Ep.161 w/Steve Menzie of the Sport Card Expo

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Welcome to another stock in loaded episode of the sports Kardasian podcast, the show that brings you all the important hobby. News discussions, debates, opinions, info and interviews with key Hobby and sports dignitaries. Also, if you're good, you know, we are going to give away something. Now. Here's the guy that one of the cards more than the gum. 

John do it. What is up? Welcome to episode. 161, happy to be back. Nothing too crazy happened in the hobby since last episode. Oh, yeah, one little thing. Fanatics acquired tops. Obviously, big news. If you listen to me at any kind of lengthy, you know, I'm a fan of cops. As far as them, you know, grew up on them. I'm from Brooklyn and was worried that those five letters may not live on. I believe, that's not going to be the case. Now, when we are going to see cops on baseball card products, but now we remember, we know when we talked about or a lot of people said, man, we'd love to get tops basketball again or cops football. I think you're gonna get it. You're gonna get tops Chrome, maybe the bone. 

His comeback in terms of football and basketball as well, you know, so we always think about Chrome right when we went when tops lost, the, you know, basketball and football license, but no, they Bowman as well. So Heritage, maybe see some Heritage football or basketball products. A lot of doors open with this. Smart and Fanatics Park to do it. If you ask my opinion and know, 500 million dollars a lot of money, but for brand like tops with that pedigree, I think it was actually a very, very good deal in their favor. Hope, you know, hope there's not a lot of job turn over again that human element and today's guest on today's show. Mr. Steve men's 

President and owner of the sports card expo at a Canada, but not just in Canada. I'll let him explain that. You hear them talk about that during the conversation. But you know, that conversation obviously was taped, before the Fanatics acquisition of tops occurred. You're going to hear us talk about that. Obviously without the knowledge that it was happening for sure. So just keep that in mind. So I think overall it's going to be good. I've said before the fan Fanatics, getting the license. They would be plus has pros and cons. If you will, I'm going to stick to that. Even here with the acquisition of tops, not all going to be roses and daisies. But if we get more roses than, you know the alternative, right? Pluses than-. Is it? It'll be a good thing. And I think it well. I think you're going to give iconic brands that have been gone, six, seven, eight. Nine, ten years. I think those are going to come back and I think, you know, if they're done well enough, it'll be a very good thing. So we got a lot, you know, we'll see. I think you're going to see Fanatics logo on cards sooner than you would have obviously, prior. To the acquisition. I mean that's just a no-brainer. So we'll see how this all plays out. But let's just put it very simply things just got more interesting. So got a great guests team NZ. As I said, talk about the hobby. Talk about how he, you know, quired the sports card Expo and and how he's taking it to new heights and some new stuff. He's got in the works as well. 

Without further Ado. Let's get this show started. Hey there, this is John Keating from That, 70s card show with a friendly, reminder, that the hobby is the people. 

What doesn't one of one car job do from box case and personal breaks? There's always fire, being pulled. They offer both grading subs and their large store located in Strongsville. Ohio offers an incredible selection of sports cards non-sports and authentic autograph. Memorabilia. Stephen family will treat you right. Check them out on Instagram at one of one card shop or on the web at one of one carne shop.com. 

Happy to be joined by my next. Guest here on sports card Nation. He's the president and owner of the sports card Expo. Mr. Steve. Manzi. Welcome. Thanks, Sean. Great to be here. Thanks. I do. I get I wanted to get you on Sue. But you're busy too, you know, the pandemic, everything else but better late than never and hopefully not a one-time only type deal. But I was telling you before we even started recording, you know, I went to I've been to one Expo of the one prior to the pandemic, hitting as a guest, Ted a hung out with Eric, nor in but great show. And I mean, I instantly, I remember telling, Alan. Eric, like this to me. This is like the national, the Canadian national and a great show, tons of autograph people there from from, you know, mainly mostly hockey, but what other sports too. And, and just, well, organized, you know, I've been to enough shows. I've done enough shows as a dealer as a consumer, you can tell when one is a little bit more organized. 

Then another and everything was on point and you know, kudos to you and you've really you've built this thing up, but to be highly regarded, you know, you got it. I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong and 2015. You purchased it from what? Never been there. Prior to the one time. I'm talking about. I have heard from others that it had sort of gotten trying to, you know. Trying to hit the wall. So to speak or it kind of ran, its course with the previous promotion and whatnot. And you sort of, you know, rebirth and and move their past where it was stuck into what we know it now and still moving it for as good as as great as it is and you still moving it forward and, you know, that's a testament to you. And, you know, too. 

