Ep.234 w/ Chris Harris "Call it like we see it"

SPEAKER 1: Here's a gentleman who's a fierce advocate and ambassador for this great hobby.

SPEAKER 1: He has his finger on the pulse of the hobby. However, his voice is nowhere as smooth as mine, but he does try.

SPEAKER 1: Here is John Newman.

SPEAKER 2: What is up? Welcome to episode 2 34. Well, we just, you know, celebrated Memorial Day, not so much a celebration, maybe the wrong word but day of remembrance. Right? We, we remember those who gave the ultimate paid the ultimate price, right? Gave their lives to the freedoms that we have to partake and enjoy the things we enjoy partaking in.

SPEAKER 2: So whether that's, you know, sports cards or whatever other hobbies, you know, Memorial Day is, you know, I think sometimes people get Memorial Day and Veterans Day sort of intertwined. Veterans Day is a celebration of all those who serve. And Memorial Day is a day of remembrance. And I always take multiple times to kind of quiet moments to think about.

SPEAKER 2: You know, there's been over a million people can look it up if you don't believe me. From the Civil War to current times, over a million servicemen and William, women have laid down their, their lives in service of this country. So, you know, we, we only have take one day, but really, you know, it's, it's 365 days a year. We have our, our freedoms. And so we owe that to those folks.

SPEAKER 2: We owe those that to those folks who gave the ultimate sacrifice. So I just wanted to, to acknowledge that here and I hope, I hope your Memorial Day was a fun one spent with family friends. And the like as, as I did and, was, was kind of fun. We had some ribs on the grill and, and some food and, hung out on the deck.

SPEAKER 2: Me and my son Jordan smoked a few cigars and, my dog, was trying to catch a mole and I tried to save them all. I actually did save the mole. But he bit me. So I got bit by a mole on Memorial Day. There's, there's my, 15 minutes of mole fame, but, great guest today. We got Chris Harris, fellow hobby hotline teammate, first time on the show, somehow, but, as I always say, better late than, than ever.

SPEAKER 2: And Chris is a pull no punches guy. You don't have to wonder where Chris stands. He, he will tell you, he reminds, you know, I try to be like that I will give you my honest and straight opinion and, and Chris does too and he's been in the hobby a long time and I always say anyone that's in the hobby for those kind of years, loves hobby has a passion for it.

SPEAKER 2: So, don't make, you know, don't mistake Chris's directness with lacking passion for the hobbies. He's a passionate, guy and, finally glad to have him on and, I wanna talk about a variety of subjects past and, and present and, I think you'll enjoy the.

SPEAKER 3: Time for our hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 4: Everyone. This is Alex here from Relis Cards and collectibles in Toronto representing the Relics squad.

SPEAKER 3: I just want to remind everyone the hobby is the people if you'd like to be the hobby is the people announcer of the week. Do a wave or MP3 file and send it to sports Card nation PC at gmail dot com.

SPEAKER 6: Hi, this is Pat Hughes Cubs announcer. Coming to you from the sports card shop in beautiful New Buffalo, Michigan. The Gocher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the sports card shop dot com. Connecting sports athletes, the hobby and collectors around the world.

SPEAKER 7: Are you a new sports card collector or someone returning to the hobby? Maybe looking for a friendly trustworthy hobby?

SPEAKER 7: Community to hang out with and enjoy collecting Midwest box brands has been bringing collectors together for many years with affordable bricks helpful and a discord group packed with generous people who genuinely care about the hobby and other collectors check out the breaks at Midwest box breaks dot com. Our goal is to bring you as much value as possible. Also find us on Twitter at Midwest box brands.

SPEAKER 2: Hey folks, John here just wanted to remind you use the discount code M B B 10 for 10% off your first order at Midwest box breaks dot com, right? Real happy to be joined that the sports card shop at guest line by my friend and fellow hobby hotline teammate. First time on this show. Somehow. That's my bad. But yeah, but better late than, than ever. So it won't be never now. But Chris Harris, welcome to Sports Car Nation.

SPEAKER 5: Great to be here. Great to be here, John. I just want you to you to know and all the the the listeners and viewers that know at home. Why watching I am not 100% tonight. I just woke up this morning and I felt like I got run over by a truck. So I've been letting this virus pass.

SPEAKER 2: So yeah, I've been there. It's, it's thanks. I appreciate you. Like I said before we recorded, appreciate you. You playing hurt Chris. And I think that's just a testament to the kind of guy that anything for.

SPEAKER 5: You, John, anything.

SPEAKER 2: I almost beli, I almost believe that.

