Ep.203 w/ Jeremy Lee of Sports Cards Live

10:18 PM
What is up, everybody episode 203 up sports card Nation, glad to be back in, glad to have someone back on today's show. That we had on, it's been almost two years. I believe calendar years, I was on episode 99, which I joke is apropos. We didn't really do that on purpose, it just worked out that way, and thought it was time for well, over Dude, to have them back 104, episodes later, and that's the sports cards lives, Jeremy Leah, glad to have him on the show. We talked about, you know, his new Ventures, including Ted grading and how his role and hobby career has changed for the better for him. We're going to talk about sort of current market and how you cook sorter can take advantage. While others are complaining, maybe about prices, it's a great opportunity to buy something. So we're going to, we're going to cover a lot of ground and 40 minutes band if you will, and that Lynn a little bit. 

A kind of a chest, cold type of deal. But as I always say to show must go on, we fight, we fight through it. We don't miss too many shows here at sports card Nation. So you know, if I do, I'm probably pretty sick. So what? We're going to keep plugging and glad to have Jeremy lie back on the program. So without further Ado, let's get this show started. This is sports cars Nation. 

Time for a hobby, is the people announcer of the week. 

Hey there. This is John Keating from That 70s card show with a friendly reminder. That the hobby is the people. If you'd like to be the hobbyist of people announcer of the week to have wires or MP3 file and send it soon Sports coordination PC at gmail.com. So in cases, are the best card cases in the hobby. One, quick walk around the national or even the local card. Show will bear that out, whether it's a case that protect One single Quail card or the holders, protect many of your practice cards. Look no further than the Zion cases and don't forget our backpack cases have no equal, check us out at www.sciencedenmark.com and remember to use promo, code SC and 10 to save an additional ten percent off your order. Zion cases. We protect the happened. 

Happy to have my next guest back on the sports. The sports car that Moco guests line. He was this is the second time on the show he was on episode 99 which were this gentleman seems a pro everyone kind of knows the number 99 is the most famous athlete that war that was Wayne Gretzky. It's been too long. If you do the math, this is episode 2 of 3. So something like, I don't know, too long, too long and time to have you back into sports cars, live. Collectible live tag grading. I probably left something off. Not on purpose, mr. Jeremy League. Hey thanks. Thanks for having me. John. I got to say your your, your intro video there is what was that ever a nice-looking video? And I say the same people go. 

That listen to the show regularly going to hear the same thing I said, I always tell the guests and then it's all downhill from there. So you know you've been in the hobby. As long as we're too similar age, we kind of got we have similar of backstories with when it comes to the Hobby we kind of talked about that. I'll episode 99 about four months ago you went full time in the hobby, I guess. First question. Jeremy, was that something like you was that the plan all along? Is that something that just sort of fell in your lap? Left. Yeah, so you're referring to tag grading and I joined tag joined tag, really the beginning of September. So now, I guess I can take you back quickly, just to tell the story in July of 2021. The company I worked for, I'm a CPA. The company I worked for was acquired by a bigger company and right away. I kind of felt like this wasn't gonna last for me, terribly long. And, you know, I would transition my way. Out. So I went to the National that year. So I saw you there. John, we had dinner together went to the National that year in Chicago and I took a couple of roll up banners. And I rented a table and chairs and I had it. I had a station for myself within my another friend of mines booth and I kind of went there thinking, I'm going to, I'm going to have this little station to meet people to network, but also to look for some opportunities because I could see myself transitioning out of my my current career and roll. So I did that. I met a lot of Of people to show. And there was one one point. I don't think it was probably on the Saturday. I was sitting at my, at my table, I had some people I was chatting with, and I saw this group of gentlemen, kind of waiting for me to free up and when I did, they came over and introduced themselves to me as being the founders of tag grading. And they showed me a presentation on their iPad and it was about a two-minute presentation and it blew me away with what I saw. Because up until that point, I did not think that automated or AI grading was was really 

