those voices came, that meant my audience has been kind of plateau, you know, for the last period of time because a lot of that audience is being split and people, you know, listen, said, you know what, I'm not all about what Mike is about, you know, I've got different interests and so I'm gonna to listen to some of these other shows or follow some of these other shows.

SPEAKER 7: There's almost so much time in the day and that's fine and, and I had to get comfortable with that fact is I'm gonna keep being me, I'm gonna keep sharing things from my perspective, approach the hobby, the way that I want to approach it and that I enjoy approaching it.

SPEAKER 7: And if there's other people that are out there like me, they're gonna be the ones who gravitate towards my show and, and listen and join in or if there's people who want to hear what my perspective is, that's what what they're gonna gravitate towards.

SPEAKER 7: And if, if I'm not somebody's cup of tea that's fine and there's plenty of other options out there to hobby, the way that they're passionate about and to find people who create content that kind of gravitate towards those mindsets. And that's ok too.

SPEAKER 7: But it took a little bit for me to, get comfortable with that, I guess, you know, is that I, and to realize that I can't be all things to all people if I wanna stay genuine and authentic to kind of my own voice and my own approach to the hobby. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: Well, well said, and, and I, I agree with you and, you know, I'm sure you get asked, I get asked occasionally with someone who's either thinking about starting their own podcast or at least in the early stages and I'll get asked, you know, hey, John, what, any advice?

SPEAKER 2: And I don't, I don't throw a bunch of stuff at them. But what you said, and I probably told you this, you know, back, you know, four years ago, whatever it was, you know, and it was what you said, I think it's, it's true, like, just be yourself, right? Because people, people can snuff that stuff out.

SPEAKER 2: Anyway, even if you wear it, you know, I like to be funny but I'm still being, myself like anything I say or do is, is, is, is accurate or, or at least, you know, my opinion, you know, and, and that's the one piece of advice. I don't throw a ton of advice, have fun. Be yourself. Right.

SPEAKER 2: Because if you're doing this and you're not having fun, it becomes really work. Like, and, you know, it doesn't pay like your job should, so, you should, this should be like an outlet just like the hobby itself. Right. And so that's, those are really the two biggest right off the top.

SPEAKER 2: And, and like you said, people will gravitate that, that kind of like the same things you do and you'll sort of have your, your built in, baked in audience and that can grow too and you, you're right stuff plateau and then all of a sudden you see an increase of so, you know, it is like the hobby, people, people leave, people come in.

SPEAKER 2: It's constantly kind of growing, shrinking all at the same, all at the same time. And so, if you be yourself, you know, like my grandfather said this when I was a young kid and I was raised by my grandparents. He said, you know, if you be yourself, you don't have to pretend to, to be anybody else. And, I, I've kind of always been instilled in me. So, yeah.

SPEAKER 7: And I think, you know, you hit on something else there that I think is important, you talked about, you know, family one of the other aspects that I've come to realize.

SPEAKER 7: And I think it was probably Eric from, you know, those back pages, Eric who kind of when he encourages people, he says also think about it from that perspective of when you put things on a record and whether it's a podcast, whether it's a YouTube video, you're capturing you and that generations from now your kids, your grandkids, other people out there, they're gonna be able to look at that, listen to that and get a better picture of who you are, what you are about, the things that were important to you, the conversations that you've been able to have with other people.

SPEAKER 7: It's not just gonna be a story that's passed down to generations about what grandpa used to do. They're gonna actually be able to listen and hear those things. And I think about that a little bit too when you, especially when it comes to that authenticity.

SPEAKER 7: When some of those personal stories come through like you've shared and like I've shared, those are things that are now captured and, and commemorated for all into the future, for people to go back to, to your kids, your son to go to go and, and hopefully maybe someday your grandkids or whatever it might be right when you're authentic, they're getting a real picture of who you are.

SPEAKER 7: They're not getting a character, they're not getting a, you know, a front that, that is being put on, they're getting who you are.

SPEAKER 7: And so I look at the podcast and I look at some of the YouTube videos and the Tik Toks and the Instagram reels and all of these other things that I, that I do not just to entertain, not just to help educate, but also to capture who I am so that folks into the future are gonna be able to look back at that and have a better understanding of who I am too.

SPEAKER 7: I think that's a pretty cool thing about content creation that sometimes we overlook.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt. And, and Eric did say that he would keep, he's been on this show. I know he's been on your show. I coined it when, when he was here. I, I I'm pretty sure your, he said leave a legacy when he first said leave a legacy, you know, legacy is a big word, right?

SPEAKER 2: You think of like a celebrity or a superstar athlete? But we all have stories whether we're how, regardless of how famous we are, we all have the histories and you, you like, like Eric said and you, you said right there, right? Leaving that stuff for people behind us to you know, hit play and hear we may not even be around.

SPEAKER 2: Hopefully we are, but we may, you know, we're not gonna live forever. So that will always you know, exist for those who want to learn more about you, whether it's a family member or a hobbyist that does not, maybe not even in a hobby yet.

SPEAKER 2: And, and they can find that information and especially you do a lot of, you do a lot more of this than I do with, with kind of teaching different things about how to do this or look at it this way and, and, and that's always a good thing and a lot of that stuff as you well know, I is gonna be evergreen that you can, you can click on that 10 years from now and still take probably 90% of it is still effective.