SPEAKER 2: All right, Chris, let's start out with it. It's the old boring standby question. But, you know, kind of how you got your, your, your first foray into the hobby.

SPEAKER 5: Well, I think we're roughly the same age. Give or take.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I'm 50 I'm 50.

SPEAKER 5: So, I'm, I'm a little bit younger than that. Not much. I'm not gonna say how old, I, I guess what this, what, brought me into baseball cards is that all my peers at Saint Francis De Sales? Elementary School in Barrington, New Jersey, all collected. And, that kind of got me into it and when I was maybe six or seven, my grandmother gave me like an old shoe box of my uncle's car.

SPEAKER 5: And from that point on, I've been a, I've pretty much been a card collector.

SPEAKER 5: I know there are a lot of folks our age that kind of, stopped collecting when they discovered other things like, alcohol and cars and girls. But I never did, which is, I guess why I never got much into alcohol or cars or why I'm still single.

SPEAKER 2: So, well, there's, there's worse things. We're glad we're glad you're in, in the hobby. And, so, you know, when you did, when you first started, was it, what was it, was it players? Was it teams. What was your target, of, you know, of your collecting.

SPEAKER 5: I kind of grew up, came of, of, during that time when the Phillies won their first World Series in 1980. And, they went to the World Series again in 83. And that's kind of what drew me and my peers into baseball.

SPEAKER 5: I'm gonna tell you a little something about myself that I don't tell to that. I, I don't think I've, I've, said this to you to many folks, but I always knew I was a little different than other kids.

SPEAKER 5: I always wanted to classify things, you know, I was always good at math. I was that one kid in your math class that got the answer right. But didn't show their work. So I always got like 10 points off each question.

SPEAKER 5: But I was also into like making lists of things and trying to build a set of things.

SPEAKER 5: I didn't realize about this and about myself until I was like halfway through grad school. But there was a name for that and it's called Asperger's Syndrome, which is, on the autistic spectrum. So, there, I, I guess I just outed myself as a, as a, well.

SPEAKER 2: Listen, no, it's not. And, and, and I work with youth, for my job and there are a few kids that have Asperger's, some have, you know, fully autistic there's different levels, obviously you're at a, at a high functioning level with, with what you do for work.

SPEAKER 2: And, and so, and like you said, you, you were answering the math problems basically in your head without having the, the writing it out. That's, that's a testament to what function level you you are. And, and again, kudos for, you know, and.

SPEAKER 5: Like, and like I said, when I was a kid, we didn't know anything about this. They didn't test for any of this stuff and, and like I said, I didn't even put a name to what I am until maybe 15 years ago.

SPEAKER 2: So, well, I, I appreciate, I appreciate you, you know, you know, being honest with that and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, that it takes a little courage to, to say that, but again, you're, you're highly functioning. I've known you for, I don't know how many years now, 34 or five years, so long that I don't even know the exact number.

SPEAKER 2: If you wouldn't have said that I wouldn't have known. And so I guess that that is, you know, and, and I think to Chris and I don't wanna make this a non hobby show either, but I think it's important to talk about, I think, you know, back then, like you said, 15 2025 years ago, even further back, you know, we didn't know as much about a lot of, a lot of these and then even what we did, right.

SPEAKER 2: It was sort of Taboo to really, like, say, hey, I'm, I deal with this or, you know, this is what I have or, you know, and now it's, now it's more, people are more accepting, more understanding towards that.

SPEAKER 2: I, I see that firsthand, every day in my job, Chris, at the high school, at the high school level. So, you know, it doesn't change how, what I think of you or how I feel about you. I appreciate you, you know, being brave enough, to, to share that. You know, let's start out with, you know, something that just let's start out with a current topic.

SPEAKER 2: You know, it just broke really couple of days a day, before we're, we're recording this, Peter, fanatics trying to get their own vault in marketplace, you know, buying P W C C and really eliminating a lot of the leg work. It's already up and running. They just come in, a couple of things, your thoughts on that, you know, regardless of what you think about fanatics just from, I guess, a business.

SPEAKER 2: And this is, you know, a hobby is a business too, just from a business perspective. And do you anticipate, do they keep the name of P W C C or do they put their own, brand on it and, and change it and, and maybe the timetable in your mind for all this to, to occur.

SPEAKER 5: Well, a as far as a, as, fanatics buying P W C C, why reinvent the wheel? Why, why go through the trouble of building out your own vault, building out all, all that when you can just, here, here's some money can we buy yours? I think it's, I think it's pretty, I mean, these are not stupid people running fanatics that, that's one thing.

SPEAKER 5: A as far as the name, I, I think they might change it to P W C C A fanatics experience. But you know, there, there's some equity in that brand. So I, I wouldn't surprise me if if they.

