Ep.189 w/David Moody-Topps Original Vintage Card Art

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What is up? 

Got a great show today. You know, we talked about the history of cards and how important the past is to today's card game, if you will be history of today, right? And while the cards of yesteryear, may not be as shiny Chrome e. As we've gotten a custom food or no Jersey cards or even autograph cards, those cards really set the tone. In the past, set the tone for the players, we carry. The one of the things we don't talk enough about I think is the, you know, the card art. That was on the back of the cars in the late 50s, 60s and 70s. And you know, they told a lot about the player depicted on the front of the card. We can make an argument other than the picture, obviously. That's what we collect cards. Was the fronts. Is it really the most useful information was on the back right? Between stats and his little card are blurbs that gave us information like their Hobbies, their offseason jobs nicknames records, that whole things they did in high school. Who knows what? Right it shared, a lot of sort of personal information would goes, The card are and Oblivion and we sometimes forget about it will take you for granted for the gentlemen out today. Show it take it for granted and he has the largest collection of original tops. Carter on the planet, he was kind enough even the send me, you know, a One of the original Carter it sits on my desk. Now from the 78 football set, and it said just an important part of hobby history that frankly doesn't get hardly any attention if any at all. And so, This is, what are you doing? David listen to the show, you know, say I collect this my stuff's, you know, some of my collections been in the Hall of Fame, I can featured in the Hall of Fame magazine, and I think this would be, you know, John and do you care about the hobby? I know you care about this issue. I love to come out and talk about and talk about here. We are with that episode. So 

Very interesting little T's here. Be something that he says that I still can't believe it's still fun study to this day and it's true. And so 

Hobbies, the people announcer. 

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Real happy to talk to the next gentlemen, I have here on the sports burger shop that Moco gas line and he is probably the master collector of original cops are going to learn all about that. You know, you might hear that, they go kind of the stuff you're currently seeking, would you? Which is still our, we're talking about the original stuff. You saw that back in On the back of cards that taught us a lot about the players. We love my next guest, mr. David, our nation for years. If I go back, I know you go back a little bit longer than that. I got sports card Nation at Hobby, quick hit In my ears, I take walks. So you've been my companion on many walks around, Seattle. So thanks for having me on today. John exactly a super big. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me because I know you're getting ready for the national Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's always time for the Hobby and, you know, there's some new work collectors. If you will, this might be sort of Uncharted. For someone who, Starting in 79. I went back and started to collect cards from the 50s and 60s. So these card backs, you know, our old had to me, but important have to say the least and know, like, I've been talking to you after year. I've learned we learned a lot about these players. We learn more from the Carfax 

Along with those tidbits of information, I want to mention your lifelong resident of the state of Washington Union, currently in Seattle and you're married. Yet is three. And, you know, you reached out to me and said, hey, John, I want to talk about this. I don't think we talked about this enough and you're right. Go in knowing what it was. But is such an important part of the history of the hobby, not only for me personally, but for Many, many others as well. And it's also in for, and even if you're newer Collector, someone, that's not really aware of sort of the importance of this. This is why we are Our I always say that that bridge from back then analysis important. So while some newer folks will think card are and they'll think project 2020 or that exist and I think those artists A show. 

His themselves would tip their caps to the artist that sort of, sort of broken, you know, broke through broke that ice to allow Carter Such an important part of the Habib, your thoughts on just some of the what I sent there. Well I mean I completely agree. I have really enjoyed project 2020 and collected many of those with our Tucson's like you said we have three kids and our boys and I collected project 2020 and fact our oldest son wrote to Blake Jameson and receive a nice letter back and so I really appreciate the art that they're creating now. It's Exciting. We're talking about the artists and tops that were drawing the cartoons and the cartilage for the player. Specific cartoons, the trivia questions on the back. Regards going way back in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s. And you know I started looking at cards and buying cards when I was a I was really really young. I grew up. In the country outside the city limits of Olympia and I would walk about a block down the road to a place called go Harbor Mercantile where there was gas pumps you know groceries and beard Hardware 

And I was allowed to walk there. When I was young in love with baseball cards, 10 cents a pack, I started to collect those. But as a six-year-old, the cartoons on the back, where my favorite, I bought those packs, both football and baseball and the, you know, back then, ten cents a pack was doable, even as a six or seven year old. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And like you said, you know, you can watch a player. I'm a TV during the game. You can listen to the broadcast, you can figure out 

But the information on those card are back. This is what you get along with the art. Filling a lot of the blanks that the live broadcast didn't go. And I learned a lot of And we talked about baseball, the sanctity of the record book, right? You know, it's the one sport like most Baseball fans can tell you You what the treshold? Oh, they need screams. Yes, most career. 