SPEAKER 2: And if not more. And, I think that's, that's important. And so, you know, when Eric first said about leaving a legacy, it sounded such like such grandiose, but then, you know, hearing him explain that it made a lot of sense and, and you touched on it a, a lot of it, right there.

SPEAKER 2: So that's another great point for someone who's thinking about starting whether it be like you said YouTube or just an audio podcast or a combination of both or, or other Social Media, like you said, there's short forms, right in TikTok and what not, they're all, they're all can be there for years and, and decades later for anyone to kind of find and see and, and learn. And I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER 2: And, a matter of fact, one of my future articles I'm gonna write is kind of pertaining to, don't take that for granted. Right? Is to, that stuff's, important and, you know, that, you know, even, even for your own self, right to look back and remember a time in your life, you know, maybe five years ago and maybe you've even changed your mind.

SPEAKER 2: Like, man, I'm a different, I have a different opinion today than five years ago. I've done that. I'm sure you've done that, and that sort of thing and that's always kind of like the self growth type thing. So I, I think it's important. All right. You know, we're both my, I'm not anymore, so I kind of put a again ahead but you were one year ahead of me in the Montgomery 5 82 club that, that tops started.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, as you well know, right there was a period there, Mike where everything was like instant might just touch, right. Everything turned to go. If you got it, you could, whether you want, whether if you wanted to open it, you probably did well or if you wanted to sell it in tat, you did even, probably even better.

SPEAKER 2: And it was, it, let's be honest, it was, it was nice because it, it, it paid for the, the membership to the club and then some and then you can acquire some stuff for your PC as well. It started to change a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: I was on the fence, about going, I know I talked to you kind of off the air about what, what your intentions were. I wound up not doing it. So I guess my first question is, did you do it? And what are you, you know, what are your thoughts on kind of where it started and, and where it is even today?

SPEAKER 7: So, yes, I am still a member. I did renew for this, this coming year, but I like you.

SPEAKER 7: After last year was on the fence of, of whether I was going to renew again this year. Yeah, I, I signed up in the very first year. I think it was about $200 that first year. And you got your complete set, five or six other mini sets throughout the year with at least two guaranteed autographs. That's what the, that first year for $200 was like.

SPEAKER 7: And I thought that was a pretty interesting concept. I thought it was a, an interesting opportunity. Something I was willing to take a chance on at that price to see if I'd get some value back. The second year was really the gold mine for people, especially if you were a member in the first year because that second year going into 2020 was when they added on the presales the first year.

SPEAKER 7: There were no presales to the online exclusive products. It was just the, the guaranteed products that were part of the club. The second year they added on those presales and members who were in the club, the first year were able to renew at that same price.

SPEAKER 7: And so you were able to get in that second year at the original $199 or whatever it was. And that was right when everything started to get short. And so any of those presales were guaranteed profit. And so it was a gold mine to be in the, in the Montgomery Club. In that second year, the third year was similar, we started to see a little bit of a change with some prices of those pre sale products come up.

SPEAKER 7: And by last year, the people who were renewing at an elevated rate, it had the, the idea of the mini sets and the, and the guaranteed, full box set, the full, you know, base set with the special stamp. That was an afterthought and it became all about the presales and people were excited to get in for that.

SPEAKER 7: But as we know, tops was like, wait a second, people are making way too much money on this. And last year, the value except for a couple of those pre sale products really wasn't there.

SPEAKER 7: And so, the, the prices that they were charging us members to buy some of those, those, online exclusive wax boxes were, were pretty steep and things had started to normalize and I, I, I, I, if it weren't for a few well timed sales early on in the last year's membership year, it would have been tough to, to break even, you know, with, with some of those products.

SPEAKER 7: Especially if you wanted to keep anything for yourself of, of the actual membership products. And so that's what was making me pretty skeptical about whether I was going to renew going into this year. But then going into this year, they revamped it a little bit.

SPEAKER 7: They limited and kind of called out the specific five or six pre sale products that there was gonna be and they cut the actual guaranteed products down to the special factory set and one product with no guaranteed a autograph and they reduced the price quite a bit as well. And so I was like, well, I'm gonna give it one more chance and, and see how things go here.

SPEAKER 7: I've been a member of this whole time. I wanna kind of keep that going. And so I decided to go ahead and take a chance, for this year as well. We just got our MNI set a couple of weeks ago.

SPEAKER 7: So we really hadn't had any products through the first five months of the year or so. And so we just had our first product that was ok, sometime late summer after series two is out is when we'll get that factory set and that's fine and we just had access to our first pre sale as well.

SPEAKER 7: That I went ahead and picked up, I think it was the, Star Wars sapphire product and, it was at a reasonable $200 price tag. At least it seems reasonable. We'll see how things go, you know.

SPEAKER 7: It, it wasn't a, a crazy three or four or $500 price tag that we've seen on some of those, those products. So I'm, the jury is still out on whether or not the 2023 Montgomery Club is gonna be worth it. So that was, that was a long, a long conversation about, where things started, where things are at now and kind of what my current thoughts are.

SPEAKER 2: Well, it doesn't, you know, that doesn't matter. You, like you said you were, you were in it right from the, the jump. So I do appreciate your opinion. I know you've done episodes, talking about, I've even done a, a few of those for that matter. But you're, you know, you really deep dive into, you know, the Pros and cons and, and this year was a really good year if you were in it.