SPEAKER 2: Keep it Chris equity in, in the brand, Chris, I agree with you. I mean, P W listen, they, they've probably been the next biggest auction platform after Ebay after getting kicked off Ebay quite frankly. But as we both know, right, a few years back, there was some definitely a black cloud over the company with some accusations of shell bidding.

SPEAKER 5: Why, why, why did they get kicked off of Ebay?

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, yeah. Allegedly and yeah.

SPEAKER 2: And even before that though, as you well know, and I well know there was some indiscretions allegedly with not only shield bidding but even knowingly sell, you know, dealing with trim cards and people who do trim cards? I remember, I believe it was either the 2018 or 2019 National.

SPEAKER 2: They boo booth at the National was, was a ghost town. I mean, they were like, they were like, you know, no one wanted to go near that booth for kind of guilty by association. And I remember looking then and saying this kind of, how's this company gonna get past this?

SPEAKER 2: And this could be the death of this P W C C as we know now, years later, that wasn't the case and, and they, they somehow, you know, move got past that and, and thrived and then became a commodity that fanatics obviously had interested. Like you said, it's a smart move.

SPEAKER 2: I agree with you, Chris, you, you're buying your fault, it's already up and running. It's in the state of Oregon. No sales tax. All the, all the perks are, are baked in. You know, but going back to kind of where I started with this little ramble was you still have some of those bad vibes from a few years back.

SPEAKER 2: So I wouldn't be shocked if fanatics just says this is us, Pete. We, we, we, we bought it P W C C doesn't exist no more. Maybe some of the staff does, but they're fanatics employees now.

SPEAKER 2: And so this is the fanatics vault in market place and I think the fanatics name is big enough, they can get rid of the P W C C name and be all right. If they were, maybe a different company or not as, as global and, and, you know, maybe they do keep the P W C C name. You, you, you, you agree with that or you think they still, well.

SPEAKER 5: What does P W D, does anybody even remember what P W C C stood for? I think it was pre-war cards and something else. How much of their business is pre-war anymore?

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. It's a, it's a percentage. I, I don't think it, but it's not.

SPEAKER 5: Exclusive to pre-war cards. Right. So, maybe, but, but, but like I said, there's, there's still a lot of equity in that name. I, I don't think that they would change it. I mean, look, they, they bought tops and they didn't change that name.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: No, I, it's gonna be interesting to see. I, I guess my, you know, my last question, as far as this topic goes, Chris is, how soon do you think they get hands on with that? Do you think they want to be really full bore by the National? Which here is, you know, a couple of months away or do you think, you know, they'll kind of quietly ride the year out and maybe really get in there and 2020 four.

SPEAKER 5: Well, when they bought tops about a year and a half ago, they really didn't start getting their hands on it until this year's release is really, so I, I'm not gonna, I'm not, I don't think it's gonna take a year and a half before you see either a name change or what anything changes.

SPEAKER 5: And I don't know, is there anything really to change about, about that, about P W C C?

SPEAKER 2: Well, you know, obviously they're gonna look at the fee structure, what, what the buyers, the buyer premiums, the sellers, what the, the sellers have to pay for, for listing their stuff.

SPEAKER 5: And, and I, I never actually sold anything off of P W C C. So I'm not really.

SPEAKER 2: But yeah, they, they have some decisions to make. You know, we'll see what they do, how fast they do it, do they keep it status quo?

SPEAKER 2: You know, like you said, Chris, we're, we're a similar age kind of grew up in the hobby at the same time while we didn't know each other at that time, we were still around the same age growing up in hobby as you well know, and preaching to the here, you know, tops was the big boy in town back when we were younger and then obviously other brands start getting licensing.

SPEAKER 2: Don Russ Fleer, a upper deck came even later, and others after that Pacific. And then, you know, we, we started to get more variety and more competing.

SPEAKER 2: It was like that for a while. And now with fanatics in their takeover of, of the hobby. Really. There's no other way to phrase it. It's sort of going back to that very close to a monopoly type of deal that we were used to in the seventies and, and earlier and, and beginning of the eighties until that changed.

SPEAKER 2: I mean, your thoughts on that is, is, is, do you think that's good, bad? I mean, I know what I think but I, I wanna get your, your, I mean.

SPEAKER 5: It's getting bigger but it's getting bigger horizontally. You know, they're not, they have a card company. They have the distribution network, which is the Legacy fanatics website that sells all sorts of stuff. Now, they have a vaulting service.