The season is bad in a 2-1, the truth. How many players have 400? No die, hard and even not so DieHard Baseball fans. Those numbers are So, you know when for it and I learned about many of them through those, those Carfax along, with other things, you know, Would have the players Hobbies what they did in their spare time free time. Yeah we're talking about an error where the pay scales that will be known as today. So many of these guys had to have offseason job. 

Selling Insurance, you know, work, you know, owning a bony beholding, Ali, whatever the case may be, and you weren't going to get that stuff necessarily from a live broadcast. So it was so important up and obviously on the card back, she had along with that all the stats, that's the backs of the many cases became more valuable 

The attractive part of the bar because it represented a picture of the players. So, you know, when you when you reach out to me that, hey I like to talk about this just a little bit. Angelina. It's appointed in myself. David that like you heard what I said, was it right away. But as a little disappointed in myself, that it took you reaching out to me to realize the importance and why I didn't sort of delve into that out of my own. So it was sort of like the light bulb went on. 

But you know, the importance of that. Without that we would have a hobby like cops project 2020 project, 70 project 100 and whatever they're going to the next card art projects can fall be called. It's that original card. Are that sort of paved the way Jackie we talk about players, right, Jackie? Robinson's my guy, sort of paved the way breaking the color barrier. And so that we we had baseball immigration. Kind of the same thing would Carter 

Here over the last year in their shoe box, Treasures exhibit. So like you said, for the car collectors, from the 50s, and the 60s, and the 70s, and then the folks like yourself and open it for the first time in 79, and their way back, they remember the cartoon that appeared on the reverse side of the players car, some years didn't include cartoons, but Most years did all the way through the 70s, most of the 60s into the 50s. And unfortunately, those cars you picked up in 79, there weren't Cartier has that year. But for the most part in cartoons were regular feature on tops issues, baseball football, basketball hockey, and they appeared. As you said on the reverse side along with the stats, some years, the cartoon might feature a trivia question some years, the cartoon was players, 

Those players specific cartoons are the ones that are the most memorable. Like, Joe name is Jose. A very eligible bachelor with a woman, chasing him, you know, wearing short skirts. That's on the back of his 72 card. Lou, Brock 1974 who owns operates of flower shop and the offseason standing there in a baseball is a cartoon blue, but he's a baseball outfit holding a bouquet of flowers, so the artist and tops. Withdraw, these cartoons pencil pen and ink. The artist would use a Park Board, which is really stiff card stock, like an acid free card stock. Maybe, if you look at an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper, maybe four or five times that size. And then using a ruler with divide, the board in two separate spaces, the board itself stays intact, but creates different squares and there'd be a separate cartoon in each space, on the board, depending on the size of the 

Eight 10, 12 15 individual player cartoons with fit on the board. And so, for example, the more that included, the Lou Brock cartoon might be drawn on the same. Artboard is Al bumbry and, you know, Johnny Bench Larry Bowa, the artist finished the board. The board itself is the original card suit artwork would stay intact, but tops would take each individual cartoon, and photograph it from the board and then use that in the production of the car that matched, 