This one could be a thing and they very quickly convince me that they were onto something. So again, that was the end of July, 20, 21 the next five or six months went by and I stayed in mild communication with them until February of this year. When they reached out to me and they said, hey, we are we are just about ready to reveal ourselves to the Hobby and we would like to do it on your podcast. I said all right, that sounds good by me. I need to learn more before. I'm going to kind of align my brand with yours and you know basically give my Movement. So I went to LA at the beginning of March to their facility right by LAX and I saw the office, I saw the technology, I saw their whole setup and there the way that everything was laid out for for optimal processing and I met the whole team. I met the, I met the person who is behind the architecture of the AI itself. I met the league greater, who is the one, who really, liaises with the architect of the eye. Make sure that the AI knows what it's doing. You can't just buy a computer at Best Buy and it's going to know how to create a card. It takes years to teach that computer how to do it. And that's what these these groups of people did both the architect and his team and the league greater and his team. And so, I met all these people spent a couple of days, really got to know them. Why should I got to know as much as you can over about a two day? Visit and then we decided to do the podcast, I agreed to do the podcast so we agreed to do it. A series of five of them and over the next. And from that was March, I think we did the first one middle of May. So it took a couple of months over those months and planning these five episodes, I got to know them, even better. And I got to know more about the technology. The slab that transparent grading, the grading report that the, and the reason why they went, they tried to do the reason why 10 years prior they set out to create this and I just realize, like this is exactly what I 

I'd like to be involved. I really like, what these guys are doing. I like the team and I like what? I like this whole concept of consistent, reproducible accurate grading that takes out the human subjectivity. So my, so again, my career my job as a CPA, I was still in it right up until July of this year. I basically lasted a year and on July 15 to 20, 20 to my term there came to an end and I was a free agent and I kind of at that point we had finished the episode. Odds and started talking to them about, hey, you know, maybe there's an opportunity for Or me and they were like, we'd love to have you and it took up until the very end of August of this year to basically shake hands and do the deal. And and here we are now beginning of where are we? The end of October. Yeah. How how much, how much, you know, it's any time you make a change, right? You you've been around a long time. I've been here, I don't care what profession or what we're talking about. There's always sort of a nervousness like What if it doesn't work or what? If I don't like it or, you know, all sorts of things can go through our minds. I mean, how how, how tough of a decision was or wasn't really kind of, it was pretty easy if John it was it was easy-peasy. Like I was so ready to get out of my my past career. And I was, I believe so much in what tag grading is doing and not just what they're doing, but in the team in the team, the expertise there. 

Just what they're trying to do. I believe in it so much that the decision was very easy, you know, becoming a part of the team, I invested some money into the equity of the company as well. So I'm not just, I'm not just an employee. Let's say I'm also I bought in, you know, because I believe in it and I think it just shows how much I believe in in the, in the company and what, what third, what we're doing. So the decision wasn't hard now, you know, moving forward, I I've also decided that I'm probably not going to pay my dues anymore. My professional dues like I don't really need to be a CPA anymore. I I want to be working with tag for the rest of my career and you know should that change abruptly for whatever reason? I'm okay with that. I think I'd be able to find something else in the hobby that I wish is where I'd like to because I love it so much and as, you know, John doing content as much as you do. And as much as I do, that keeps us pretty busy. And, and I've monetized my content. 