SPEAKER 5: I don't know what else is out, out there for them, but they, they're all buying companies that don't necessary that compliment each other, but don't necessarily compete against each other where I think fanatics could get into trouble is if they try and buy a competing trading card company we've been hearing now really ever since last year's National that it was inevitable that, that they were gonna buy Panini.

SPEAKER 5: I think, and, and, and I wanna say this, I think a lot of people who follow me on Twitter know that my day job is an antitrust economic analyst for the federal government. So this is me speaking, this is not the federal trade commission speaking, even though I work for them.

SPEAKER 5: But I think if they try and buy either another vaulting service to go with, to try and buy up all the vaulting services or if they try and make a play for Panini, especially with the F T C that we have now, that's very activist in breaking up mergers. They could run into trouble. There again, this is just me speaking, not my employer. I have to get that disclaimer in.

SPEAKER 2: So, yeah, I agree. I mean, I was, I was, I think I was joking with Danny Black on, on, I don't know if it was a private conversation or we were recording.

SPEAKER 2: I'm just, I'm just, I, I said to him, you know, if this continues along the line just go and Michael Rubin could see himself in front of Congress explaining some stuff and, and testifying to, you know, what they're doing and, and how would, you know, he, he'll be trying to justify that it's not a monopoly and everything's on the up and up.

SPEAKER 2: I mean, I think their next thing, they're probably going to look at acquire and Chris that they don't have at this point and they mentioned it very early on when they announced the tops acquisition. They mentioned that they wanted potential to get into the grading, part of the hobby as well.

SPEAKER 2: I hope they don't. I see, you know, you, I saw you shaking your head. I, I don't want them to either.

SPEAKER 2: That's, to me that's a conflict of interest when you produce, when you produce cards and then are potentially encapsulating them and putting a numerical grade and then you're, you're gonna obviously grade other people's cards you didn't produce and do the same thing.

SPEAKER 2: I just, I just think it's, it's, if, if they have any sort of moral compass it would be something they would, avoid, you know, it's one thing to maybe do a special with an existing grading company where, hey, well, you know, all, all of our cards for the next month or nine bucks to grade, but to actually own the grading company.

SPEAKER 2: And, and, and be the deciding factor on what number your cards that you produce get and your, your, you know, your competitions cards get. I just, I don't like how that sits with me. I, I, I, I saw, I know you and I saw you, you know, you, you feel the same way you, you wanna, just kind of put your hand.

SPEAKER 5: I mean, well, I, I think fanatics has actually slabbed cards in the past, like in person autographs that they do with a fleets, they'll then put it in a slab and give it a certificate of authenticity. But they don't grade those cards either. But, yeah, I, I don't think, I don't think a lot of collectors would take a company, a fanatics, grading service. Really fanatics, grading service F G s.

SPEAKER 5: Seriously, because on the one hand you're you're grading the cards that you've made and distributed. Nobody's gonna, well, I'm sure there are some collectors that don't care. But I think most of us, that, that's a red flag. That's a red line you don't cross and I hope they don't.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I agree. And it, you know, it makes you wonder even if they did, let's, let's just go hypothetically, hey, they buy CS G, I'll just, I'll just make up a hypothetical situation. They buy CS G.

SPEAKER 2: Whether they changed the name or they, or they just call it CS G owned by fanatics or, you know, a division of fanatics. People know people, people, so people know who bought that, that news travels fast. I think what you just said, I, I think there will be people who no matter what the price level, they could be 10 bucks, 12 bucks a card.

SPEAKER 2: I think there's, there's some people that just will say I, I can't, in my, in, you know, in my mind, I can't send any of my cards to this company. I just don't feel comfortable. I don't think it's right.

SPEAKER 2: And, I think there'll be a high percentage of that. So just buying a grading company, Chris, I don't think will, will equal success and, and a matter of fact, the opposite can happen, you know, I think buying a vault or a marketplace is different. Because the, you know, the buyers and the and the bidders set the price. But with grading you, you are the judge, jury and execution.

SPEAKER 2: And that's where I think the difference is between those two entities. So I don't know how they do it. Even if they were to start one from the ground up, not even buy an existing one, just make their own or, or, or build their own. It's still the same thing. Right. They're gonna be grading top slash fanatics cards that just doesn't sit right with me.

SPEAKER 2: I'm sure many others will have the same vibe from, from that and then they're gonna grade, you know, obviously old cards, cards, all those other brands that are not under their umbrella and, you know, I know they'll say all the right things that our graders don't care what the card is. The player, the company, they're grading the card.

SPEAKER 2: And, but, you know, it's, you can say whatever you want, but I think people are still gonna, you know, the minute, the minute anyone gets a grade lower than they anticipated, you know, all those, all those people are gonna come out of the woodwork.

