Ep.188 w/Dr.James Beckett: NSCC Retrospective..Looking back

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What is up. Welcome to episode 188, you know, as we move closer to the National right, lot of national heavy, Content and all the shows and I'm sure. But this one included, that's what you get this time of year, quite frankly. So, if you're a fan of those, that type of content, you know, I understand, you know, comes with the territory but today, we are going to talk about the national. But we're going to talk about, you know, some of the early Nationals, you know. And I thought, you know, we all kind of know if You've been to the National and recent years, you know, we kind of know, the format that they are now. But what were they like? No. What was the first one? Like what were the early ones? Like what was the thought process behind? You know, the launching, you know, how did things run that sort of thing? And so when I wanted to do this retrospective of the national I submit I want to have someone on then went to show that then you know that 

Speak directly about it because they were there and the gentleman on that side Today. Show those been on the show multiple times before but he's also been to every single National that has occurred. And so he came right to the front of my list that reached out to him so that loved it loved to do it. And so dr. James back at, is our guest today and we're going to, you know, Delve into some of those early Nationals and he's going to share some personal stories and experiences. Can it tell you who was behind the success of them, why they were successful? And you know what, to talk a little bit about the current ones, but it's going to be really focused on, you know, where the Nashville started out, you know, where it came from, you know, to get where we are today. And I tell you what, 

Conversating with it was super interesting and a great conversation and obviously not attending any of those. It was very, very interesting to me and I think you'll you'll find it interesting as well. So with that being said, let's get this show started. Time for a hobby. Is the people announcer. Everybody got Nation DC at gmail.com. 

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Real happy that my next guest on these boards torch up that Moco guess like new to the show and I'm happy and proud to call them a friend. That's none. Other than dr. James Beckett. Welcome dr. Jim great to be here. John, always a pleasure. So, you know, this is guilty of this myself. You're guilty of it and it's a good kind of guilty, right. We're almost in the single digits away from the national. So a lot of heavy National content leading up to what Call the Super Bowl and I be so weak, everyone circles on their calendar, every year and looks forward to an anticipation and for as long as I've been in the hobby. You know, people sometimes think I've been to allow the national my first one was actually 2018 so I know it more and what the current form we know with. Now the first one obviously 1980 in Los Angeles at the Marriott airport and obviously a lot different than the The current national reform, we know what. And so I never hear a lot of show because it's not many shows can probably talk about a retrospective wouldn't National cuz they can't touch on it because they don't have any experience. It, you're the one guy who I've said before, you've attended every single one have not this one. So who better to talk about some of those early days of the national than someone that's never ever missed one. 

For more fashion. So I wanted to sort of look back and as a rule called as a retrospective of the national. So you know, starting with that, that first one dr. Jim 1980s. Los Angeles. Where did it come from? What were the are early? Thoughts of the hobby at the time of something like this? You know what, what you can you fill us in? From Well first of all, you mentioned feeling guilty. And the only guilt that I feel is activity that I feel so happy go to the National and I have so much fun and you're at least bringing your your wife this time to. Yeah vacay alongside but and I did that some of the times over the years but you know it just is just a great getaway. And it's it's gotten better over the years in the beginning like you say, 1980 was more the Reception, it was intended to be a national, but it still felt like a really big Regional show. Even though they were National dealers, there, it didn't look different, you know, it look like a real Big Show, real successful show and you walked around. You see why these guys are from the East Coast, these guys from Midwest. So what, like, a Los Angeles show but you could I remember, you could you walked in and seems like there was kind of like walked in. And then there was like a step down to the 