Give a little bit of the story. How did you know you? About becoming the person behind your show and some of the stuff he did, you know, early on. Like here's what I want to do with this thing to make it that much better. Yeah, my great things there. So first off the other, happy New Year a great way to kick off the air and yeah, it rolling. I always obviously appreciate the comparisons to the National and it's because it is such an incredible show and it is the, it is, as I tell people that Super Bowl of our hobby. So that, yeah, that comparison I'll take all day long and it's I'm very mindful of it. In terms of being it very aspirational around what I can do with your with the Expos on your vest said and you touched on this as well. I always drove my career. I've always looked outside of the industry. I'm in to draw influences and I've had a couple of previous lives as well as many of us have but I always did. 

Same thing, and I took what I like about of different other different Industries and brought to bear here and to your question of how I came to be now, the owner promoter of scorecard Expo prior to that. I was running Fan Expo in Canada, which is basically at Comic-Con, including the Canadian market and I'll make a long story. Let's long but the part of what we were doing in growing FedEx, though was we added added Sports in for a sec. For a particular year because we had more space to fill and that kind of thing. And I'm on who was the founder of connects both had previously been in the hobby. Also, the sports car hobby as well. So we approached a l was the previous owner and the founder. So I founded sport next boat back in the early 90s. And as you mentioned by his own admission, he was got to get entire it kind of mailing it in the last couple years and he 

I figured that all right. The time was the time was right. So when my time was done with the Comic-Con safe, I went back to LA I said, are you still interested in selling? And he said yeah, you know, we did a deal very quickly. So yeah, I think I came with a good broad base of experience. I didn't come from the Hobby and but similarly in fact, so I wasn't a Comics guy at the beginning either. So I was enough. Humility to know what I didn't know. And to approach it that way, and to learn from the people there. So that's always been kind of that and remains my number one criteria. What will, what will this do for my dealers? How will they feel by it? And I always say, I consider my dealers to be my number one stakeholders. And obviously everybody is important, but that's that's where I go to. So, that's kind of my Approach and what I've focused on this refreshing as a dealer myself. I did my first show. What a tax number. 

15 years old. Let's just say that was a long time ago. But you know, it's refreshing. When you hear someone who runs the show from older. What have you that has? That says that, you know, and and I believe it and I think you're sincere guy, you know, sometimes from horse a that and actions, you know, maybe say otherwise but but, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I don't even like the name promoter to the off all really use that because I always think the order is. She a snake oil. Oh, yeah, you know, that kind of thing is real slick. But yeah, it's really, it's really just an approach to people doing things and I think I made some really early good games with the, with the collectors and the dealers in that. I made some changes that were pretty obvious, but just made everybody's lives easier. And so, if you can take away some of the, the easy pain points or the low hanging fruit to use another cliche, people really appreciate that and that kind of endearing. 

People because you know, again a lot of those folks are traditionalist. In this hobby aren't big fans of change. And so you have to be measured with what you do and how quickly. So I was I was going to ask you how they less or paid for was the negotiation. But you did say they actually it went pretty pretty quick and I'm assuming if it went quick, it was was smooth. Did you? You sort of know like hey if I If I get this, this is my plans or these are some ideas. I like to implement or were you like. Hey, let me try to get this first and then we'll figure it out. What some new things you want to breathe, breathe into this. Yeah, great question. And first off, I like your question on the Kenosha negotiation piece because that was an easy process and you, you and probably everybody listening to this will appreciate this. Because when you, when you're buying something, whether it's a 

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Or boxing. Okay. You should join Canadian it, you have in your mind. What would a fair value is? And so, it's in a person agrees with that, then it's pretty easy. But yeah, so what I started I, as I said earlier, I looked other Hobbies or Industries to see what I want to incorporate from. Those are what kind of things I'd like to do. So I certainly had some ideas of what I wanted to do with that show and potentially with growing vegetable and other shows. Based on the other model, but sometimes that works. And sometimes it doesn't, you have to be prepared to. You have to have a plan at least that you can deviate from if you choose to but you also have to be prepared to throw it, throw it away. If it needs to be torn up and so I've done a little bit of both. Now, that's awesome in, you know, it's nice to hear, you know, even not comparing this show to to you're a real show but you know, a lot of times you come up with an idea that you initially think. I don't that'll be good. And then when you really look at it as another 