The point where it's done. Okay, for myself. And so I mean we'll see where the future. You never know what's in store in the future but I am I just believe in what we're doing so much that I think it's going to be. I think it's gonna be successful so I'm I've listen I'm probably 95% confident 5% nervous. Well listen you know your stuff. You're very familiar with the grading space. It's not your first rodeo time to take a quick break but we'll be right back after that with more. Which are mealy. Okay, everybody, have you heard about collectible, it's the one stop shop, where any collector can buy entry at affordable. Shearson some of the most rare and valuable sports cards and memorabilia in the world. Starting from just five dollars from 1952 Mickey Mantle, PSA, tens and Wilt Chamberlain's iconic rookie uniform to one of one Patrick Mahomes rpas rare LeBron, James logo man's and everything in between Collectibles, creating never-before-seen assets and opportunities for all. Let's go. The ha 

10:30 PM
Investment decisions should be undertaken after doing your own research. Glad to be back more with Jeremy Lena, big in it, at grating space. So kind of a two-pronged question here, right? It's, it's hard to really crack into it with what people consider the top three the top forward depending on who you talk to, you know what, what I'm going to let you kind of do sort of a convertible kind of speak to Ted what's what do they do that these other company that's going to stand out from these other existing companies that have been here a while. And I guess my piggy back question is, you know, you've made a lot of friendships with these other greeting card companies, you know are you worried? I can business. You can't really be worried about that but it isn't a concern like how your friendships will know. It is a, it is a competitive space. Are you where we'd like women with friendships? Yeah, that's a really astute question. It's an important question to. And you're right. I've made a lot of contacts from from Say to SGC to Beckett, I don't really, I've never interviewed or had anyone from SGC on my show. If I did would be Peter Steinberg. I think he's an exceptional young man and so, but what are we doing, different? Well, first of all, all of those four, major grading, human grading companies are human graders and and just by virtue of Being Human graders, there is subjectivity. There is there is bias whether it's conscious and overt or subconscious and 

Not overt, there is, there is subjectivity in it, and we just know that for a fact because there's inconsistency, there is inconsistency between grading companies and there's instance, consistency within each of these grading companies, they they just cannot grade the same car at the same grade every time at with any certainty. And that that's, that's fact. So what tag is doing is tag, is offer is putting out there. That listen, we are our system will Read the same will read one card, the same way a thousand times and give you that same grade A Thousand Times, there's no inconsistency. And so, we also grade on a 1,000 point scale and then we assign an industry standard equivalent. So we actually open up the grading scale to more precision, and I think that's really important. We have these sticker, these stickers in the hobby, the MBA, the peel BCCI appeal and I think these are helpful, but what tag does is it lets you 

No, right away. Is this a strong for the great nine? Is it? An average is a week because we have a range of you know, of we basically take what PSA has, you know, an eight and eight and a half and nine we have we have an 801 and 802 and 803 all the way up to 900. So we have 1000, we have 100 different points in there where they only have two or three so we're offering that. And that goes for all the all the human grading companies, in terms of their, their just Consistency in subjectivity and now listen, all that said, John I have a I have a comprehensive collection of cards, slab by PSA, mostly PSA, some Beckett think of one SGC Cardin 3, CS G card, something like that. And, you know, at TAG, we're not out to, we're not out to bash anybody. We're not out to recreate the grading. Standards were simply applying automation to existing, generally, accepted grading standards but You know, we're grateful to PSA and SGC in particular because they laid the foundation and then back it came around a little bit later. Not much later still in the 90s but we're grateful for these grading companies to really build the hobby into what it is today and to lay the foundation for creating. Now, what we're doing is, we're taking a step further, and we're applying again automation, no bias, no subjectivity objective grading and transparency. You know, you can scan the QR code on our slabs and it will take you to Say what we call the Dig report, the digital imaging grainy report. And this gives you all the metrics that the computer assess the cards condition gives you a list of all the defects that shows you where they are. You can click, it'll take you right to the card. It's our Digital Imaging. Greater reports are pretty amazing actually. There's too much information on them, to be honest but you don't have to look at it. All we also have eats upgrades instead of four. I've stopped believing in for subgrades. I don't think it makes sense to take a center. 