To the show floor, it wasn't that big. I mean it was thousands of square feet but not hundreds of thousands of square feet and so you could see the rows of tables. There wasn't a lot of action up in the air, they're mainly six-foot tables that were at even, not even a lot of showcases, you know. And and when people left their table they put a sheet on it. They did, they didn't zip it up. And so it was very old-fashioned, very old-school and very trusting but that's that's the way it was. And it, It's that frankly John it stayed that way for ten years. Yeah, just probably cable is approximately. What do you say this in the early, the first water leaves 160 that that first year? And then I think I got up in a 200, 250, maybe, 300. And then like I said, as you got closer to 91 the 91 Anaheim National was a turning point because that was way bigger, way bigger crowd, lot more corporate support. And it was A completely different animal. And that maybe you spend the most successful one ever, although, Chicago last year, was was pretty close. And this year, I'm hoping that this year is going to be really outstanding getting back to the east coast as well. Yeah, that first job just kind of, you know, you know, you know you know when something's big you always tend to and you never been to the first one, you want to look kind of compare where it was and where it was. Now, how many days do you remember that the first show in law? How long was it? Bringing more than Friday, Saturday Sunday, but, you know, maybe there was some thirsty stuff and then later on, As you move along, they did some more things. So they had to have some time to work in the, the softball game or some of the seminar. So it kind of expanded to now it's sort of Tuesday or Wednesday through Sunday, mainly Wednesday to Sunday for the, for the, the paying customers healer setting up on Tuesday. But so it's expanded and that's a good thing, but But you just got to dedicate your week to it if your dealer. How well we're seeing was. Was that one right off the bat Los Angeles? Where people a little trepidation very well? The founders Gavin Riley, Steve Brunner, and Mike Burke is were very well respected as as serious collectors as dealers. And as promoters, they were already being on very successful shows the LA area. And so they already have a track record. 

They were, they people like them, they respect them, and they trusted him. And other than that, you know, John it might not happen. And I've said it on another podcast to I'm on my own, I guess to that, that Gavin Riley was the unsung hero and he's still around. He was a very serious, a schoolteacher. Very serious collector. Had a fabulous collection and then Mike Burke assist is just was kind of the megaphone. He was the master promoter and and Steve Bruner was kind of, you know, you know, A force in his own right. But not as not as out there as the other two guys. And also, you know, obviously those that know, the national. Now it has a heavy corporate presence. Which I actually like, I think it's in for and how about the early ones were where they less more, diversity, ideas, less companies. I believe then we can talk to the to the companies, you know, and I was not part of any of the leadership of that but, you know, I was in The Hobby and I was a person that had some some way. I guess. And if you took the net into the the card companies, about you really are set up the national Eagle. Why everybody? The National Party knows who we are while the w. Why would we need? We don't need brand awareness, we're tops or weird. Weird, honest or we're clear. But then what happened John is when one of them does it than the other ones? Say we'll wait a minute there, we don't want them to get an edge on it so it started creeping in again. I really thank Mike, Burke is for that like burkas. Had worked for classic at one time and it did, said it done some Consulting for some of the card companies that he, he was a master negotiator. And so he tried to figure out a way to get him in because he knew, once he got him in, they would want to be there and they see the value. And so, and again by Anaheim and in 91, they were kind of there to stay. Yeah. So you needed to have one shoe to drop to get fixed. Oh yeah. Do you remember who that was? Who was the first one across that? 

I have to look back in the programs and the schematics, but it's tops, you know, they were the first one in four doing cards, but they're not an early adopter back in those days. They weren't. So that the underdogs that the daughters and the flare, I mean, Upper Deck immediately got in Upper Deck was at the national and 88. They didn't even, they barely had a company. They were, they had a presence, a strong presence in 88, which was the original Atlantic City show. 

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Promos, and fuels away with this going to be a dollar a pack, I don't know if that's going to fly, but they've always seen the value of an upscale product. And, and taking the marketing, seriously, and they've had a great success because that we're going to step aside for a real quick break, but we'll be right back with dr. Jim after that. Aaron Swartz guard is your number one source, for all your PSA and other grading submissions, their Elite status improves, turnaround times. Heck they even provide the card Savers, their chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also offer wax options and single cards to cover, all the bases. Check them out on Facebook, at iron sports cards group, or on the web at iron sports cards.com, or even give them a call at 1-877-560-4440 sa rods. Got you covered 