As good as I initially thought and it's tough because it's something you can put you and sometimes you have to make that tough decision. You know, it sounded it sounded better than that. I think it is now and it and, to be honest and self-critical, right? And open even to other people, say, Hey, you know, John you ever think of doing this Steve you. How about doing something like that? I think being open like that and I think both of our cases is makes kind of what we do. I think better At that will do everything that's proposed to us. But at least, we'll, we'll listen to it. And hey, if it's good, if it's, if it'll be good for everybody will Implement. I mean, we do a once-a-month live show Breaking cardboard and that was just from fans of this show saying, hey, you don't really do a live show. How about we'd love to see a live show and, you know, I didn't do it right away. It would just I kept getting those kind of 

Then finally, I relented, and I said, well, I'll do it. But I'm busy, I set up. We got plenty of great people, doing it every week to as a weekly thing. I'll do it once a month and you know, it'll be fun for me. Those that wanted. It will get it if it doesn't go well or doesn't do well. We can always scrap it. And you know, looked it's nice when I hear other people, you know, that I know are taking all that in. 

And trying to put out the best product that they can and it sounds like you're doing such but I can't exactly right. And I again, I don't, I know what I know. I don't know a lot about the hobby. So when I get feedback whether I requested or not, I try to factor that in. And and then say, okay. Well, how can I take that and make it viable universe is not and sometimes I'll listen and not do any sometimes. I'll listen. An act, but you have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. His cards wants to buy your cards a long. Trusted name in the sports guard, business. Greg has been buying sports card collections for over a decade. Now, any sport, baseball, basketball, football or hockey and any error fit ditch, or Martin will do just know, drunk wax, error sets, pleased to learn more and to celebrate more should cards go to 

Greg Morris cards.com fill out the Consignment sale request form, and someone will get back to you and how to get cash for your car. Also, if your dealer looking to sell your collection, Greg Morris wants to talk, plenty of dealers, use Greg Morris massive, eBay platform as a way to consign their cars, take advantage of Greg's experience in the hobby to get more bang for your buck. We are back with Steve met. See what about the examples that I use is that, I think one of the best experiences of a Comic-Con and many people that go to sports, Hobbies shows also go, or have been to a Comic-Con. There's some similarities and there's some big differences. One of the big differences is The Fan Experience that you get at a comic on virtually. Every guest that you see at a Comic Con will be doing photo ops in a Q&A. And generally, the 

These are free. But it's that kind of experience that you just can't get when you get to listen to your Idols, talk about their career, their Journey, how they got there. All those things that get it may be available on the web with the hear their stories and their actions is great. It's hard to replace. So, almost from the get-go. I sir. I introduced a stage with q&a's at my ex post and it cost money and it's an investment, but I think I want to give more value. I think when I first started walk around the show that I now own and not being a collector as look around. Say, okay. Well, we gotta do here because you let me know the collectors of the content for the whole there should be more, there should be more people that want more or that it's not just transactional everything. So the Q and A's have become a piece that I'm really really proud of and happy about and I get great feedback on. So well your but you're about to get some more great feedback because to that The exponent that I went to that, I keep referring to and talking about. It's the one thing I noticed that the stood right out to me is I watched about three or four of those and just well done. You don't like you said, you know, what show can you do? What show, can you go to and you get something like that. Mean, let's, let's be honest with you. The national that I'm aware of doesn't even have that. They have plenty of autograph guests. 

But I don't see that, you know, they might fit maybe at like a private party like a VIP or something. Yeah, you get pulled out of the show on the show. Floor itself, ahead at your Expo to have those celebrities, those athletes answering questions and very entertaining. Like, I've made a point to watch them and even to see, whoever was speaking, you know, they were, they were enjoying it, they were They lit up and maybe they do they love to talk about their careers. Right? And yeah it and I think it's great. So so one thing Steve and I'll let you and I cut you off here, but I don't you brought it up. I'm glad you did. What's the one thing? I definitely took away from that weekend. I was there like that's that's so cool that that happens here like that and I couldn't think of anything. I'm not a Comic Con guy. So I didn't have those experiences prior and I just thought it was so 