Grade and have one final grade for the front and the back. Because what's the front worth? Versus the back. How are you? How are you waiting these? However, you're doing, it is subjective. It's just based on an end, a standard or an opinion that you're coming up with. So we actually give you your Center and grade for the front centering for the back and then you can decide what's more important to you. And if you want to find a card with higher front centering them back centering and we're doing that across the board. Plus we give you the exact measurements of the car to the thousandth of an inch because, you know, you're looking for two and a half by three and a half inches. We give you that right on the report as well. One of the awesome features. Features. In addition to those things John is that our our label, our flip is transparent. There's no paper in our slap outside of the card. It's printed on the inside of the plastic itself. It's UV cured printed in white ink, they look really sharp. So the focus is on the card. There's no color match issues or Miss message. Mis-match. This use because the label doesn't go with the card. No different labels for any grade. We do have a pristine grade which just adds a nice little touch. 

The word pristine shows up. It doesn't change any colors or anything, so, you know, we say, transparent slabs transparent grades transparent process when we're set up at the hopefully will be set up the national next year. Grading on site. There won't be any black curtains hiding our process from the customers. We have nothing to hide. We want you to see your card be get graded. I think that's pretty cool. Actually should be quite the should be quite the thing there for people to watch especially for the first time. So that's kind of what with tags all. About and again, you know, when I compare the slab to the existing companies bark plastic is the clearest. There's there's that that's not an opinion. That's a scientific fact. I think that when you look at the four major human grading companies to me CSG with their new slab and label has the nicest slob going. I love the look and feel of it. It's very clear it just feels good in your hand but it's not as clear as tags. If you put them beside each other. You'll notice that the sea 

Keith lab has a bit of a blue tint to it. Ours is perfectly clear. Plastics, clarity as is measured on a scale of 1 to 60 or Crystal is a 60 tag slab is a 58. I don't know if the others are for sure but I'm certain that their lower because you can just tell by looking at them with your naked eye. So you know, I don't know where Beckett's and PSAs fall or see SGS, but we don't have a no black borders around. It's all about the card. Not about the slob. Yeah, I'm a sucker. I've said this on my show millions of times, I'm A sucker for acetate cards, just in general. And like that, clear aspect. So I've seen I've seen the slabs, I'm not going to lie that are sharp-looking time to hear from one of our great sponsors. What sports card Nation will be right back after their hats introduced in the only Auction House. Dedicated exclusively to the cards of the 1990s, Josh Adams, and John Linden of created an auction company. So only for the rare scarce and hard beside in certain parallels of the 1990s. When the 

Basketball baseball football. Team will consist of smaller, Lots between 100 and 120 watts? So you won't get lost in the shuffle. Founded on the principles of fairness, honesty and integrity was created by collectors for selecting, the register of consigned today at 90s auctions.com, that's 900 less options. Dot-com, let's go. You are listening to the sports card Nation Podcast. I was, I think you answered the question already Jeremy's going to ask you. He and transparent like the worrying about that great in that information may be fading or blurring or, you know, kind of almost like Inc spreading. But I take, you said, you kind of answered that with the de technology used to at you, inside that slit ads. It's UV UV, cured printing. I think there's, I think, it's actually 30 layers of ink that go onto it like that. I've seen the We have a big industrial printer to print the labels in the Slavs and it goes back and forth several times. I think it does 30 layers and that's you know I think the most that we could get before the top layer of the slab was going to now crush the ink. So but I mean I felt it. Even 30 layers is minuscule of ink. You can barely feel it with your finger like like a braille almost but you can feel it. And yeah that ink isn't going anywhere. Ever pretty an arc are slabs are actually 

I forget the exact term but like extreme UV. Section for the slab itself to protect your car that's in there. Yeah mention something I find pretty interesting. You mentioned maybe next year at the national actually grading out front where people can see the process and the graders. I mean I just just have my mind works. My goofy might sound like I can see like groupies and their favorite graders or the opposite. Right. So when they don't like and that they have going like someone at a sporting event. Like you stay like you know, I'm getting but you know that's a little bit added pressure, I think for greater, I'm putting myself, I'll go this side of sort of putting myself in their shoes. It's one thing to do it behind a curtain or behind closed doors, but to do it. And that the national no, last is not like, it's an office pool were 10, people come in and say, Hey, you know, keep in mind though, John it's not a greater, the greater is the computer, the computer does the grading. What we have humans involved, the humans are involved in in awe. 