Deputy be back with dr. James beckum, what was the first year, like you and the company? Beckett, attended as a corporation? You remember? I will say this, a tea in a tea, I probably was there, I know, I shared a table with curves Ford who was my partner in the first Vegas and so at that point, probably right around that time I took my show inventory, I had my collection and I've set that aside and I had some You know better dupes you know that it might trade material that was more serious stuff. My for example, Jackie Robinson, 48 least, I did not put that in the store stock otherwise we would be gone long gone now, but but the basic inventory that I took two shows in the 70s. I merged that in with dervishes stuff and he already had a store going and we calculate the value and I put in basically enough to be a 50% partner. It's so and basically, that's where When my collecting pretty much stopped already had a lot of assets that you set them aside and I was no longer a dealer at that point, but I still had interest in the store. And so I think that first table, the dervish and I had, he mainly was behind the table and he wasn't there very much. We just, I mean, it was kind of a side gig for both of us. We both had good jobs and so, you know, he, you know, we were out walking around. I mean, that's the Perseus am with no one at the Tate, like, no, no, no. Throw a sheet over it until tell the neighboring dealer. A, we're going to be bad flowers mean, your - no, we're just going to go browse and so. But that was the turning point for me to be moving toward type collecting instead of buying Collections and buy sell trade and being a like a dealer with the price guides came out. I really was trying to prove the price guides which meant, you know, buying tight cards and not big Collections and things like that. So I was Was every National. Now I've had, even though we've had corporate booths, I've had that it's always been a case where I've been more time, way more time on the other side of the tape, not behind the table, but out in front wandering around and look for as you know, Rich was our guy that did that, but I want to do a rich was doing. I don't want to sit on the table or the booth or behind the behind the wall. So, and setting up as a dealer, something I Since 1987 myself. How were those National shows? As far as selling where they were, they productive, were you happy with how you did again? It was a vintage. It was a vintage crowd. I mean, because you were Especially in the 80s. I mean, that you're approaching, not necessarily junk wax, but it was too easy to get the basic sets. And so it was mainly. There are few people that did that, but mostly we've been Edge, it was, you know, pre-war, it was Regional cards, hot dog cards, you know, things like that. And so these were veteran. They were collectors / dealers. Those first few years, they were, they were 

Dealers that set up with their duplicates in order to trade or sell in order to get cards they needed at. So that that's was fun. And so there will always interesting stuff there. And so I like I said, I've been very blessed to be on the side of the of the national tables. To be able to wander around and see, you know, like being a kid in a candy store being in the museum and being able to see all that stuff. Instead of being stuck behind a table, whenever I get behind the table, they appeal, just Speak questions. I might ask you the same question so we're no. 

I need to get a get on the other side and go and go seek out what, what, what I want. So I've done that for 40-something years now and like I said only guilt. I feel is that it's so much fun. Yeah. Do you remember the first the first national that get media with with the price guides attended? Well let me put it this way. I mean we The price guide was a big deal in 80 but that was the the an eunuch there, wasn't any monthly until 84 and the 84 it was we started late in 84. In fact the the final formation decisions were made really at the for sipping e84 National and so I kind of had some strategies of how I might do it and I, you know, so I talked to some people and at the end of that show, I knew what I was going to do. 

And I knew how I was going to go about it. And so I had some, you know, I many thoughts, but it crystallized at that National and then it was started, the first issue is in November of of 84. And so then by 85, yeah, we're there and we're selling, you know, selling again, we've always even though we sold subscriptions so much of it was selling through dealers that, you know, we'd sold back issues and pretty much in that in the mid late 80s. We'd have a, you know, kind of a Some kind of a presence in. It wasn't like a corporate Booth because I don't think corporate boots really existed either at a table. You did, you know what, that by 91 we had somehow we made a trade with Berkus, who love trading cards or anything he would negotiate anything. And so you. So we'll give you some publicity in the magazines and then you'll give us will get a corporate booth. And again, we'll get us free ads in the magazines all stuff. But we did is you weren't allowed to sell stuff in the corporate area and so 

We kept our dealer boots and Rich Kline is told the story. We were able to merge it in with riches table priority and so we had some some really good location near the front. Well we were able to sell stuff and mainly that was back issues of mainly at that point was baseball but by 91. Yeah, there were the other sports were kicking it too, but we did a great business in Boulder, you know, Star cover, early baseball monthly magazine, obviously, back at media became a successful. How much credit do you attribute to the National presence in the, the emerging of your company? Well, I mean, it, like I said about tops is that people would say you need to be there for brand awareness. I've said we already have the brand awareness week so we needed to have some objectives for being there. Other than saying, hey, we're hearing nice. 