SPEAKER 2: And, and, and I went, again, going back to appreciating someone who gives you the straight scoop, right? You, you said, hey, it's the jury is still out. Well, it's to be deterred TBD to, to whether this year was going to be a good Montgomery Club year or, or not. Well, you, you know what, it's funny for me, I, I missed the first year, Mike and I think it made it easier for, for me, you know, not to make excuses.

SPEAKER 2: But I do think it made it easier for me to not like, join this year. Like I said, I didn't had, I probably been in it from the Jump Street the first year, which I missed, it might have been where I almost felt like I didn't want to give it up.

SPEAKER 2: And that's just a natural human nature to, to, you know, when you start something you sort of want, you know, due to the, the conclusion, do you think there was a little bit in that for you? Like, I don't know if you want to call it FOMO? I don't think it's like the true different mission of FOMO. But being that, hey, I was, I was an inaugural member here. I really don't want to get off the ride just yet, I think.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, I was, I was an inaugural member and all of those factory sets and all of those mini sets. I've got it in a binder that I look at regularly. Right. So I didn't sell any of those kind of sets that were guaranteed parts of the club, I added those to my PC. Originally I joined it to build my PC, the, the pre sale access that was all added on later on.

SPEAKER 7: Right. And so there was a little bit of that, you know, I'm, if, if I can justify this at all. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and sign up again and take the chance and kind of be able to continue that binder with every one of those guaranteed sets that were part of the club. The hard part, like you said, is the key thing about now, is it worth it?

SPEAKER 7: Well, the, the 150 or $200. I, I don't even remember exactly what it, what it was back again down to in 2023 with the only one guaranteed product in that factory set, it's not gonna be value worth it if the guarantee pre or the pre sale products, those six products or whatever are priced through the roof. Right.

SPEAKER 7: You know, those, those two sets alone aren't gonna be worth it anymore. And whether or not this year the jury is still out. It's because it all depends on what tops is gonna charge us for those pre sale products if they are too much and they flood the market and they give us pres sae access, but they're not sold out and the, the they're publicly available to everybody on tops dot com as well.

SPEAKER 7: And, you know, it's just not gonna it's just not gonna do anything, you know, overall from a value perspective. And so we'll just have to see how things go, you know, from here on out, whether it's gonna be worth it.

SPEAKER 7: I am glad I'm at least gonna be able to continue one more year's worth of products to add to that reminder that I've got all of those other ones in and it's fun to look back at, you know, who you had as, as rookies and things and those products over the last few years. It's been, it's been neat to see those things build in the different designs, but we'll just have to see how it goes.

SPEAKER 7: But, yeah, there is a piece of that for sure that, you know, being a, a founding member or an inaugural member or whatever they call it, you know, it's, it's kind of neat to have every single product that they've released as part of the club in my collection.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I completely understand that. And I think, like I said, me not being, and I have a binder with the years, I think the three years I did it, I have all those sets in, in my binder and like you said, it's fun to look at some of the rookies they put in it. How they're doing. Was it a good call? Bad call, that type of thing? But I'm missing that first year. Right.

SPEAKER 2: So I think it was easier for me to kind of get off the train, because of that. But it had that, like in your case, you know, you want, you want to keep going. I mean, again, like you said, the jury is still out, the verdict is not in if it, if the, if it was over today and it was time to, and again, you can change your mind. And this is just, I mean, where, which way would you lean today would you say?

SPEAKER 7: Oh man, it, it is so tough because we've only had the one product and one of the like five or six presales. And so it really would come down to, I, I really need to see what they price these next several presales at and what they price the club membership at and what products or what mini sets they're gonna guarantee, you know, going into 2024.

SPEAKER 7: Is it still gonna just be the factory set and one mini set or are they gonna kind of layer back in some additional, some additional products?

SPEAKER 7: If, if they would have kept it the way that it was priced and the, the style and the format that they did in 2022 I would not have renewed in 2023.

SPEAKER 3: Someone's at my door. I've got to get that be right back.

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SPEAKER 3: Sports card nation has returned.

SPEAKER 2: Are, are you seeing the Fanatics influence on the Montgomery Club at all or is it too early? You think to, to determine that?

SPEAKER 7: I think it's, it's a little bit too early to tell. I mean, if anything you maybe saw small pieces of it going into the restructuring that we, we moved into in 2023. I think they increased the number of memberships that were gonna be available to people which, you know, fits in that Fanatics mold of wanting, wanting more customers and more guaranteed cash flow coming in. Right.

SPEAKER 7: So I think we saw a little bit of that.

SPEAKER 7: We by reducing the number of presales that streamlined their operations because tops dot com, quite frankly, wasn't able to handle the flood of presales coming in and it seemed like they were messing something up every other pres sale. And so they cut that back, which meant that.

SPEAKER 2: We, we even had some conversations during some of those snafus like, hey, did you get it? No, did you get because we wanted to check like, is it me, is it, is it across the board?

SPEAKER 2: So yeah, I I I definitely definitely remember how many times like you get the email link and you, you literally just get it and you click on it and it says sold out, you know, like how is that possible that it's like five minutes ago, like time stamp on email and then you got to keep it and refresh and it became I don't wanna say a nightmare, but it definitely could.

SPEAKER 2: There was some frustrating frustrating moments and, and, and whatnot, like you said though, I think Fanatics, you know, their, their M O or their, what they want to do is, is, is grow the hobby out, you know, substantially. I, it would just be curious to see, you know, what they do with Montgomery Club in, in, factored into that, equate equation as well.