Refreshing and so different than what you would get at your typical car show. I thought man, that's that's so cool and was glad to see it. But yeah, I mean that's, that's his aunt's to branded value there. It's like you said, it's no cost me. That might be a little cause for you, but it's well worth it because it's no cost to anyone who wants to pull up a chair and take that information. And that, that interaction. In and I sure took advantage of it during my time there but well got a good. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate that feedback total. Yeah, I think that the stage is really important to me. I think it adds Great Value, but in truth, what I've also seen the other side of it is it's better financially for people as well. And I saw that firsthand, you know, if I want to, if I go and sit and listen to Patrick Stewart, talking to will Shatner. And, you know, that was one of the things that I put together in the past. 

That's pretty incredible. And you and often times. They'll y'all live a her too. Well, let's go get our photo taken with him. And so you pull it. The wallet and you spend. So it really does benefit everybody. But that's one of the differences in the hobby. We're in our Hobby. People are now looking at it. Well, that's 15 minutes. I could do a hundred signatures in that time. It's going to cost me a hundred times 35 bucks. You owe me poured red, whatever that we. So those are the competing pieces where I try to look. It more macro point of view. What's the right thing to do? And then the use, if you do the right thing, it works out in the end. Yeah, I just liked it so different than what you would say. Seeing it. And not only Deborah mean, it's one thing to be different but also to be entertaining and someone can get something from from that. And I, you know, I even some of the ones that I watch like, I knew quite a bit about that athlete or celebrity, but I 

And even something else from that conversation and so you always can learn something they get to see him, you know, you get to see a different side of them in person. You know, I'm sure we can go on YouTube and look up interviews and stuff with the be there. Something about being there and watching it as it's going on that you can't. You can't replicate that on YouTube and what have, you know, it's not it's not scripted. It's an off the cuff and you're right. I think many of the guys once They get up there. I mean, they may pitch him on a little bit beforehand. Eric, we get to relive the great parts of their, their careers and so on. And that's, I think that's, it's a big win for also. I'm really happy with that. And that's just one example of the kinds of improvements that I've liked to make and, you know, committed to doing so yeah. Don't ever don't ever stop those in, you know, even like you said, you hear some athletes, say, Hey, you know, I can't play anymore and we're tired but the next best thing is the memories I have and talking to you. You folks about them. It's the closest thing to game day. I'm probably going to get to again and here in a, you know, a retired or former athlete, say it in those terms. And really, you know, it hits home and they enjoy, like you said to enjoy its they're sort of, they can kind of go back to definitely mostly happy time in their playing careers. And, you know, I've even heard some of them say 

Forgot about that till I had to remember it type of type of deal and kind of chuckled themselves and you know kind of hey, it's kind of coming back to me now talking about it. I'm remembering things that I hadn't thought about in 20, 30 years potentially. It's so that's always good to. I think it's it's sort of cathartic for them as well when they're when they're talking about their career. So I love it, you know, we'd end up in. Damn it obviously. 

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The no one can plan for And then you put on the virtual Expo and, you know, it's difficult is a real footing on the line Expo where we can attend the virtual, you know, as not really being done before you had to do it. Let me talk about this. You know, what talking about the difficulties of really both, you know, putting on the live one, getting all those those guests to you. No autographs. Yes to come to the show and then the The, when the pain that make it the, you know, putting out a virtual one, they're both difficult in their own rights. Yeah. Yeah, they are certain had more success with Live Events and that kind of thing. So, you know, I'm good at staying in my Lane kind of thing. So I know what, I know what I know and I do when I don't know. So when it comes to running the shows, you that piece, I get, I know how to do the operations. I know how to how to Market promote. I know how to manage it those pieces. 

Yeah, I don't know on the sports side. I didn't know the guests model. I didn't know that. I didn't want to be in the autograph business directly. So I met many. Some other show promoters will do the guest bookings themselves and they'll they'll do the guests paid and they'll which is where the hobby work. They'll keep a lot of the autographs and that kind of thing either for themselves or to sell through their own networks. So that's not me. I don't have that knowledge. I don't have that ability. I don't have the interest in doing that. So I use a third-party company. To, to manage the autographs. Kind of, like, the way TriStar does. Yep. National so that part's good. I mean, there are always challenges and then, obviously, the biggest challenge have a could ever plan on wood was the pandemic. And so, I kind of moan and complain and denied it for a little bit and figure. Well, maybe I will be able to do a show in the year 2020 and so I delayed it for a while and then realize, okay. Well, no, this is not going to happen. 