Analysts there. Anyway. So we already were doing that and that was it. So but what turned, what the difference was for us in the 80s and the early 90s we kind of paid our way by doing back issues and we signed up people and we sold books and things like that to encourage subscriptions. But you know, we paid our way by Publications print and then in the up by 99 though, with great income. That was a whole nother story, and so, then we clearly, we had to have a corporate presence, not a secretive boot. But we had to have the draping and and the private room that graders and that's just taken off like gangbusters. Yeah, no doubt that like you said, yeah, I know you mentioned the 91 a couple time was kind of where it really changed it to give it something else. You were listening to the sports Carnation podcast. We'll be right back after. This break. Okay everybody have you heard about collectible is the One-Stop shop where any collector can buy and trade affordable shares, some of the most rare and valuable sports cards and memorabilia in the world, starting from just five dollars from 1952 Mickey Mantle, PSA, tens and Wilt Chamberlain's iconic rookie uniform to one of one Patrick bones rpas rare LeBron, James logo masks and everything in between Collectibles, creating never-before-seen access and opportunities for all. Let's go the Hobby. We love together. Please note. This is not a recommendation or solicitation provide any security investment decisions should be undertaken after doing your own research. 

Let's go. You are listening to the sports card Nation Podcast. The early ones that we see this hundreds of signers at the, at the current formation of the national where their autograph, guess. Even in the early days there was that soft and sort of added on later on it, increased as it went. I mean it wasn't it didn't start out like it was and it again to give another not an unsung hero because he's well-established, Jeff Rosenberg really had a vision for and so it's been outsourced to 

A long time to really make it work because you can't make it work by just athletes showing up and signing for the people that are in the line that you have to have a year-around autograph business, because a lot of the signers come in and they sign for the people in line. But then they signed some other stuff for later sale to make it with for everybody. And so those first ones that to have a star there yeah there were some stars there sometimes with but that wasn't the drug in this was this was 

Stuff some memorabilia stuff, but a lot of it was cards, a lot of his cards. And so the autograph, you know, was a draw but an autograph, you know, guest signer, but people are already going to come like now. People would already come anyway because sometimes the dealers are the stars and the card companies are the stars. Yeah well I like to I like to think of The cards, you know, you mentioned the grading 99, you know, you mentioned specifically, you know, just talk about, you know, that adding the grading aspect to, you know, the repertoire and the national effect with and I would say, he didn't, like you said, you didn't need message need to National to launch that but I'm sure did. It didn't hurt. How was it received? 

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What there? Yeah, that quick PSA was, we had a huge lead on us. And so we, we need to be there to say, hey, we are, we are we think we're a better alternative but, you know, we aren't alternative and they were in first place and still are in terms of volume for sure. It's so but it doubled our it more than doubled. The cost of US showing up at the national it more than doubled, our footprint of being there. It more than doubled the complexity. 

The number of people we had to take and all that stuff. So and it was the right thing to do but why said, if we wouldn't have gone, it would have been a - it feels. So. Why aren't they coming? Because you kind of need to subject yourself. Not necessarily to abuse but to hear from the customer and there's always going to be some customers who want to tell you how to run their business, and ignoring them is the worst thing you can do. And so listening to him and say, well, we're going to, we really look into it. Yeah, like your Legend PSA at that point, had that sort of the Stranglehold on it. How competitive was that entering at Arena? Did it, you know, when they're open lines of communication or not really like, Hey we're we're competing for the same you know, save piece of the pie, was it not once a animosity but was it, I don't think very worthy competitor and an outstanding guy but you know that we tried not to compete. We tried to be 

Yes, PSA. It really what? And that's somewhat. This upgrades came up grades. We did her sleeve. We had a more heavier stronger older, but also we marketed more aggressively to the average collector and, and not so much of a dealers. They really had. And we went more toward modern than than vintage. And so they, they always had a very strong vintage and very strong relationships. I mean, the dealers were the Your book submitters and we didn't really make plans when we thought well we don't want to make it as special Elite kind of thing that you got to know somebody to get, you know, that we just had and we didn't charge extra for expensive cards. So we had a lot of differentiators and so if you want it you didn't make the you didn't jump, join a club or anything, just you send us some cards and we'll and again in those days, we had on time or it's free yet, we guarantee that PSA had trouble because they had so much volume. And so that really helped us get on that. I remember that because they were that I would, I'd be like, man, I hope it's late by a day. Exactly, exactly. So yeah. But it's funny men like you forget that and then you hear that again member. But what's funny when I was the boss 