10:40 PM
Capture machine that I mean, you know, you need you need to put the card into the digital into the image capture. You need to then move it over to be slabbed. You need to you need to, you need to operate the welder to slobby, to operate the printing machine to print the slab. So there are humans involved but there's no human grading going on. The machine captures, the data runs it through its multitude of algorithms and I can't speak to that technology but runs it through. I've seen It but I don't know that, I don't know the coding, you know, it runs it through the the algorithms and that spits out all of the data points, which are then rolled up in various through another set of algorithms and that to, to come up with a final grade for the card. So that's what people will be able to watch is the grading machine in action. All right, so my next guy got to ask this like has there been testing done where the same card was let's say, run 10 times just to see what the result were 10 times. 

And how how is that accuracy than that testing? Yeah I know another important question. So yeah we have we have run. I mean in this goes back, probably a two months. Now when I when I first heard the figure you know like a quarter million cards have been through the system. We know I've I've said you could run the same card through 1,000 times and you will get the same grade within 81 thousands. So 81 thousands if you think about that, you know whereas with Human grading companies, you can send the same card in and get three different grades on three different value. Get a six and seven and eight. That's a range of 200 1000 for 20%. We come in under 1 percent at eight. One thousand, that's kind of the consistency that we're trying to tighten that up to 4. Will we ever get all the way there? It might be tough just because of the card can change over time. You know, the quality of the air we have we have mechanisms. 

Zen place to make Aguila listen, I don't say never never, but I think it's a one in a million times that you'll get a slap back from tag. And there will be any foreign particles inside the slab and we see with other companies, all the you get hair in there all the time, there's dust, there's all sorts of things in there with tag, you will you will get maybe one in a million times. You'll see a foreign particle inside the slab. That's that's something very important to tag that you get a real clean item back but yeah You you will that the the same card has been test. You said ten times. I think I don't know the exact number, but just knowing our team, probably more like 100 or 200 times, all right? I appreciate hearing that, because that's going to be. I'm sure you've been asked that already. I'm not the first one. I was one of my first questions. Of course. That's a great. You know, you I wasn't going to, you know, leave Mike. Well I might have left my career anyway but I wasn't going to jump into into tag. Put my career my 

Career into tag invest my own money into tag and not be 95% certain that they were doing everything the right way. I mean, I just, I wouldn't have done that. I I love the hobby too much. I love my fellow hobbyist too much. I love my cards too much because I'm going to put my cards in tag slobs. I think they look the best new tag slabs, like trust the grading with tag way more than I do with any human Grading Company, that just comes from experience and again, not to slag on them, but they just they do the best that they can, but They just can't, they can't do any better, and that's just the limitations of the, this, the human limitation. And there's nothing, they can. There's nothing that can really be done about that. So that's why. You know, I've I'm as I say, I'm all in on tag because it's bringing to the table, something that has been a gap in the hobby for so long. Just that the fact that you can view can get a card graded and then decide you might want to try to get a bump. The whole fact that people try to get a bump tells you that there's no consistency. Everyone knows that. 