SPEAKER 2: I just, I, I don't, I don't know how it's gonna be possible for them. It's gonna be very difficult to rain to do that when they're producing cards that would be potentially graded on by their own company. So, and you have a great point.

SPEAKER 2: Go ahead.

SPEAKER 5: Where are they gonna get graders who's gonna wanna work for them in grading. I mean, they are, they're, you can't just hire a bunch of Jabroni off the street. You have to have people with hobby knowledge who know how to pick fakes out, who know how to do L R and top down measurements.

SPEAKER 5: Those guys are already at the graining companies. What do, what are you gonna do? Poach, poach, some of those guys like CS G did with B G si, I don't see them, I don't see that happening.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, it would be very difficult. I think that's what they would probably try to do is, is money talks, right? Say, hey, we'll give you $10,000 more a year. Come over here at least the first year, you know, whatever sign on bonus is, right? They can, they can call it all sorts of different things and, and, and like you said, poach some employee, listen, they did that. They didn't get to buy fein but they did steal.

SPEAKER 2: I don't wanna say steal, but they did, they did poach, like you said, that's probably the best word. They poached a lot of Panini employees and, and that sort of thing. So, so, you know, maybe they try that on the, on the grading level.

SPEAKER 2: I just think you, you know, you mentioned there's a lot, let's let's be real whether you like fanatics or don't like fanatics or there's a lot of smart people in that room, but we're having this conversation tonight. I'm sure they'll be having very similar discussions when that's a topic on the table.

SPEAKER 2: And, and I, you know, I think that I, I would hope they're smart enough to realize that, you know, not everything they will do will be, you know, might just touch, you know, I think that would be something if they tried, might be the reverse of, of some of the other decisions. They've, they've made time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but Sports Guard Nation will be right back after that.

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SPEAKER 3: Let's go. You are listening to the Sports Nation podcast.

SPEAKER 2: I know you like me, you kind of like your eighties and nineties and your vintage stuff. You know, what do you think? Just kind of come in full circle here and wrapping it up again. Fanatics just starting to get their fingerprints on tops and, and how they do things. They just did a, a Dutch auction for Bowmans Sapphire.

SPEAKER 2: What do you think of, of maybe the direction they, they go? Is it, is it something you're leery of? I know you don't mince words and I appreciate that about you kinda where, where is your feelings with the current state of, of, of the hobby? Especially with the fanatics influence.

SPEAKER 5: I like the fact that they trying different things like, like Big League, how it was restructured this year.

SPEAKER 5: A as a tiered set kind of like what we had in the late nineties.

SPEAKER 5: But other brands like, like heritage, I'm not really impressed with this year.

SPEAKER 5: Well, like I said, this is really the first year of Tops of fanatics, Tops or Tops Na or some other, we need a new term for that banana, banana, banana tops.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I, I, I, I like, I like the, the big league. I saw, I, I didn't get to open any yet. It's very affordable at, 25 bucks, a box. And, and the car, what I like about it is the cards are different design than the, the tops, flagship. The other nice thing too, you know, I like the.

SPEAKER 5: Fact that they got finally got rid of opening day.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, that was, that was like Tops Light really? And no need for it. And then the other thing they did, Chris as you well know, too is they got rid of some brands, right? That, you know, brands like Tops Gallery and, and the like that were just unneeded and not necessary.

SPEAKER 5: Now, a lot of those brands, where they can, where they would come out would be later in the summer. So, like, I think Gypsy Queen is a brand that got the ax this year. Fire Gallery. There were a number of other ones. I, I, I forget. But, yeah, they, they, what are the point? What's the point of these products?

SPEAKER 5: That, that's what I have to say. I never got fire. I never got Gypsy Queen. I like, I like the old galleries of the nineties and two thousands. But, you know, the gallery that's come out the last five or six years is really, I, I, it's, I, I think there was nothing really special about it.

SPEAKER 2: Well, the other, the other problem with, about it aesthetically it wasn't, it wasn't tremendous and the price point was pretty high for a non a non meter moving product. But what I do like is that they're being proactive Chris, I think you agree that they're, they're looking at some of that, that stuff and saying we don't need this.

SPEAKER 2: This isn't not what the public wants, but like I've cautiously warned people, they are getting rid of some lines but you better make no mistake about it. They paid a lot of money to get this licensing for the next 20 years. There's gonna be new lines so you might not get the fuck fire in the gallery and, and, and, and opening day, but they're gonna be other things they replace those with.