But again, virtual shows, weren't knew. They were very new to the Hobby and they were more done in the B2B like trade shows like true trade shows as opposed to more shows. So, one of the guys that works with me is like he's been a tremendous asset to me. It had done a very deep dive into all the various platforms that you could pick for virtual shows. So he'd done a lot of that research for me and said, yeah we can we 

This and again in doing that I thought about why do I want to do this? What's my goal in putting on a virtual show? And for me, when when right back again to the dealers that I there's some platforms. It looks much cooler and much nicer than the one, I eventually landed on. But my primary goal was I want a platform that will allow my dealers to buy and sell because that's what they're telling me they want to do. They don't care. If they've got a cool Avatar that looks younger stronger than they do in person. They just, they just want to be able to myself and connect you with the people of the community that they, that they can't see. And we did that. It worked. Well, and I spent time talking to a bunch of dealers in advance. We had a lot of learning sessions in advance and we can figure out how to use the new technology because again, a lot of the guys that came in came into the first show are admittedly, not Tech. Guys. I'm not a tech guy, but they were very open and I was really impressed with a lot of the guys that got engaged that, that they were just really. 

Would you do idea? You'll forget this hobby which is often known for everyone being very conservative and not not wanting to open to change. That was a big. That was a big deal and it was really successful. People were starved for Content. So it went really well. I didn't end up getting the benefits from it that I expected, but I got other benefits from it. So, it was a win. I mean, I don't I don't do anything that I expect to lose money on. Yeah, but you know, Those business standpoint, you want to make it, make a profit from things but what I got was more value than profit if I can say that. In other words. Yeah. Yeah. I exposed. I had over 5,000 people that had never been to the show. Attend the virtual show, and I had more than 10,000 combined, the virtual shows that I did, but over half of those were net new to the show that never heard of my show before and where had never attended. So, by database goes off. My brand is better known elevates me in the brand Within. 

I'll be a lot better and all kinds of things flow from that. Place. My dealers did well from it. So. It was a real win-win. EBay was a partner and they loved it and they added a lot of value to it. And then I did, I work with many of the Hobby companies and I started to improve my relationship with them. Yeah, cuz my shows historically been predominately, hockey. I've not worked directly with Tops Company. Before this gave it a chance to work with them. I ended up doing a show help back at produce their first virtual Summit to Just because we're the same thing they wanted to do that. So it's really helped me and it's been a great learning experience. It's allowed me to do a deeper dive into the hobby as well. Don't step aside to hear from one of our sponsors won't be long, but we'll be right back after that. This sports card shot is yours. Small town, local card, shop with the global reach located, in New Buffalo MI, Michigan. The shop is one of the most accessible in the midwest. In addition to being an authorized panini. 

The sports card shop, carries all major trading card Brands, including Tops Upper Deck, Pokemon Yu-Gi-Oh, and more with all that new wax a half million singles and showcases full of great at cards. You're sure to find something great for your collection. Whether you're just starting out or a seasoned collector, the sports card shop is your One-Stop shop. So call us. Come see us or visit us on the web and social media. Our phone number is two six nine four, six, nine zero one. 140 website is the sports card shop at Moko.com. The sports card shop is part of the Moko. Retail Group connecting Sports The Hobby and people around the world. Sportscar nation is back with Steve Nancy. 

And you know, you keep saying something that I want to touch on like you mention about, you know, you're sort of new to the Hobby in a way that could be kind of good Steve because, you know, sometimes like you said, you know, guys have been here a while. Maybe a little jaded kind of set in their ways. I think, fresh eyes, a fresh perspective. Someone that isn't may be Jaded by years of hobby, tribulations and experiences. 

I think there's something to that and I always say on this show. There's no pension plan for all my years in it. To someone that just got in in the last few years. I'm a welcoming guy. We need people in the hobby of the Hobbies going to be successful and Thrive, whether you're doing it for money or not from money, doesn't make a difference. You need people in the hobby for the hobby to exist and be successful. So So, you know, but there are some others that are little bit more like, you know, kind of get off my lawn book, even being new. I don't even think, you know, you sort of Imagine like that. I don't know but I think there's a way that could be a positive as well. Yeah, she hated kind of coming in it or open with an open for open mind, open perspective, willing to to maybe do things differently, which is sometimes what is needed to breathe? Kind of new life. 