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Stored away in tops in some storage closet and luckily, they were well, preserved that stops original card. Are keys, are one of one cartoons that were used in the production of all these baseball cards and cartoons. And collectors have seen through the years millions and millions of cards, but only one of the original pieces of art for each. And, you know, even even myself who are, very familiar with those cartoons in the car guard? You don't realize they got that Edmonds, an artist had to produce that image like you said, they photographed it, we didn't, you know, at least I didn't think about what where is that. He's changing the game, we're not launching freeze bombing drives or hitting dingers, but we have built a unique Gathering Spot for all collectors to trade cards, talk sports, play games and watch their favorite athletes on the big screens. Yes, we partner with panini Upper Deck, Leif Topps, Fanatics, Pokemon, and others, to bring you all the latest in sealed wax and singles but the sports card shop in New Buffalo, Michigan is much much more. Our recent expansion brings Sneakers, Hot Wheels and more sports and entertainment memorabilia into the mix, our new collectors cave. A perfect place to throw a brick party. Um, Street cards, play Billiards, ping-pong shuffleboard, classic arcade and Xbox games. All while watching your favorite sport on TV. Visit us at the sports card. Shop.com follow us on social at underscore sports card shop or better yet. Visit us in person to learn about special events, party packages, new products, and everything we're doing for you. The sports card shop, Connecting People Sports and the hobby around the world. Welcome back to school starvation. So I guess my question is, when did you first know how did it come about? We said, hey these, these pieces exist. How do I start getting them? You hurt your knee? Pick up. Well. You know as a collector as a little boy. I love these cartoons. I love baseball football cards, especially I love the cartoons, on the back, kind of forgot about it. So I'm in college and I go to a car show in summer fall of 1989. That's a really important year. For this car guard because it was a month after what's probably the biggest auction in the history of our hobby. Took place in New York City in August of 1989. I can talk about that here in a bit. Yes, the tops auction run by currencies auction house. I don't know that happen. So the next month I'm at this car show in Seattle, my friend and you know it's a summer fall of 89. 9 Ken, Griffey jr. Rookie cards or really, whatever ones after, you know, people like yourself, you're buying a break Jeffries rookie cards. But I see this incredible item. I see a full sheet of nine, original cartoons, from the 69 baseball set and I just have to have it. I bought the full sheet was the only one there, I bought it for 65 dollars which is a lot of money to me at the time and this 

A warm you talk about people who go to shows and they have tables and obviously people these incredibly warm and knowledgeable. People a couple more full of stories about a tops auction in New York City there. Talked about it like, you know, it's like the Land of Oz that they had just attended and it turns out that this tops auction is one of the most legendary auctions. In the history of our Hobby. And that's where they picked up this pace. So I buy it. It's my favorite piece in my collection, even about my cards. I just, I love this original art and I went then and I got the 69 cards that would, you know, the cartoons match the card. I picked up a baseball card, sure enough. The cartoon on the back matches, the original cartoon of 

I kept it for years and I started to do some research on what was this auction in 1989 and you were living in Brooklyn. Maybe in 1889 189 is so I had come to Syracuse then so I was in high school here when I graduated high school which is an IED actually went back to Brooklyn. So I was actually It's just for a few High School. 

Well, I wish we would have been at this auction together and 89 because it was incredible, it was held at, you know, I'm not. I'm from Seattle. I'm not real familiar with New York City was held in a vehicle, the Hunter College sports and blacks in. August of 1989, it lasted three days and top Soul, contracts between the tops and star players the mantle on track the maze contract. This is an item that is unbelievable. They sold your way. The 1953 top starts, the original oil paintings, including mantle and Maize and your favorite Jackie. I have the price realize sheet for that but the mantle even back in 89, what's a hundred? Twenty one thousand dollars, Jackie went 471 G anyway. But in addition to that, they sold this tops original card are the full are All these cartoons containing the, you know, the original What It Wants on just baseball bat football, basketball and hockey to not every year plugs. Kept a few in its storage shed which they then roll out about 13 years later but much of this artwork was sold at the groom sees the your Toms auction in August of 1989. That's where the board came from but I'd want from that. Nice couple and see. 

I go to school, I go to my one and only piece of artwork means no 2002 when Tom starts to sell the rest of these through eBay and a thing, they call the cops fault. Now, do you take? I mean, I can't say with certainty but you think they help this stuff back? Kind of know when it might be. Mike, Garner more attention more. Money, some more financial game years later than in 1989. Or you think it was just like this auction and they just don't have time to scoop up a few years of card art. Yeah, you know, I I don't think there was a method to their Madness. I don't think they were trying to maximize profits later, I think maybe Looked in the right closet, the stuff they sold in 2002 and 2003, they probably would have sold an 89. I'm glad they didn't, they had a fairly large grouping of full-size artboards. There were still being stored in tops and in 2002 and free, top sold the rest of it, all of it, through eBay through this place, to all the tops fault. And that's when I start, I saw I started to inquire And it included the 72 and 74. And 75, baseball 74, and 78, football. Many, many full size sheets. So up until that time, I just had the one sheet that I purchased in 89 of that. 1969 card are then the tops of fault card or came. And there was first. It didn't seem like that, many people were really watching this stuff and then bidding war starting starting to really, really rare. 

So we're sort of, you know, your little secret at first and then more people started coming over there. So those prices started Maybe Moore's. Well, they started to increase so much John that after the tops auction in 1989, although these were sold in the full-size boards with the many cartoons on each board, and people would start to cut them up to maximize profits. The full-size boards are the Holy Grail of and people started to cut them because it was more profitable to say. 