SPEAKER 5: Is gonna have a sapphire chrome version.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: So there's still gonna be plenty of cards. There's still gonna be, the presses are gonna be rolling over time. So it's not like they're, they're, it's not like they're getting rid of these lines and not replacing them. There's gonna be stuff that steps in, in their place.

SPEAKER 2: And, and there will be just as much cards printed, if not more, most likely more. So it'll just be, I think the question will be what they, what, what they replace it with? Will it be better product and will it be accepted better, you know, more readily than some of those stale stale brands that they've now discontinued?

SPEAKER 2: I think that's, that's the million dollar question. And that's really gonna, I think that's gonna be the question that decides whether this company is a success in the next 20 years, like it's in the next 20 years is not gonna get answered in a 2 to 3 year span, but it's definitely gonna set the tone for what direction they go and whether they're gonna be, successful.

SPEAKER 2: So, we, we're, we're gonna see, you know, we, I'm more of a vintage guy now than I ever was, but I like to open some new stuff every once in a while. So, you, and, and just from being in content creation, obviously in, in the hobby hotline, we, we keep our, our finger on that, that post to, to what's going on.

SPEAKER 2: So it'll be interesting to see, you know, what they do with, with the, with the hobby going forward. And I, and I say that, like, you know, the hobby, like, they own it because they really, in a sense, own, you know, 65 75% market share.

SPEAKER 2: And so they are gonna be AAA power player here, whether we like it, whether we like it or not, that's just where we're at now, at the hobby.

SPEAKER 5: You know, and if you don't like what fanatics is giving giving you. There's plenty of other products from 10, 15, 20 years ago that are out there to collect.

SPEAKER 5: Like, I'm trying to collect like a lot of those early two thousands Fleer one-off products that came out like Fleer box score and splendid splinters and just thick card sets that kind of got passed over 20 years ago. I'm going back and trying to collect those. So there's going to be something to, to collect. I, I, I agree.

SPEAKER 2: You know, you hear people say I've said it right. A lot of the stuff I like has already been made. I don't have to worry about it coming out. It already exists. It's just a matter of, of finding it and, and finding it at the right. Right. That we, we want to buy that and, and acquiring it.

SPEAKER 2: So, like, it's a great point by you too. If you, if you're not happy with the status quo. Right. That doesn't mean you have to leave or you, you know, you can be disappointed but you can also go back and, and with the stuff that's already out there that, that, you know, tickles your Fancy, so to speak and, and, and dabble in that and there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER 2: And you can do both. Right. If you do like something new, you can do the new stuff and the old stuff. So, you know, you kind of, you're, you're the boss of your own, hobby direction and, and that's a great free market.

SPEAKER 5: That's how it works. You vote with your wallet.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. And, and sometimes I think the hobby doesn't realize the power they have with their wallets. Chris, I've, I've done columns and articles talking about that, that we have a lot more power and we don't, we don't use it, often, often enough.

SPEAKER 2: All right. Kind of coming down a couple, two last topics I want you to talk about, you know, Baseball Card pedia. That's your, your baby. I know you did it with I believe another gentleman for those that don't know.

SPEAKER 2: So, yep. Yep. So that Chris Squared, talk about what that is where people can, can go and, and, and, and see what you're doing.

SPEAKER 5: So basically it's an open source and, and it's not just a check listing site. I, I realize there are a lot of other check listing sites out there. I use them. They're good, but it's also a reference site.

SPEAKER 5: So if you go to baseball carded and look up and, and it, it's called Baseball Card Wikipedia because it's done in the Wikipedia format and engine, you can look up a set and yeah, you could get the checklist, you could see how many inserts, how many parallels, what, what, what the Game Jerseys are.

SPEAKER 5: But we also have more information about that set such as what are the odds of finding a specific insert app of a pack, the instant hit rates. How much do these products retail for when they first came out? How much, how many packs and how many cards in a pack do you get in a box and just some other, you know, loose trivia w when the product was released, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER 5: So, about 95 percent of the content on that website was written by me. So it's really a labor of love. Like we really don't make much money off of it. We have advertising on it, but that basically just goes to pay the server bill every month.

SPEAKER 5: I, I really want and, and, and, and the thing is, is that because this is a, a Wikipedia style site. If you find an error or if you want to add more to a, a certain set, you can edit it yourself. And yeah, share your knowledge with folks.

SPEAKER 5: The genesis of wi of baseball carded came, I guess around 2008, 2009. I when Beckett Media got sold from not when Dr Jim sold it to a prize when a prize sold it to the current enter trust. And one of the first things that they did was redefine the web was redo the website and it was a disaster. It was horrible. I don't know if you remember when Beckett redid their website.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, this was the time where they tried to set it up where if you wanted to broker a trade on their website, they wanted a cut of the action. So like a nickel per card or something.