It was debated that beat it, but, you know, the national said, 291 still kind, is the one to be, what was it? I mean, what your knowledge 

What was it about the 91 National that made that just explode that particular year? If in your opinion, there were so many corporate giveaways. I mean, Brian Gray, you should have him on because he was, you know, you got to subtract if you think Brian Gray is energetic and enterprising now turn back the clock 30 plus years that he was, he was a young, very aggressive, very Very resourceful, young, man, who was working the show from every end, including outside and inside the show. Because there were so many corporate giveaways and he's, he's very bright to know to Arbitrage these things, you know, figure out. Hey, I can pick it up for free year. I could sell somebody in line who didn't want to stand in line for 10 bucks, then I'll go back and get some more and then he'd have people getting it for him and Runners and things like that. So he he mopped up and he wasn't the only one. 

So there was a very Dynamic element of excitement, even though this is pre the digital world. So you couldn't look on your on your device. So you just had to be in the know and and what was happening in one end of the of the, of the room or where, the corporates were, you know, you could pick up free stuff from the corporates and then go sell it in the other corner of the room, where the say I've never seen this before so whether five bucks, so was the birth of The Flipper. So I'm off. It was, if it wouldn't burn. That it sure took off then and I accept and was the was a great example of that back in those early ones. You know that maybe not necessary first one but even even the early ones where people traveling in from Far, destinations to attendees. Yeah, even overseas. It was the place. There's the best show. You can go to in the year those first 10 years. But again, they were made, they weren't, I don't think they were investors, they were serious. Collectors and I don't know that they were trying to buy up all the cheap cards as much as they were trying to fill in. You know stuff they needed you know, get these aren't those early 80s, it's before Michael Jordan. I mean like start company basketball, you could have bought, you know, in the mid-80s. You could have bought that right from the from the from the horse's mouth time to hear from one of our great sponsors foot. Sports car Nation will be right back after that. 

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With us. Let's return to the show. We're there any show like it was, obviously that it was called the national where there any show that tried to sort of steal the Thunder or compete? You know what I mean? We have shows. Now they're not necessarily competing with the national but they're trying to make a name in their own right. Was there anything even back? Then I mean here aren't we? The in White Plains, we had the East Coast National which is not obviously, as big but, you know, a great show - all right. Was there any attempts to sort of, you know, D, you know, take that belt if you will. You know, the things, I think. Again, I tribute this more to Gavin and then Mike, although Mike, I'm sure saw the wisdom of this but what, what, what they did which was really brilliant is that they didn't say, hey, we three guys who started this, National concept we own it. And so it's going to be out here. It's going to stay in La, which was is a fabulous hobby area and it was a great career. We're just going to keep it here. We're going to be in charge, we're going to own it. What they did was by allowing it to move around the country. They were able to placate the other well-known dealer collector promoter types that had these strong Regional shows. And so I think there was a feeling like the Detroit group, it was the key. 

In Detroit, that simple weighted mean. I can I can have it next year. It's my deal and then went to st. Louis. And then it went to Chicago and so they basically were enlisting, their quote, unquote competition to say, you're going to get a turn. And so in those early years, the key promoters, I think kind of waited there their turn. And what happened was is that once you had a national once you've been a national promoter that was a feather in your cap. Plus it boosted, it doubled or tripled your mailing list. And so yeah, a lot of residual value from that. And so to compete against the national, didn't make sense because people just didn't seem right, A lot of the same dealers. Know each other talk. There was a sense of fair play, I think. Yep, it real quick was that the original concept dr. Jim do, you know or did they sort of adapt on the Fly? And said this is probably the way to go to. I said 