On the auction and 2002 and 2003. The boards were going through a lot more at the very end with their last boards, which the 70s for football. They started cutting them up and individuals, 74, and 78. I was able to obtain several full-size boards and then they started chopping them up in an individual's weirdos out there obviously like anything, right. The full sheets are going to carry more. A premium price because they're intact rather than 99 or 12 individual pieces which are still cool. You know, you were gracious enough to donate one. That is on my desk here from football and I love it it but you know, like you said, the full sheets are the grill. Because people saw dollar signs and started to try to make individual, you know, make something of 9 or 12 and 29 different options, 12, different auction nine, different sales, instead of one. Yeah. Depending on the star power of the player that was probably working but, you know, even though singles, I would still try, I would still fit on Singles, they're still on at once, there's only one of each. Sighs manner, that it was created. By those artists time to hear from one of our great sponsors foot. Sports car Nation will be right back after that. Iron Sports guard is your number one source for all your PSA and other grading submissions. Complete status improves turnaround time. Heck, they even provide the card Savers, their chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also offer wax options and single cards to cover, all the bases. Check them out on Facebook at iron sports cards. Great for on the web at iron sports gardens.com, or even give them a call at 1-877-457-7309 Ron's got you covered. Listening to the sports card Nation. So you've got probably the greatest original card or collection like how many once I'm going to ask you how much do you How do you answer that? Because I am not sure. I know exactly how 

All comments, but the same. It's wonderful. How do you how do you store your collection? Well, the artboards themselves that these were created on our acid free. They hold up really well the pen and ink drawings. Look like they were just done yesterday. They look really nice. I keep them out of the light and I stored most of these in a bank vault by you know I do pull them out from time to time when I'm looking something up or join them with the kids. 

It doesn't contain that that sort of, Quality of player. Do you have one board in your mind? That sort of stands out above all the rest or to you have so many? It's hard, you know, one hard to pick, just one. The interesting thing about this John is that, you know, there's no registry here. There's no, there's no way to know where those boards and the 89 auction went and how many hands they pass through by now or if they 

Destroyed to be, that's 33 years ago. Now, a lot of good stuff. Quality boards were sold then, so it's not like, you know, I can say, okay, I have one board and this is just certain just happenstance. I've got the 1975 full size. 

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Both the rookie Brett and the rookie out on the same board. That's fortuitous. Yeah, artist putting those two of all players from that set that you know, the best cards from have said on that same board. Yeah. Now when you acquire these are you just like hey I want to get as much of this as I can because I don't think a lot of this exist anymore. Are you having is It impossible to thank like I have the whole set, you know, whether it has individual panel. Yeah. I mean there's a whole set of cartoons for a year because they're just battled their needles in a haystack. Once you need to having 80 to 100 cartoons from a year as a lot because they've all been scattered to the winds. You know, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack but you know, there might not even be a 

Who knows, luckily I think tops and saved all its 78 football card, our until 2003 and they started selling. And you have that piece right there back at you, yes, from that 78. I have almost that entire set of card arts and 78 football. That's probably the year I have the most the highest we've set up, but you're never going to have a complete set. Yeah, yeah I mean that's That's what I figured I had to ask. I thought maybe I'd get my surprise baseball while you're, you know, you mentioned the football. You, you probably have a good percentage in 78, which baseball year? Do you have the highest percentage of don't know that answer off the top of my head? I have a lot of 72. Those are trivia questions. I have spoken. A lot of 74 75. I have a good deal of 65 and 67. 69, you know, you go back, there's always, you know, thrilled to get a board with a Hall of Famer on it but I have to say it's becoming very very difficult to find full-size boards and although the materials acid-free I've seen Ford's for sale over the years that you know, they're definitely have been you know the water logs of your warped with water damage smoke damage. 

And those are, those are his nice. So Ima put you on the spot. I actually just who out, I was listening to you and I have a Gretzky's rookie behind me which is 79. And I thought there was, I wanted to, at least verify before I said something and been in there and accurate. Here is a, a cartoon, are the Gretzky's rookie saying? How he's one of the most terribly prospects. Yes, in hockey history. 