SPEAKER 5: But it was, it went from a well designed website where you can find checklist information to just this, this bloated mess of a site that and it was obvious that people who knew nothing about cards designed this, they also be before the, the previous owners or also around is 2007, 2008, started a separate website called becket becket dot com and it was separate from Beckett Dot Com, but it was an open source reference website.

SPEAKER 5: It didn't run on the Wikimedia engine and it was on a really, really slow server. I think they might have just plugged this in into an old like 4 86 desktop that they had.

SPEAKER 5: And yeah, and I did a lot of contributions on that website and apparently they were going to, when a prize media is sold to the new group and redo redo the website, they were going to combine BECKET P with the new website. Well, that never happened. So my friend Chris in Ohio, and I, we got together and we decided, well, why don't we make our own site?

SPEAKER 5: It'll, it'll be a, a checklist and referencing site that's based on a familiar interface, the Wikimedia interface. And that was, I believe 2009 when we started and, we've been doing this ever since. And, yeah, it's only baseball we had, I think we had a hockey card. P, but that lasted for 20 minutes.

SPEAKER 5: Nobody else wanted to do it.

SPEAKER 5: But yeah, that, that's it.

SPEAKER 5: If anybody's interested in contributing to the product, you don't even have to ask me, you could sign up for an account and just edit to your heart's content. But make sure it's true information because I, I do cross check everything but that's, that's Wikipedia. I mean, Wikipedia baseball.

SPEAKER 2: Card P D.

SPEAKER 2: Well, good on you, Chris and, and Chris for, you know, seeing the need for it when someone else was sort of declining. It's, it's good on you too to, to leave it open source where people can contribute and keep it updated, keep it fresh, like you said, be accurate.

SPEAKER 2: If you're gonna post, if you're gonna put something on there, be accurate in, in, in your report. It's good to hear that you, kind of keep tabs and make sure no one gets too crazy with the cheese whiz there. And, as I like to say, and that's a great, it's a great resource. I've been on it.

SPEAKER 2: I've checked it out. I've, I've done stuff on it. I haven't added anything to it, but I've, I've gotten information from it and, I think it's a, a great resource and I think it shows your your dedication. You saw a Need, you saw an opening for fellow collectors that, that and use it.

SPEAKER 2: And so I, I urge everyone to, to check it out. Hey, listen, we're a couple of months from, from the National Chris. I know I'm, I, I usually see you there. I'm, I try to go every year just coming down to home. This will be our, our final topic. Just kinda your thoughts on, on the National this year.

SPEAKER 5: So this is going to be my 14th or 15th National. I've actually lost count.

SPEAKER 5: I did notice that they've opened up another wing to that convent to the Stevens Center for more tables. So it's gonna be a lot bigger than it was two years ago.

SPEAKER 5: I'm, I'm looking forward to it. I mean, this is, it, it's, it's like Baseball Card, Disneyland. I mean, I go at just about every year now. I, I, and, and for those of you out there that have never been to a National, you need to go at least once.

SPEAKER 5: I mean, you, you will, you will find things at the National that you never even knew existed and you never even knew that you wanted. I mean, even, even if you're not a card collector or a memorabilia guy, the National is like the largest sports traveling sports museum every year.

SPEAKER 5: Just go for the displays and see things like, like game worn jerseys from Babe Ruth and, and whatnot and, and, yeah, I mean, the, the, it, it's something that every collector needs to go to and, and I realize that it only rotates between the Midwest and the northeast and it doesn't go out to, out to the West Coast anymore.

SPEAKER 5: But you need to make the time for this and you need to do it right. You need to get a five day pass because you will not, it'll take you at least two days to see everything.

SPEAKER 2: So, yeah, great points and it's under new leadership. So maybe that West Coast thing may change here.

SPEAKER 5: I, I think that the new leadership is next year.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, they're, they're already at doing meetings and, and sort of setting the agenda for, for that transition to happen. So, you know, we might see some West Coast versions of the show, but great points by you, Chris.

SPEAKER 2: I, I think if you're, if you're, you know, you're in the hobby, you love the hobby, you definitely have to go. It's kind of the mecca this, it will be my believe, my fifth. I'm starting to get to the point where I'm not sure if it's four or five, I'm, I'm getting in that area where I'm losing track too.

SPEAKER 2: But, you know, I remember the first one and everyone telling me what it was like and it's like this, John, you're not gonna believe it. And even what people told me when I walked in to that building even more so than I was anticipating, even with all the hype and build up.