That's that's what Gavin had mind all along. He was hoping that 

He's kind of in the background now, but he I think he really had a hope that people that some other promoters would would take the ball and run with it and not that it would be a cookie cutter National but they have some principles of how to do it and how to be successful on a more National level. But he was really hoping the crew to really be a national show. It needed to not be just an l.a. every time or even Chicago. Yeah, In Chicago till like 83, which now we see that Chicago is a very natural and very successful. It's the, it's probably the most successful site for the national on average. Yeah. Every night. I was been good. Yeah. I've been there twice, I have no real complaints so other than what the cost of flight are, which at the time, looks like your deal compared to today's today's prices. So I like I said, And I've said, you know, other occasions, you've attended everyone. What's that? What's the closest he ever came to to not attending or missing woman's? Was there ever one that you almost didn't get to go to for whatever reason? Well I mean I did drop dead of a heart attack. She like 96 and I and so there was some Jeopardy of whether I would be going anywhere but it so I kind of ease back into, you know. So I really took a step back in the 

Still, when I think I even went to the Hawaii show in the spring that year, so I was doing better. But I was, you know, I had a big shock to my system and so just like that, the first national was of inflection point, the 91 was an inflection point and then 96 and 97 with my heart attack. And I kind of that really made me a lot more of an executive as opposed to a day-to-day, you know, doing all the price guide stuff because I just, I'd been pushing myself. 

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Too hard. And so, Weird. Go to the National in 97 and trying to figure out, you know, what's my new posture, you know, you know, people are going to they're wondering if I'm if I'm going to be in a wheelchair or something, you know, it's just and then it 05. Same thing I'd sold a company in January 2005 and so to go in, Late July of 05 and go with the my successor, CEO from the new group that had bought the company, the guy that I liked, but I could introduce him to people. And so I was kind of sort of retired but kind of semi-retired like I say now. So I just was enjoying it. Introducing a new people and but I didn't, you know, John, I didn't have to do stuff, I could do stuff I wanted to ask, that's what I you enjoyed it. You I knew what I enjoyed it more and so it's been a different kind of a joint. 

And then the last 10 years or so, I've been a little more aggressive about the dollar boxes and things like that, just touching the clouds. Touch uncle, is there anything from those early Nationals that we no longer have that you actually? Whether it was an event, you mentioned like a softball game. They're not necessarily that but I'm just using that exact is there anything? You'd like to see sort of you know reinvigorated or brought back? Today's modern National The Jed you think would would still trans you know, transition well and still be good that they don't have any longer than anything, but if you look at those early Nationals, they had pool parties and Softball games and things like that. And some of that those first Nationals and especially the second one, which doesn't get a lot of talk, but there was it was the promoter. You know, the name on it is Lloyd torpy out of Flint Michigan who done this? Big Detroit shows but really it was his wife, Carol. That was not a Card Collector and certainly our Sports Card Collector but you know she you know kind of ran a tight ship and cheap so they were in it together. And so I think that s National is she said we should have a pool party because wives should come and stuff like that. But John, I don't think that's stuck. I don't think that's stuck because then you look at 

Of course than 83 and Bruce painter who's passed away now but was an outstanding guy but he had Bonita his wife with him and so I think there was some attempt to make it Kinder and gentler for for women. But over the years I mean people just wanted to be at their tables and maximize their money so that so that the softball game I can't remember when the last softball game was maybe 85 or 86. Yeah I'd won't work. Bring that back because that And I still play something. Like you're going to play, will be no outfielders. There were some good players, there were some good games, but it was. I think my sense is it was more choose up sides, which is weird because she didn't know who the the, you know, the good players were necessarily after until you've seen him play. But that Just it just went by the wayside and I don't think it's going to come back. What will come back? I think are the seminars. I think the mid Collective is proven that there probably is a market just like we're doing. Okay of content creation, some content creation. When you have a bunch of people there at a venue and you can, you can digitize it and you live streaming, but also release it later. I think that's that's here to stay. That's your to stay, but mostly it's hard show. And, you know, and you and you get the corporate goodies and you do the You, observe the brakes firsthand which you can be right there and you get in line for, you know, to get a signature from your favorite player or whatever. So so those elements are again, people are voting with their dollars. John. I mean, they they're going to, you know, what does it say that they sold out of VIP or super VIP? Well, one of them, they sold out. I mean, how could they sell out at these very expensive? Well, because 

Got always so many goodie bags I guess. Yeah. But you think get some more goodie bags if you get $200, upfront, or 250 or whatever it is for a five-day, you know, all-access pass. Why do you want to get that money as much as you can as soon as you can? Yeah, yep. Wow, those are good problems. I guess the, the have rather than the other side of that coins Q or listening to the sports card Nation Podcast. We'll be right back after this break. Pastime Marketplace has a line of grated. Cases that are waterproof airtight dust tight and pardoned to protect and organize your valuable collection. Each of our cases come with pre-cut and reform foam so you don't have to cut and tear the phone. When you get your case, the pre-cut foam. Inserts are sized to hold PSA Beckett, SGC and CGS slabs store it all safely and securely with a case from Pastime Marketplace. Check them out at www.fafsa.gov place.com. 