Also, like if you're going to pay to get your card great at the second time, what did you pay for the first time? Did you pay for the? Did you pay them to give you the a bad opinion, followed by a better opinion? So I mean it's like it just the whole resubmission game that people play. It's I think it's a really bad look on the hobby, for, for people who don't know the hobby looking and they're like, really, that's how it works. Like, yeah, well, that doesn't make any sense. You're like, actually, no, it doesn't yet there's thousands tens of thousands of us. On you and me included, who went along with it for so long? I'm fine. I'm just I just Going along with it anymore. No, I appreciate you Candace, candidness and your honesty, like you said, you put your own money behind this product. If you didn't believe in it, you're going to probably easily said, hey, I'll, I'll talk about it, but my cash is staying in, in my bank account time for a quick break plus, we'll be right back. Only 50 years, sports. Collectors digest has been the voice of the hobby. Bringing you comprehensive coverage of the sports, collectible industry from industry news auction results, market analysis, and in-depth, stories, about collectors, and their collections. Sports collectors digest, has everything you need to know about the hobby. SCD is also your leading source for listings of sports collectible dealers, card shops card shows in the latest of the industry's top companies. 

Check out all the latest news or if you subscribe to the Hobbies, oldest magazine, visit sports collectors, digest.com or call one eight hundred eight to nine 5561. Fourth card nation has returned Let's talk about you. Yeah, you know, you're no longer in the corporate field as far as in the county but you're kind of how you feel like I are you doing more traveling. Do you have more home time? Sort of like what compare before you made the switch to where you're at now. Yeah. No thanks for that changing the topic to to that. I appreciate John you know. Yeah so I'm based in Calgary still tag is based in Los Angeles and you know, while we talked about 

Me moving down there. I just really decided I couldn't uproot my family. I have two young kids. I couldn't really uproot my family moved to Southern California. So I decided and, you know, we agreed myself in tag that I would commit up to a third of my time basically, traveling and being in LA. And since we announced that was joining, which was while at the bourbon, that first day of the Burbank show, August, whatever, that was the end of August. I've been traveling a ton because I've been Been going to shows representing tag and I'm leaving in a couple days for Montreal and Toronto didn't in a couple weeks. I'll be there set up as a vendor, but I will also be representing tag at the at these shows. So I've been doing a ton of travel, but when I'm not traveling John, I'm at home and I get to work from home now, previously, I worked, you know, covid had its, you know, times where you weren't in the office but for my whole 25 or so your career is a as a finance professional, I was always working out. 

Office and I didn't have kids for the for most of that time. So I didn't really understand the the, you know, the sacrifices that people make leaving the house every day to go to work. And so now I'm home. I get, you know, it allows me to help my wife out of, she works from home as well so she has meetings. I had we have to juggle the office and so it allows me to help out or help out with the kids, take them to school, I can go pick them up. I can do all these things that I couldn't if I was out of the house, 5:52 every day at the office, so So for that, it's I have much better work-life balance and I'm working in the hobby, it doesn't feel like work, John just like doing content doesn't feel like we're just like, you know, I have 33 kind of pillars in my life right now that real that are all hobby or later, there's my job with tag. There's my content which takes up a lot of time and then there's managing my Personal Collection, to my personal inventory. That's a whole other kind of site hustle if you will. So I've the hobby is 

Is dominating my life right now. Outside of that, all I have is my well not all. I My Wife and Kids and and on Friday nights. I go play poker with my buddies in my one buddy's house, so that's that's my life. I'm not, that's your bad. Listen, I have a 22 year old son but he wasn't always 22. And, you know, they don't stay three four five for too long. And so if the fact that you get the support spend more time at dad age, even is I don't want to I'm sure I'm speaking for you but I'm sure you're counting your blessings that you get to do that. Like you said you I appreciate you saying, you know, you've been helping your wife being home, where your present, you know, at home and some people don't have that luxury. So the fact that you do and you are not taking it for granted and that's awesome to hear and happy for you, let me talk. Let's talk about shows you mentioned, a travel. We've seen 

Explosion of shows in all different parts. Of the country. I mean what do you got a personal opinion? I mean, what do you do? You think we can get to too many of these where it is over saturation? Are we there may be a ready or we potentially at risk for just the market or the hobby. Won't sustain that many you know, Big Time Shows. That's yeah. Yeah. Again man, you're full of the great questions tonight. You know, I think that, I think there's a couple things going on there. First of all, I've been sorry about that. I've been hearing about some cities are having three shows going on on the same day. I think that's not good. I think that I think that within within a single Market promoters need to kind of communicate and cooperate. That way at the end of the day, this is a, it's a capitalistic Society. This is, this is a business for a lot of people and if they want to put on a show, they're going to put on a show. So, but it would be nice, it would be optimal if they would communicate and try to just 