It's amazing that you asked me that question because I know a little bit about this first. Okay, first off, I do not know, but I know who does and I know what that person was offering it for on eBay for a number of years. And I should say never getting this price. Yeah, it was cut, it was cut from a sheet and I think the Boehner cut it because I bought some stuff for him. 

Well Bobby's the people I won't say anything - but he was cutting up boards and Gretzky's one of the cartoons he cut and he was trying to sell down for 25,000 dollars, just that cartoon. Yeah. And but he would take it off and then the next time I see it on eBay to be for 50,000 and then 25 and I don't know what he was doing. I haven't seen it on eBay for a couple years so either he found I'm a buyer or he just took it off but that would be a very, very, very expensive cartoon. Yeah, I would think it would like you said, it would be nice. Yeah, I had it been part of the original sheet up. I think you you know like you pointed out it probably cost himself. Some dollar signs rather just sell it. As that's right. One big board with a Gretzky's rookie card he just sort of Saw dollar signs. It says, but after, you know, when you did Moment, he thinking always along those I get thinking, hey, I'll just I'll get ready these 8 or 11 other guys. No one cares about and just focus on this. It went instead of saying, listen, you're paying for the Gretzky and you're getting a before, eleven other ones, free a beautiful board with all this original art on it and all the brush Strokes, it's 

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You know, you mentioned, you can barter your collection. Is that the shoe shoe box treasure in Cooperstown, New York at the Baseball Hall of Fame. Not too far from me. How did that all sore? Thumb without 

It was a brand new exhibit at the time that the Hall of Fame and put a lot of time and energy into and featured the history of the baseball card, but there was no focus on artwork or the cartoons. I was hoping to be a little mention of that beast. And so I inquired and was told that they didn't find any card art or Originals that were suitable. And so I told him I was happy to share my collection and they were so gracious. John 

They were just so they were kind of they were tickled and they were easy to work with and it took a while for them to decide the dimensions, they wanted which thesis they wanted, but they displayed three of my full-size, artboards from one from 67 out of Maison. It one from 69, and one from 1974 and I kept telling them, well, you know, you might want this one or that one I thought, you know, the more star Power, the better, they did take the maze, but they said, you know, we do a lot, you know, it's the Hall of Fame. We have a lot of Hall of Famers here. We want to show the car Guard from the regular players, you know, the commons to. Yeah, the 69 board. I think the biggest star that's Joe Torre, and I think that's 74, was that board 

But we just played three full-size boards Incorporated those into the shoebox Treasures exhibit. And those are on display from the spring of 2002 until recently suspended, for about 12, to 14 months. And then I just received them back. They were shipped back to my house too long ago, but like I said, they were incredibly gracious and it was, you know, it was a real thrill about those pieces and all Yeah, and also you were featured in the Halls monthly magazine members and creams, if I think so, now I gotta ask. 

He's a Guard art from 1970 to baseball and they Then they weren't allowed to receive gifts and so it's in the Halls collection now. So they just it's part of the Hall of Fame but no, I personally didn't get anything but, you know, great deal of satisfaction out of having fun there. Yeah, no, no, it's ready. Yeah, I'm politicking for like anyone that donates whether it be in your case, this original card are or other cases memorabilia, I think whoever does was nice enough to do that. When I say donate for displays and you still running but anyone that's willing even to do that, like you should get like a lifetime pants. 

Even in the the current art we're talking about project 2020s. And we know who the artists are, we know which items are, you know, which pieces are. There's and I asked you like who are the artist that did this, the original card art? It was surprised by your answer, you said, I don't know. And quite frankly, no one does and I brought you a sort of kid and you were like, no, no one. We do not know. No one's ever like a day. And I was like shocked. When you think about no families telling stories or hey, what are you working on mom or dad? Oh, I'm doing a cartoon art or, you know, cops the date, you know, the sports birds, like none of those stories lasted or were retold. Like we go, we don't know. Not one of these artists, whether they're male female, if they're still alive, if he's very old at this point, but 

The fact that not even a relative or friend somebody, you know, even though you talk now at you you even smoked into native South Side. Burgers said it, you know who and who are these folks? Hey, basically didn't have a identity and like so I just think about that like what, you know, I said this about it, you know, we know, we know artists from the 1400. 116 hundreds. And yet. Here is something done in. I don't see modern day but the not that far back and yet no one knows who these artists. I guess my question was about, how was that possible? I'm just seems insane to me, but I'll let you speak of that as the preeminent collector of these pieces. 