SPEAKER 7: So, yeah, it'll be interesting to, to see how it goes. I mean, I think those changes for 2023 were geared towards getting more people in the club but streamlining the, the whole operation and the support of the club at the same time, you know, and they tried a few other things over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER 7: The tops Future Stars Club was something that they did. That was a subscription model where you got a blaster box of different products and a mini set every month. And I love that as well. That was, that was awesome.

SPEAKER 7: And you get to see a variety of products and for basically 25 bucks a month, you got, your blaster box, you got this mini set and you got some kind of trinket sticker, you know, I phone case, you know, whatever, it might be like a little trinket along with it and it was a pretty cool opportunity as well.

SPEAKER 7: But they, they just cut, that didn't tell anybody, just stopped talking about it, removed it from the website. I don't think there was ever an announcement that the thanks for being a member of the Future Stars Club were discontinuing it.

SPEAKER 7: It just went away and, you know, there are a few other things like that that I think could have been cool opportunities to help build the hobby. But, you know, they, they discontinued that. It must not have been, been worth it as, as Fanatics took over and looked at the books.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, that's a good segue. Kind of my next question for you, Mike. I know you get this question from whether it be listeners or people coming into to the store and, and talking with you. I get it, whether it be at a show or, or email or direct message like, and it's really blunt and direct, right? I'll get a question like this that says John, are you worried about the direction the hobby is going?

SPEAKER 2: I'm sure you get it to, what's your take? You know, and, and when the whole Fanatics acquired the, the baseball licensing out from under tops, you know, being a Brooklyn kid, it, it would really definitely, it jarred me.

SPEAKER 2: It shocked me and, and, you know, at first I was stunned and then, you know, dust settles and you're like, listen, you know, as much as, my love for Tops just because they were in my backyard. And I grew up on it when you take a step back from that, really look at, you know, they, they made a lot of mistakes. They got maybe a little bit lackadaisical design and, and we can go on and on.

SPEAKER 2: And so I thought Well, maybe some fresh eyes, maybe a new perspective isn't the worst thing in the world. I wouldn't have ordered this, like, off a menu, but there's nothing we can do about it. Right. So, we got it like, you know, I'm not leaving the hobby because of something like that. So you sort of like make the best oven.

SPEAKER 2: So, at the time I, I said, when people ask me that question, then I said, I'm caught, you know, the two words I use were cautiously optimistic while I, while I wouldn't have, you know, ordered this, like I said, or wanted this to happen. Now that it is, let's, let's give it a fair shot. Now, here we are, you know, a couple year, almost two years, later, I'm a, you know, and I get asked the same question, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER 2: And I hope, you know, a lot of times we hope our, we're wrong with some of the way we feel. Right? God. Instinct. I'm a little more concerned today than I even was when that, that news first broke and seeing some of the way Fanatics handles business now, they're not doing anything, they're not breaking any business laws where they can get in trouble or fined or, or in front of Congress.

SPEAKER 2: And, but, but I think we both can agree. They're pretty cutthroat, when it comes to the corporate, world and again, there's nothing illegal about that. But it also makes me a little tentative because I, I just kind of say if they're like that on that level, why, why would they stop and, and just be all about the bottom line and dollar signs when it comes to us, the little guys, so to speak.

SPEAKER 2: And so I'm a little less cautiously optimistic. I'm not leaving the hobby. I'm, I'm heavy vintage at this point now too. So, you know, a lot of the stuff I like has already been, you know, I, I almost say what they do almost unaffected me. Other than from a content creation, it's not 100% accurate but it's, it's, it's highly accurate.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I, I guess when you get asked that question I, I'll, I'll kind of put you a little bit, you know, what's kind of your, your assessment, or how do you answer the same question? Yeah.

SPEAKER 7: I think, you know, as you were kind of sharing your perspective, I think we align on a lot of those, those mindsets, you know, I also was going into it with the idea that I think there's some fresh blood that could have been, a good thing that, that there's some different perspectives that can come in that are gonna, gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER 7: It seemed like tops and Panini had been a little bit lazy in both their, their product offerings as well as, customer service and innovation and a lot of those types of things, my preference would be that instead of Fanatics gobbling up exclusive licenses for three products for 20 years, my hope would have been, we would have shaken things up by adding additional licenses and that maybe they could have come in as a new entrant, with an additional license to help prompt some competition.

SPEAKER 7: And so I think that's my biggest, if I'm gonna have a concern, my biggest concern is we're, we're only extending this, this current environment. We find ourselves in with exclusive licenses for a long time into the future as far as the different things that they've done.

SPEAKER 7: You know, I think some of them I've liked and some of them that I've, I've not liked as much, but like you ever since we saw this huge run up in wax prices throughout 20 and 21 I shifted almost all of my hobby spend from wax into singles collections, vintage, like you mentioned.

SPEAKER 7: And so very little of what I buy now and what I actively collect is new stuff that Fanatics is gonna have any kind of hand in at this point. And so for the most part, a lot of what I'm after a lot of what I sell in the shop because I, I don't sell new acts based on the arrangement that I've got the things that they're doing don't impact me as my, my re buy and sell business, nor do, they impact me very much as a collector.

SPEAKER 7: And so I don't, I don't really have any negative things to say about the things that they've done so far from the new products that are coming out. I love if, if they're able to get it, I love their vision of reducing and minimizing and hopefully eliminating redemptions as much as possible in future products.