10:51 PM
Thing, second thing, you know, during the pandemic you have the Dallas show kind of rise up and become the second most talked-about hyped up. Show people are excited about and at that time, I think it was once every I don't know how often it was. I think it's once every two months. Now I've heard I think that might be too frequent at the end and, you know, in Q4 here of 2022, because I'm hearing just that, there's, there are too many shows and there's too much travel going on for people to stay on top of things. You know, you have to burn. A bank show spring up this year as well. They're going to be back again. In February, you've got culture Collision in Atlanta, Chantilly the national the Expo in Canada that I go to twice a year. I don't know. I mean, are there too many shows for some people, there are too many shows, but for the people that live in those areas where the shows are happening, that don't travel lucky for them that there's too many shows because they now get to go to shows, right? So I think what's going to happen John like, any competitive 

It's going to work itself out. The cream will rise to the top. Some will fall off the, it'll find its equilibrium. It's just we're not there yet and The Narrative of the hobby is in content and elsewhere that it's like, there's too many, it's got to be fixed. Well, that's just not how things progress. Things take time equilibrio. They work their way towards equilibrium. They will get there eventually, but the funny thing is and the challenging thing is that, you know, the the hot, the greater ha Hobby is cyclical and extend the volume goes up and down. And so even if we get to equilibrium by time were there, it might no longer be equilibrium. I might only be equilibrium for a week or two and then all of a sudden maybe we need more shows again who knows? So I think it's going to be moving Target. I don't I don't that's not it to me. It's not an important enough sort of topic to like gauge the the whether the hobby is in trouble or not. And 

Don't mean that shows aren't important. I just mean that you know, the more shows the more people are getting hey, the hobby or the people, right? That's your gospel. That's your Mantra, your tagline, it's, you know, so people physically being together in a place and and feeling that energy and doing those high-fives those those those fist pumps with each other and really sink. This is nice to see you John on my screen, but it's nicer to walk up to you and say, John what's going on? I'm, you know, one of those things, right? Right? So I love shows, I think, I think shows her where the hobby lives shows an LCS has caused her in there in there, you know, you're in person. So I don't know, man, a lot. It's a lot of words. I've given you, no real great answer other than it'll work itself out. No, I think you're right. I think the market will bear it out. Right? If people want to go to the show, will find a way to get their do get a plane ticket old. Tell Fitz travel if it's drivable, don't drive right in and so that will like you said that will bear itself out promoters, you know, have bills to pay. 

20 if they're doing shows and it's they're noticing like it's you know, during a different area like market-wise you know, that'll be a decision will have to determine that or maybe the maybe like you said even the frequency like maybe the like Dallas if Kyle feels like he's not getting the same attendance. Maybe goes every three months for four-year quarterly. You know that's that's for him to determine. So I think the market I think you made a great point that the market Bears, a lot of stuff out, right? Well, what people are willing to pay, even for four cards is what what the market is speak? You were listening to the sports card Nation Podcast. We'll be right back. After this break, iron sports card is your number one source. For all your PSA and other grading submissions, their Elite status improves, turnaround times. Heck they even provide the card Savers, their chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also want to wax options and single cards to cover, all the bases. Check them out on Facebook, at iron sports cars group, or on the web at iron sports cards.com, or even give them a call at 1-877-560-4440. Say, Rob's got you covered seen sort of a whatever you want to call it. A depth. Correction reset. I don't call it crashed at Your? Familiar with that word in the finance, you know, that's more sort of Doomsday that be. Like you said, the hobby is alive. And well, it's going to be here after both of us are not. And so, I actually like I've said on this show and I know, I think you feel the same way like it's a great opportunity to buy some stuff that previously was just Out Of Reach of your fingertips. Now you might be able to get it and you know, people who don't like prices come down. I don't want. I paint with a broad brush. Tend to peep tend to be people who don't plan on keeping anything for an extended period of time and not wrong with that, to each their own. But those are the ones that are probably the loudest complaints of prices coming down for me. That's done this final 39 years like, you know, we all want our cars to be worth as much as anyone that kind of says that's being dissed, but I don't mind it so much because I've bought some cards in the last few months. 