The fact that it bothers you is exactly how I was feeling. It bothered me so much. These are such great pieces of grow up with the cartoons. You see them, I want to know who these artists were. I wanted to contact them and ask questions, you know, who are they? What was their process? Why didn't they take their art with them? How much were they? They produce these cartoons so in 2003 as the tops called was dwindling down and that last card are was being chopped up by tops and self and soul part it out his Originals. I decided to just pick up the phone and call top. So I got a hold of me with today's phone trees. 

I was able to sit at my desk, and Seattle, Washington and call Tops, and actually speak to a live voice. And I remember that I was passed along to a couple people before. I got to someone who said, you know, why don't we just put PSI on the line? He knows everything and it was side Burger. Yep. Beside Burger was like insulting office adopts opening mail or something inside, out of the line. 

He was at least, 50 years old. He spoke to me for a really long time. He was such a kind, man, and we got to the topic of the 1989 tops auction in New York City, and he knew all about the cartoons, and I said, mr. Burger, I'd really like to know these artists are and how I could contact them if you have any information and he just laughed at me. And he said, those guys are long gone and I, that's all, that's all I got from him. I imagine John John if he avoiding cartoon 50s and I'm out and leaving the boards with tops would then take the photographs and mask, the cartoon to the player. Produce the guards and then the boards just witnessed in the storage closet but side. Ya know the names of the artists yeah it's still even you know I know we've had molten at multiple conversations in this particular 22 no question and I'm still like it's still shocking to me like to take, you know, my dad is an amateur's what he used to do like Disney stuff in the house. I'm not on his like drawing board and check out what he's doing and he say, 

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I even went in its early stages before he could tell what was what it was going to turn into, I just can't just shocking to me that son or daughter, didn't check out what a parent was doing order to Bear it and say, hey, what do you think of this? We're even getting opinion like you. 

You know, get this two tops, it's gonna go in the back of a baseball football, basketball, or hockey. Can you know that? Somebody didn't know, hey, my uncle did that. I remember him showing them to me. What my friend did some of those? You talked about it like you don't stories live on through. Yes. Selling it to other people. That's that's how many the stories live on. And yet here we are talking about something that happened. 50 60 s and 70s the meat while it's not recent, it's not the Ice Age. These are people so let's say an artist was drawing 74. Baseball. It's clear from the art, I have. It was the same artist in 74. That was drawing. All the baseball cartoons, same artist for all the football cartoons. Same artists for all the hockey and basketball cartoons. This person was producing well over 1,000. 

Cartoons that one year. Now, you could go to the next year and it's a different artist. You can tell it's a different artist. It's just yeah, it looks different, but then that artist did everything for that particular issue of I picture. This person, whoever these artists were at a big drafting board at tops with these are these are game, you see, See, the brush Strokes on the side where they're dabbing out their pain, because they put it in pencil and then they've sketch it a little more detail and then they finally go over it and eat. That's the final product. That's the original you're right. And yet, maybe this is a side job for some be there, picking up some extra money and maybe this isn't their main job, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, we don't even know how many different artists there even was, was in five. 

You know what? It's one of the great mysteries of of hobby history if you will. Yes. And it's just a great period. You were listening to those sports card Nation Podcast. We'll be right back after this break. 

Any sort of insight to how many there were, even when we while you might not know the name, he didn't give any specifics at all. He gave no specifics. And you know why I thought sigh above anybody would know, is because, remember, I told you about those the paintings player paintings for the 53 cards. Yeah, it sold for some awesome in their beautiful their iconic. We can help fix up to 53 cards in our mind. Sighs. I bought other than those Superstars. I just mentioned. He bought all the rest. It's called the site Burger collection. Yeah. When he was about ready to pass I think he passed away in 2014 an auction house sold the Cyber turquoise with all that original art from 53 dogs and so he obviously had a love. Now those are paintings. Those are different than the cartoons but he had a love for this. They meant a lot to put it yet. Those guys are long gone as he liked. Don't even know who wanted. Hopefully, someone listening to your show. Has a clue and we concealing all joke at all. Seriousness, if for some reason someone's listening to this podcast, we have a lot of listeners and you have a friend or family member, you think they were involved in some of these, you know, reach out. I'll have you give up your email here. At Deva where they can probably you better to contact me. I'm you know, if I get I'm just going to basically be the middleman. Sure forward it to you anyway. But man, I do, you know, I'm not credit where credit's, due kind of guy even if they're not here alive anymore, you know, it's still still want to acknowledge who did. Is it is a kid. 