SPEAKER 7: I think that's a great thing for collectors. If they're able to truly grow the base of collectors 10 times or whatever it is that they're wanting to do, that's gonna be good for everybody. Whether you collect new stuff, whether you collect old stuff, having that many more people who are engaged in our hobby is gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER 7: But yeah, it seems like they are, they are a little cutthroat from time to time and I don't think that's something we're quite as used to in, in the, the recent hobby experience we have. I mean, clearly back in the fifties and sixties tops was cut throat to Bowman. Right. You know, we had to have lawsuits for, from Fleer to be able to get donor and Fleer to enter the hobby in the eighties.

SPEAKER 7: And so a little bit of cut throat, a little bit of exclusivity is not, it's not new to the hobby, but from what we experienced from the eighties to the nineties up through, you know, 10 or 15 years ago when those exclusive license started. That. That's a big change that we've had from those eighties and nineties and, and early two thousands era.

SPEAKER 7: And so I'm still cautiously optimistic about what Fanatics is gonna bring to the, to the table in the future, but I have no angst about it based on what I'm currently collecting and what I'm currently buying and selling at this point.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Piggy, backing off a couple of things. You said a couple of good points in there. A lot more than a couple but a couple, I want to focus on, you know, like you said, you, you know, you do, you do, you, you hope, you know, sometimes having almost more, call it an almost monopoly with upper deck, sort of retaining its, its license.

SPEAKER 2: At least for now it's some other crazy breaking news shocks. The hobby world. Right. You did? I, I don't, you know, you never know anymore. That's one thing, you know, I always tell people, I don't think so, but like, just, just when you think you've seen everything, something else, does happen.

SPEAKER 2: I, I, like you pointed out with tops having really the, the whole bag for many years. Right. I think that's sort of what led to some of the problems. Right. There was no competition, pushing them or driving them to be better. They, they kind of, you want, you want baseball cards we're at. Right. Well, here you go. Here's, this year's product.

SPEAKER 2: And, and with not a lot of incentive to, you know, you know, there wasn't competition driving them to, to get that sale. And that's what worries me. Now, with the current incarnation is that we, are we going to go back there again? And then another great point is something I said when this deal was announced, right, a 20 year contract to me, that's too long.

SPEAKER 2: I don't care what industry, that's just way too long for a league, a players, association to, to lock in. When you think I'm married 24 years, Mike, I know what 20 years is. It's a, it's a long, it's a long time, right?

SPEAKER 2: And I just think, you know, five or 10 years would have been better, especially, especially like all the more you, you have a new company that's never done this before. Like I'm not saying they, they don't, they're gonna hire great people. They have great people already in place, but they're brand new.

SPEAKER 2: It's not like, you know, upper deck acquire tops, let's say where they were already making cards and now they're gonna be making baseball cards again. This is a completely new realm for them. And so when I heard the 20 years that to me was more after the kind of like the initial shot got off, you know, settled down, the 20 year deal was really kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

SPEAKER 2: I just think that's too long for a new relationship to lock in. Right. I, you know, it's like when you get married. Right. It's supposed to be forever through sickness through, I get that. But in business. Right. 20 to sign a 20 year contract is just a long, a long time. And that I, I just, especially with a new company.

SPEAKER 2: I mean, your thoughts on, on the length of, of their, their license. Yeah.

SPEAKER 7: I think the, the disappointing thing to me is my hope was that the next transition we saw was gonna bring more licenses per sport to be able to have some more of that competition.

SPEAKER 7: That 20 year thing does seem long, you know?

SPEAKER 7: But I think one of the things I've been thinking about quite a bit and it's actually gonna be, it's gonna come up a little bit and, my most recent or my June, Hobby News Daily article, one of the things I talk about in this upcoming article is the, the time horizon mindset that we, we bring as collectors, you know, we can get caught up in this, this mindset about what's in front of our faces right now and we lose a little bit of perspective on the long, the long horizon.

SPEAKER 7: You've been collecting cards since, what, 1978 or something like that. Right.

SPEAKER 2: You're making me 79. I don't need to be one more.

SPEAKER 2: I've been getting my own money since 86.

SPEAKER 7: We've lived through multiple cycles. Right. There was a huge run up in prices and the hype and everything through the late eighties and early nineties and we thought cards were, were gonna be too expensive and they were running these, this hobby into the ground by overproduction and all of this kind of stuff. Well, you know what, there was a little bit of truth to that.

SPEAKER 7: Things pulled back but the hobby adjusted and corrected and we went into a period where there might have been some, there's a, a fewer number of people collecting, but there were still collectors and the hobby was still alive. And we've seen that ebb and flow over these last few years and it's been crazy hype these last few years we've had new companies coming in, new marketplaces coming in.

SPEAKER 7: We have, you know, new businesses everywhere. We have new content creators hyping this and hyping that and we get, and I, I worked up a little bit about where things are at with current prices and current, you know, players and these, the licenses shake ups. You know what if they do? Good, great. You know, if that 20 years and Fanatics knocks out the park great.

SPEAKER 7: The hobby is gonna be strong if they completely botch it, the hobby is not gonna end, there's gonna be a correction Fanatics is gonna go away, but somebody is gonna come in, step in and fill that void.

SPEAKER 7: Worst case is there's a period of time where I don't buy any new products and I continue to focus on the 100 years plus worth of products and cards that are out there that I can go after and pursue and collect and things will still be fine. So if, if we take a step back sometimes and think about things from that long perspective, have a little bit of patience, things are gonna work themselves out. Prices are gonna come down.