SPEAKER 2: I was getting from people who've been, it, it's something else and like you said, it's just the museum quality, right? You go to the heritage, booth and, and just some of the stuff from gay news jerseys and memorabilia. You know, it's funny seeing the, the well dressed, big guys with, you know, undercover weapons.

SPEAKER 2: And you, as you look at stuff and, you know, it's like, I always get a kick out of that, you know. And, but it's a, it's a great time. There's something for everybody. You, you get to see, all your friends again again. Some people you meet for the first time, at the National and, and it, it, it's, you know, like this show's tagline, right?

SPEAKER 2: The hobby is the people you get to meet all your hobby, people, you get to see your cards, buy your cards. And, you know, it, it's, it's fine to buy something online but there, there's nothing beats an in person transaction or conversation.

SPEAKER 2: Right. We're talking here, you know, on, on a video but nothing beats, talking, in person getting a card in person and, and that's something that'll never, you know, as someone who grew up before the Social Media age that we have now, I really do still enjoy it.

SPEAKER 5: And, I know you feel the same way and the best part of the National is what happens at night when the show floor is closed that all the, I, I, it's just getting together with your friends just going out, just stuff like that, maybe going to a ball game or if the Cubs or Socks are in town.

SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah, there's different events. I know. I know one year a lot of was in Chicago and people were going to that, like you said, even after the show doors close, the night's not over. Right. You can, like you said, we, we do a hobby, hotline dinner. A little shameless BG there.

SPEAKER 2: And we're, I just got news tonight that, we're gonna be on, the main stage like we usually are for how all, I don't have any dates or times yet. I've just gotten that, that we, we should get one in the, in the next couple of weeks. So, so that, that'll be good. That'll be fun. And, like you said, just doing all that stuff at the show after the show. It just, it's the quickest week.

SPEAKER 2: It's like it goes quick and you're already counting the days down to the next to the next National. So, Chris, I appreciate you playing hurt here and, and I, I, I know you're sick. I hope you feel better before before we wrap it up, give, you know, give out anything you want to share Social Media, the website for, for Baseball Card pedia and all that good stuff.

SPEAKER 5: The website for Baseball Card pedia is Baseball Card pedia dot com. Real simple. My personal website is Still Gum dot com. You can read some old blog posts from 10 or 15 years ago and that's where I have my want list. So make me a trade.

SPEAKER 5: You can follow me on Twitter at Still Gum, all one word S T A L E G O M.

SPEAKER 5: And I work for hobby news daily once a month. So yeah, that reminds me I need to get working on that.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. There you go. There you go. And you do an excellent job. So, Chris again, thanks for stepping up. Didn't hurt. You didn't cancel. Here you are, we made it.

SPEAKER 2: And again, I'll see you. I'll see you probably soon on, on Harvey is online but I'll let you. Ok. You can, you can give us the last line. I, I know you like to do it. Ok.

SPEAKER 5: So people want, I've been asked this as to what this catchphrase I do. I feel like I need a catchphrase there. There's this DJ in Vancouver named the Human Serv and his thing is interviewing like celebrities, rock stars, rappers when they come to town but he does this, the questions he asked are like just a, he, he, I don't know how this guy does his research, but he does a deep dive on these guys and he asks them questions.

SPEAKER 5: Like there's like a whole genre of YouTube videos of baffling rappers with his questions. They're like, how the hell did you know that? Anyway?

SPEAKER 5: It's great. He's a great interviewer, a very weird, unusual looking man. But, his catchphrase is keep on rockin in the free world and do, do, do, do, and then his subject is supposed to say do, do so. I won't, I won't do the do, do, do, do part but keep on rockin in the free world folks.

SPEAKER 2: Thanks Chris. We'll see you soon. All right. Glad to get Chris finally on. I like Chris. You know, one thing I appreciate about him, he doesn't mince words, right? You, you don't have to read between the lines. I appreciate that about people in general, right?

SPEAKER 2: That kind of, you know, they're not nasty but they just give you their honest opinion. And, Chris does that and, you know, he may be critical of things sometimes, but you cannot argue that Chris cares and loves about the hobby. He's been in the hobby a long time. You don't, you're not in the hobby that long without passion.

SPEAKER 2: It's really impossible. So, Chris has that passion. I'm appreciative of it. I've always gotten along with, with Chris and, look forward to seeing him here and, less than two months, in Chicago and we do a, a hobby hotline dinner, as well. So I look forward to, to seeing them on multiple occasions.

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SPEAKER 1: That's a wrap for this week. Huge thanks to you, the listeners out there because without you, there is no ice.

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SPEAKER 1: How do we change the world?

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