And started to collect these other card. I learned so much from these words more so than than even the stats. And, you know what, I, what I work with the guys at the hall of fame, on the shoebox treasures and my pieces, this question came up. I asked them if they're, you know, they have they have a lot of resources ways to, you know, go back into the archives and find things out. They came up dry on. Artist is I got one more question pertaining and you think this is and I don't think so myself. But I got to ask the question anyway. You think you think these were outside? Like you mentioned contracted artist to do. We think there's any way maybe this was people that were already employed by tops. I had sort of an artist background or enough to produce these words that have just. It was, they were just already working at tops and they were just like, hey we need we need card art in 

Blurbs for these particular place or you think they were all outside the company hired seven? Yeah, there's no way for me to know I in my mind. Somebody was hired whether there was a tops employee or somebody just contracted to do this for a few bucks, for a cartoon or a few bucks for a whiteboard. I don't know. But, you know, who knows? The tops budget was God. Because who knows? It was just a thought of as filler space on the back of their product. I don't know those old enough to remember the Robert Stack host the show, Unsolved Mysteries and the music. I'm seeing that would Roberts that kind of walks in the screen and says, we don't tonight. Who did it? You know, something like that. It's just amazing. We don't know one of these folks, and any of them and it's crazy. We know so much stuff from history from people telling the story from one generation passing that information down to the next. And yet here we are talking about, you know, less really less than 100 less than And and nothing. And it's weird to think about that more dick about it. The more like I'm shocked by that. That's really where we are. And I think that creates some mistake even more Mystique about it is, you know, I want to thank you for, for shedding some light on it, for preserving this stuff, like you said, so much of it. 

You know, got sold out damaged destroyed, who knows, if you think there's a lot out of these coming down, the homestretch here? Did you think there's some may be yet to be even be discovered, maybe in an attic and five summers ago? Five or six boards through eBay, some guy just found it Uncle's estate. He didn't even know that would be listed up. I called him. We worked out a deal. I mean, yeah, this stuff's out there. I think probably a bunch of gone into a landfill been destroyed and forgotten about. There may be some people that have a framed piece or to get a card room or special place in their house. It's hard to say. It makes me wonder to is that how we're going to find out one of the artists, right? You're going to, it's going to be discovered. 

Hey that's my grandma's stop you know maybe the only way she'd have that is she had to draw the, she didn't buy it, you know what I mean? All right. You know what I mean? And I'm just I'm just a scenarios that is that how we learn at least who Maybe He murders. This is it is discovered in some personal belongings of someone who maybe he's no longer with us and that's how we determine like. They they had to have worked on the project. But why, why would they have they have that in their possession? I hope so. I hope there is a photograph or there's an artboard that someone took with on or something. But talk the not seems to have you know, scooped all these up and throw them in a storage closet for many, many years. See themselves. It's almost like a storage still, you know, waiting to be told out, are you active and trying to acquire more? Well, I mean, where are you at? Is Robert as your collection, are you are using something, you're always on the lookout for whether it be in person or you know, on an auction and auction houses eBay. I'm on the lookout 

We're so waterlogged and damage that I just wasn't interested. It's, it's like that for the not lately. I think, you know, these are, these are hard. These are hard things to locate at this point. Yeah. Well, again, I know I said it already. Thank you. You, you gave me one piece that I'll always cherish thank you for bringing attention to these incredible. You know, not just works of art, you know, an incredible part of the hot part of the hobby. A part of the, how the history, you know. It's like I said, I was a kid, I learned so much from these pieces of art with the blurs, right? I learned these offseason jobs nicknames, you know, family situations. All that's all that's to other sports. That these folks played besides sport. I new one in and you learn so much from. You know what? 10, 15, 20 words, Word of where would where the character and it's so important to stay in as a kid, kept me, interested in the Hobby in the cards and to belittle and say that wasn't important on my habit. Jersey Journey would be disingenuous and I'm glad there's enough even if it's mostly you enough people out there that cares enough to 

Keep it so that it all doesn't go by the wayside. And I think it's a great part of hobby history. Like you said, these are true. You know, we talked about 10 ones, right on the Hobby and there's, you know, it's Mark 101 but there's, you know, for variations. So there's really in a sense for one or ones or four cards. These are truly one of one thing. Like you said, cops photographed, or however, they captured the work and then produce the on the card