SPEAKER 7: Certain products are gonna come, certain products are gonna go, you know, the hype of of grading is gonna rise. The hype of grading is gonna fall. The hype of wax is gonna rise. The hype of wax is gonna fall. The hype of vintage is gonna rise. The hype of vintage is gonna fall.

SPEAKER 7: There's gonna be things that continue to ebb and flow, but there's still gonna be a base of us collectors out there who love these little pieces of cardboard with pictures of men on them playing sports or celebrating movies or TV shows for the people who like the entertainment cards, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER 7: There's still gonna be a basic collectors who are patiently waiting it out and are gonna wait for that opportunity to get back in and buy the things that they love to buy, to collect and, and I think we just, we got to keep a little bit of that perspective and not just get so focused on what's right in front of us at any given time.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I feel better already. After that. I feel like I you should send me a bill for like being almost a therapist there. I feel a little bit better. But you make great all joking aside. It is great points, right? Sometimes we really, we react so fast and then you don't really see, like you said, the long view, we just see like today, the sky is sort of falling or this is terrible how, you know, how is this gonna work?

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, like we both, like we both kind of do we, we collect a lot of stuff that's already been produced. We don't have to really rely if we were strictly modern and ultramodern, we would really be, no, and probably biting our fingernails and that sort of thing about what's to come or what's around the next corner.

SPEAKER 2: So I think you, you got to keep things in perspective. So I think that was, that was, well said, let's get, I, I don't want to talk about, I don't know about you, but I don't want to talk about Fanatics, anymore. You mentioned, you know, your, your shop and, and, and, and, and that sort of thing, you talk about it obviously on your own show.

SPEAKER 2: And, and you're there on weekends, it's a store within the store has the experience. And I know it's mostly been positive for you a as illustrated, you know, you sharing your experience, has it made you consider maybe doing it in maybe a different location like full, not full time, but even on a more of a daily basis, like that sort of thing or, or are you comfortable with the, the current?

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, I've learned it ton by having the brick and mortar experience in addition to the selling online that I had been doing for years and years.

SPEAKER 7: The additional face to face interaction, the face to face negotiation when people are, are buying and selling with me, selling the collection or buying cards that I've got that, that face to face negotiation experience is, is huge.

SPEAKER 7: The, the dynamics of just the, the back end and the logistics of things and the doing the taxes the right way, doing the, you know, planning your cash flow, the right way, all of those things that come into play when you're, when you're thinking about having that physical shop or all things that I've, I've learned a ton about.

SPEAKER 7: And also that reality of what it would take to and how hard it is to run a shop full time as your primary occupation and as that primary source of, of income for your family, how hard that would be to do full time, the setup that we've got with the shop within the shop.

SPEAKER 7: And me just being there for four hours on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. It's a perfect setup for me to still be able to be primarily devoted to my day job and my family, but still have, have the physical shop as, on the side and, and not be too overwhelming.

SPEAKER 7: I don't think as long as I'm still kind of in, in kind of my main career age that I would be interested at this point in completely leaving that to do cards full time in a, in a physical location.

SPEAKER 7: It would take some major shifts. My, my primary focus is it would be hard for me to make enough to pay full rent of a Lesa space to pay full utilities to, you know, for what it would take to do that and still make enough to bring home.

SPEAKER 7: It would be tough for me to, to go at it from that perspective. And so if anything, it kind of solidified that I love the setup that we've got now, but I don't think I would be interested in doing it full time at this point in my career, you know, maybe when I retire, but at that point, I kind of want a little bit of flexibility and freedom and you still have that somewhat by selling online.

SPEAKER 7: And so I, I, I see myself, you know, at this point, just continuing to sell online at that point, you know, 10 years from now or whatever that might be.

SPEAKER 7: And so to, to answer your question, I've learned a ton, I would not give up that opportunity for anything that I've had these last few years. I'm planning to continue to do it for the foreseeable future as long as that, that current relationship exists with the main L CS that I'm kind of inside of. But no, it, it has not made me want to, pursue doing that on my own in a separate location.

SPEAKER 2: As a former store owner. And, and so a lot of that stuff hits close to fully understand that. Right. You know, you know, when you retire, you know, you think that, right, you kind of, I don't know, I don't want to speak for you. I want to travel a little bit more maybe than I do now. Even to another country. I've never been to Italy. It's on my, on my butt.

SPEAKER 2: The heck. There's stuff in the US. I've never been to Boston, which is really not that far from me. New Orleans, right. So that travel aspect and sort of when I had my store back in, in the, 92 to 97 you know, it was ebay was, was kind of, just getting really revved up and, you know, I was kind of locked into the store and when ebay kind of really became a thing, it was easier to kind of sell to my partner.

SPEAKER 2: And I've talked about this numerous times. So I, I'm not gonna go, all that in depth and kind of do shows and do online stuff and not sort of be. And I loved my store days, Mike, like you said. But, you know, I, I, I also enjoyed the freedom and still being able to buy and sell cards at the same time and not have my, hey, my friends, hey, we're doing this.

SPEAKER 2: You come in, I can't, I got, it's my day at the store, you know, I had a partner and we had a, a schedule. So so I, I, I, I fully get that and, you know, even now I, I occasionally get asked to John. You ever think of, would you ever consider a store again?