Prior will even search form because I knew where they were at. So you got to just take advantage of whatever, you know, the market is giving you your kind of piggybacking off that your thoughts on that top. So like you said, the hobby Will Will Survive. Both you? And I John, and like something that I've said, a few times, is that, as long as there are sports, there will be cards. And as long as there are people, there will be collectors. So the hobby is not In anywhere. It's not not, you know, the dip of 2022 isn't going to kill the hobby. It might only make it stronger because of it, because it'll make the people who lasts the businesses, who lasts the collectors investors, the flippers The Breakers. The LCS is everything. They will become more resilient because they will have been through a little bit of adversity up, you know, 20q to 2020 through really q1 this year. It was all, it was all roses and flowers and birds. 

Singing, right, ever? No one could make a mistake in the hobby for that period of time, but that's not a, just not a long-term reality. So, you know, when you just made the comment that you bought cards, now that you wouldn't even have searched for before. Well, you wouldn't have searched for them in 2002 2020 2021 2022. But you would have searched for them in twenty fourteen, fifteen sixteen Seventeen eighteen because they were that's the prices they were. So if you look at the, if you look at, you know, the index of the hobby, It was a very slow climb right through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s happened. Things started to go up and then we see this steep climb. We see if we see some climbs in the 2000s and 2010's, but we see a monster spike in twenty twenty one twenty 20/21 monster Spike and then it's come back down. But it hasn't yet gone down to where it was in March of 2020. It's still above that. So if you were to just 

Erase the pandemic and and flatten that curve, it's a very respectable increase over time that. Anybody would be happy with the reason why so many people are disgruntled is because it comes down to your entry point. You, if you bought cards in 2012, 20 21, 22, you are. It's likely that you're you're in the red, on them a little bit to a lot right now. Just depends what you bought and all that. But for you guys like you and me John, who have been buying cards are Whole lives. We didn't just start buying cards or even ramping up really our collections like it's like, take a cart. My Michael Jordan's rookie have a PSA night. I bought it in Chicago, in 2009 for $1000 PSA night. Okay, that card was trading up to, I think like 80 thousand dollars it peaked at and now it's down to. I saw one available are fifteen thousand dollars, okay? So my one thousand dollar investment called an investment. Even though the cards in my collection offers sale went up 

About 85 thousand dollars for a moment in time, in whatever 2021 and now it's down to 15,000 how bent out of shape. Should I beat that I lose 65,000 dollars? No, and I didn't lose it because I didn't sell the I didn't ever. I didn't lose money. Did I lose the opportunity to make an extra 65 Grand? Yeah. But do I care? No, because my car that I paid a thousand four is still worth fifteen thousand dollars. That's still a 15 x return, right? On my on my outlay, That's pretty darn. Good better than most Investments have been since 2008. So. You have to, you know, zoom out. Look at the overall. If you've been in the hobby, long time, you're feeling pretty good. Like, you and me are. And now we're like, okay. Now things are kind of fact, I can buy cards again now here in October twenty twenty two, that are only a little bit more than they were at the beginning of 2020. And that's a nice place to be. So we are in this this dip relative to the peak that we had. In q1 2021, if you wipe that that quarter out of the Out of the history of the hobby. It's it's a pretty respectable hobby. The curve is pretty respectable. No m