Something you like to see for our back is that, you know, is there something in the current rendition of the national that you're either not fond of or you think could be better? Like you know what I mean? Put you on the spot a little bit or not really well the the Improvement that I think would be good and I don't know that there maybe just not an end up in Center for that but you they have a captive audience of, you know, six or eight hundred dealers or booths or whatever it is. Depends on how you count, but each one of those has a certain kind of presents, do they have some percentage of vintage or memorabilia or whatever? And I'd love to see something where where you could kind of not necessarily Google Maps or but you can kind of people do this they'll wander around with a GoPro or something and show what's there. But if you could database what's at the national so that you can walk in and know, you know, this dealer has this kind of stuff. That's 273. And so I want to make sure I go there, you know, but it's so it's very it comes to flea market ish that you walk in and you're overwhelmed and you as Rich always says, there's a lot more vintage toward the front but still to know where the Obscure. There's some people that have really cool obscure stuff your Independence, there's one getting his Penance and you could you could miss it. Yeah. So I most more interactive like Directory of some kind of yeah, where you can almost type in sort of what he gets some of the YouTubers and you know, the video guys are going around and shooting some of that stuff, but really to make it. I think that'd be cool. That'd be cool because otherwise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a great answer. But again, you've been to everyone. I know you enjoy each and every one for their overall reason. Is there one? That's a particular favorite to you or one that stands out? Is it the 91 or is it for? 

Because, you know, all the stuff is going on and I was having a bunch of meetings and we were just, we were feeling so strong so that it kind of wasn't fun. It's not fun to go over the speed limit, but yeah, I'm enjoying now as much as any of them. And, you know, I'm just trying to figure out how to whether I need to Pace myself, and to kind of push now, because I've got some podcast stuff. And I guess some people are just genuinely want to see and then I got through some cards. There's stuff there that I wouldn't otherwise get to see and, you know, so it's, it's, it's I've got a divvy up my time and then there's the evenings and other things that are fun as well. So, it's I want a begin. I want to make it like a vacation, not a five days of work. That's why I feel guilty if it because, yeah, it's fun. Yeah, no doubt, if you're not having fun at the national like I say on my show, you doing something wrong dude. 

Sunday night to get it for a cheaper price. You can get pretty frustrated yourself. Yeah no doubt. And well I listened I look forward to seeing you there here in about 10 days from when this airs and we'll be live a little Shameless plug as part of how. 

We'll be on the state were scheduled at this point Friday at 10 a.m. eastern and look forward to definitely share the stage with you. Once again, like we got to do last year and enjoying the the national. And I appreciate you sharing some of those. Those insights from, from the past ones that someone like me and most frankly, most obvious, but wouldn't know about without you You know, sharing that 

Thank you. Can I give you two questions? Because you sure you're the guy with the countdown clock for the truth National. But yeah, I suppose I could ask Ray or job, grouchy, or somebody. But two questions I have about this year's. National one is, will the US Postal Service? Be do you like setup? Yeah, or on the side to take overflow to mail back stuff because they are it's Shows. Yeah. Well I will say this they just raise their rates of they might want to like opportunities that you know to get the 65 6.5%, a 1 ounce stamp is now 60 cents. So I like you said it's a captive audience right? Or I mean it's not have to mail it but like I said, if I if I pick up more than I can fit in my carry-on that I've got a problem and it's one day I have a luxury this year Drive. Doing this exact one that I'm ever going to ever going to drive to. So, in this question because I've not been able to find anywhere what the dates are for the 2023 National. When do they usually announce that? Well, I don't know. But I mean you think they would already have announced it. I go in the website, I just seen it's going to be in Chicago but th