SPEAKER 2: Like you, I would not quit my my teaching job. If I did it, it would have to literally be 3 30 to 8 o'clock or whatever I did determine closing time and then I don't know how that would change the dynamic here even so it's not, it's not even an automatic. Yes. And so there's just so many, you point out some great points that there's so many variables, right?

SPEAKER 2: People think you just, you know, flip the sign over to say open and it's all easy after that. It's not as simple as that. And there's a lot that goes into it. You mentioned taxes and accounting and, and, and rent and utility. It just this, it's, it's not a simple equation. You really gotta, you know, do the pros and cons when you're married. You got children.

SPEAKER 2: You know, and I, my, my son's grown up. Yours, your girls are younger. It's a, it's a different situation even for both of us. But I, I think you, I, I, I kind of agree with what you said even though it's your situation, is what it is. Well, kind of coming down to home here. My, the National back in your backyard, in Chicago. I know that you appreciate that because you can go, we missed you, we missed you last year.

SPEAKER 2: You know, you, you've been to multiple Nationals. It, it's, you know, I call it the greatest show, of the year. You know, the Super Bowl of the Hobby. I've, I've kind of coined it with the kind of landscape changed over the last couple of years. Do you anticipate a different vibe at this year's National? I mean, what are your expectations going into to here? We're 50 something days away now.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I'm looking forward.

SPEAKER 7: To the National again here this, this year in, in Rosemont, in Chicago.

SPEAKER 7: You know, this, this will be my third and all three so far have been in Chicago. So 2000, 17 was my 1st, 2000. I guess it'll be my 4th, 17 1921.

SPEAKER 7: And then here in in 23. And, I, I think it's gonna be interesting, you know, last year we were, we were seeing certain segments of the market start to peak. There's a lot of doom and gloom about the National. Nobody wants to go to New Jersey. It's gonna be a ghost town.

SPEAKER 7: Everything's crashing, you know, nobody's, everybody's gonna be wanting to sell stuff and the vendors aren't gonna be buying because they're gonna be worried about selling stuff. You know, we had all these, these, you know, stories out there and there are bits and pieces of that that I think played out from everything that I heard.

SPEAKER 7: But, you know, this year we've got kind of this whole another dynamic of, you know, consolidation that continues to happen. You know, we've started to see some of the startups that we, that came onto the scene over the last couple of years start to, fade a little bit. You know, we've, we've seen a couple of those go, go out of business or they seem to be on their way of, of going out of business.

SPEAKER 7: And I think there's probably a few more that are, are probably, on that fence, you know, are teetering a little bit and in these next, you know, several months or the, the rest of this year are gonna be big drivers of how health they are and whether they're gonna be able to continue to survive, you know, it seemed like, you know, whatnot was, a runaway train that was growing and everybody's going on whatnot.

SPEAKER 7: We've seen scandals and we know that Fanatics is gonna be starting their own, you know, live streaming platform. And I think that has potential to put a damper in what whatnot was trying to do.

SPEAKER 7: You know, and, and loop along the way. They've kind of been more slow and steady, you know, growth that they've seen. They're still doing well at a, at a smaller scale, but they're still doing well. But it'll be interesting to see what this live streaming platform from Fanatics is gonna do to them.

SPEAKER 7: The fractional market market is changing, right? So all of these, these businesses that were coming into the corporate booth trying to make a big splash. I think that corporate dynamic is gonna be a little bit different, right? You know, there's the, the Fanatics Panini lawsuit that's going on about the employee, the employees jumping ship and all of that stuff going on.

SPEAKER 7: You know, there's, there's, I think that corporate dynamic is gonna be an interesting thing to observe this year and how much of that boils up and how much of them, how well are they able to put on that corporate face and kind of paint that picture of things as business as usual. I think I'm interested to see that from the dealer perspective, from the collector's perspective.

SPEAKER 7: I expect it to be as busy as ever from everything I've heard with the National opening up, additional square footage of, to allow for, for more space for, for people and vendors and everything else. I mean, every indication that there's gonna be plenty of collectors and plenty of dealers there, looking to celebrate the hobby.

SPEAKER 7: And so that's the piece that I'm, I'm excited about as well. I'll be up there from Wednesday through Friday this year. Friday is my daughter's birthday and so, I'm gonna need to be home by that night, to be able to celebrate her birthday, that Friday. So I'll just be there on the, the first half of the.

SPEAKER 2: Show that's called, Being a Great Dad and, and some people probably could take a page from that book. I won't, you know, you either know, or you don't know. But, that's one thing I appreciate about your, like, family first and, very important and, you know, some people wouldn't even say that right.

SPEAKER 2: You know, and yet you're very transparent, like, hey, my daughter's birthday, I'll be home to, to celebrate it. And, I appreciate that about you. Yeah, great points with the, the corporate dynamic. Maybe we see a brawl on the floor. Are you predicting that? Did, did I get a hint of that in?

SPEAKER 7: Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how, how some of these, some of these things play out over the next couple of months.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. And it, it always seems like at the Nationals there's one kind of storyline that does sort of come out of there. So it'll be interesting to see if we get that what it is, and that sort of thing. But you, you know, you hit it right on the head. Right.

SPEAKER 2: Regardless of the corporate, regardless of that vibe, the Collector vibe and, and the people in the hobby vibe that's gonna be, I think, you know, par for the course and, and when I say par for the course, I think it's gonna be tremendous, par for the course. It's gonna be heavily attended.

SPEAKER 2: I think that's, a safe bet, to say as, as most of the, you know, the Chicago Nationals I've been to and, and you've been to the even more, you know, I think it's, it's, there's gonna be no shortage of people going through the door and attending and transacting. And so, you know, like you said, the hobby is never going to die.

SPEAKER 2: You hear people with the, you know, sky is falling, the hobby is dead and, you know, my last six shows, have all been very good or even better than very good. And, you know, so, you know, I, I, I'm not leaving, the corporate stuff is nothing I can like you. I'm sure you'll agree. There's nothing we can do about it.

SPEAKER 2: We're we're not in that, necessary directly in that realm. It's gonna, it's gonna play out the way it's going to do and obviously sometimes it's gonna play out in the courtroom as well. But, you know, besides just on the business level, but, it makes for good content but it really doesn't affect how we hobby, necessarily, you know, unless you, unless you let it, I guess is the way to say it.

SPEAKER 2: So, I look forward to when I know it's in Chicago and I, I know we missed you last year. You know, when I, when I know it's in Chicago, for sure, we're gonna, we're gonna see you and I look forward to as always, seeing with you.

SPEAKER 2: I know we would do the tops and a, I probably shouldn't say that too loud, kind of a little secret kind of thing. And, but, you know, we'll just have to get online early as we always do to get in there.

SPEAKER 2: But, looking forward to or count, you know, the countdown has begun and, you know, it's funny the minute it ends, Mike, I guess you feel the same way, especially if, you know, you go and you start counting the days, to the next one. It goes quick that 34 or five days, whatever. You, it's, it's quick and, you sort of got to have a game plan or you, you won't, you won't get to do everything.

SPEAKER 2: You want to but I'm looking forward to it. I, I know you are too and we'll, we'll kind of take notes together and see what we, we compare them when we're there.

SPEAKER 7: Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's always great to see some people that you don't get a chance to, to interact with face to face except for the big events like the National.

SPEAKER 7: And so I'm, I'm excited to get to, to meet some people face to face that I have met over these last two years only online and also get a chance to see folks like you who we've interacted face to face, you know, over these last several years and get to see you again.

SPEAKER 7: I, I'm looking forward to the relationships probably, first and foremost, and then getting a chance to dig through some dollar boxes at the, at the singles club and, and belly up to some, you know, monster boxes with Doctor Beckett and one I was.

SPEAKER 2: Gonna say you're gonna have to fight Doctor Jim. You're, it's like boxing out in basketball, you're gonna have to get like a good spot and like, you know, get in front of the boxes.

SPEAKER 7: I, I always say that there's a couple of years ago people were like, are you do people still go through dollar boxes? I'm like, tell you what I was at the singles club and in a row it's Dr Jim. It's me, it's one million Cubs bow and it's uncle, Uncle Rich. And I'd say that's a pretty good company to have all back to, back, to, back to back, going through those boxes.

SPEAKER 2: So, well, listen, it's coming up. We're, we're crossing the days off the calendar and, look forward to seeing you, any time but, always at the National and, Mike, I appreciate you coming on and, and making some time and, sharing your, your insight and, and your knowledge and, I always feel better.

SPEAKER 2: It's weird. I always, it's not weird but I always feel better, when we come, whether we're recording or not recording, I just, it just, you know, you bring that sort of perspective and, and sort of that the voice of, of reason if you will and, always appreciate it.

SPEAKER 7: Hey, I, I appreciate you asking me to, to join you. It's always good to catch up, no doubt.

SPEAKER 2: All right, Michael. We'll see you soon. Yeah. Talk to you later.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, to Mike Summer for being our guest.

SPEAKER 2: This week again, he's been on the show, I don't know, four or five times. Maybe. I, I, it doesn't matter. I don't keep a, a scorecard. It's just for, you know, we haven't had him on in a while, ask him to come back on and he's very gracious and, check out the wax pack Hero Minute, if you haven't already.

SPEAKER 2: And, you know, one thing I like about mke, he, he gives you, you know, his honest opinion, an assessment and, very smart guy, obviously.

SPEAKER 2: And so a lot of what he says and does makes all the sense in, in the world and we may not even always agree on a topic, but, you know, he's intelligent to the level, we can have a serious, you know, discussion about it without, you know, getting crazy off the hand on all that, stuff that sometimes occurs when you don't always agree.

SPEAKER 2: But, generally, we, we agree for the most part and, I've known Mike now years and, he's, he's always welcome, on the program and, always glad to have him.

SPEAKER 9: Hobby News Daily is your home page of the hobby providing original writing, exclusive gem rate data, a daily morning minute podcast and some of the best content creators in the hobby. Remember Hobby News Daily dot com. And at Hobby News Daily on social Happy Collecting.

SPEAKER 10: Hi, this is Pat Hughes Cubs announcer. Coming to you from the sports card shop in beautiful New Buffalo. Michigan. The Gocher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the sports card shop dot com. Connecting sports athletes, the hobby and collectors around the world.

SPEAKER 1: That's a wrap for this week. Huge thanks to you, the listeners out there because without you, there is no ice.

SPEAKER 1: If you like the show, we truly appreciate positive reviews.

SPEAKER 1: Big ups to our great guests who drive the show and our awesome sponsors who make it all possible. Sports Cod Nation will be back next week but don't forget to catch either hobby quick hits or Card Mensches. Coming up on Monday.

SPEAKER 1: I leave you with this.

SPEAKER 1: How do we change the world?

SPEAKER 1: One random act of kindness at a time.

SPEAKER 1: Remember the hobby is the people.