To something whether it's a business or show how the whatever platform. I think that that's a, that's a good thing rather than that a - yeah, and that's the way I look at it. I can't be objective and looking at things that you know, there were lots of examples within comic-con's, we're all wow. I'd love to have this guy come to my show so I can meet him if that didn't happen for me. I was able to say, okay, does it make sense as to who our audience wants? Same kind of thing happens. I can be objective. You have a guy says am a little short on cash for my booth. But can I give you a whatever card? I now know, okay, and I know I can tell whether I'm getting a good deal or not. But yeah, it's yeah. That that objectivity has been helpful. Yeah, it's but you know what? I always do appreciate in anything that I am involved with his passion and there's no shortage of passion in this house. 

And passion is a double-edged sword. Sometimes it's anger passion. Other times. It's just Joy, but that's okay. He got to take the good with the bad and and that's a great thing. So that's how I always try to look at when I get problems that come up or angry people to guy understand that. It's come from. Well. I really wanted to meet whatever. Yeah Stratus. But I had had a she experienced for this reason or that reason and then just work it out. It's like it's don't lie. Like secret that's unique about that. It just how we all want to be treated. Get any part of our Lives. Yeah, and I learned early on from my coaching football and baseball. You can't you can't win the whole room. You can't, please everybody, but if you can please the majority you doing something doing something good, you mentioned, you know, the virtual kind of gave you an opportunity to get to know top to Panini a little better. Obviously, the real shows you've gotten to know Upper Deck being high. Lucky, we got the news this year. That is the one license. That's not going to change hands. They're going to keep the NHL license. I can only speak for myself and saying that's a great news as far in my opinion Adventure. Guess I'll ask you. But I met your guess you sort of echo that are you glad that Upper Deck retain that NHL license? Yeah, I am. 

I hesitate go for a couple Reasons. I'm not that I am glad to get, I have a great relationship with Upper Deck. Obviously, they're tremendous for for hockey and for Sports in general. So I'm super happy about that. I'm super happy that they determined that now because it gives the time to end like the plan. Yeah. I'm not yet sure what to make of the bigger play and I was very curious from a business and practical standpoint as to why you know, Fanatics in the League's didn't 

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Want to know, be a fly on the wall to do. What those negotiations were were, but you can't be. And I mean that's got to be, it's got to go down as one of the biggest, the best kept secrets in corporate history, you know, I don't divert from the question, but no, it's actually boggling how that, how that shocked everybody in the hobby. Other than those, whatever 50 people that were in the room, but man, oh man, in today's social media HDD, That Dad didn't get leaked somehow that somebody didn't talk or say. Hey, this is about to happen or this is ongoing, like it's amazing. Like I choked on my show, all those people should be drafted into the CIA. I mean that the fact that they could keep that, you know, that tight lid and what not. And, you know, in tops is cases, they have a gym because they were about to go public. 

And it literally the day before and that dead derailed and, you know, not to make this CNBC. But if you know anything about Michael Eisner, he's used to winning the majority. Well, so this was the rare guide. He was on the other side of that coin. It's not the MVP before he got to, you. Got to say even at a Layman. How did I like, Michael Eisner missed that your life in your company, and you your home? Valuation and not to mention all the guys that have been involved in people. Sorry that have been involved with doing the IPO. And although, the background analysis that got missed, is, I would definitely like to be a fly on that wall to but yeah, I don't know if I'd want to be in the office that day. Probably not a happy happy guy to say the least. No, I did. I think that I think that both cooler and logical heads will prevail that. There's a lot of great. 

Value in those companies that there's too much, great, great value there with people, with with assets and knowledge that can't there and not to be thrown away. Yeah, it which leads. I got to ask you, you know, I know they're like two years out from actually producing products. So when they take over the licensing, have you had any permanent preliminary contact with Fanatics? As far as incorporating them? Maybe his be part of what? You do show wise and from you know, Expo wise, not installed it, this went down there. I am sure a lot of that is still being being formed as we speak. You know, I have worked with an axe and axe has been involved with my show in the past. But the markets, the how companies sell is an evolving thing. It's always very, very fluid and Fanatics. They built their whole model on the direct-to-consumer basis. Now that said, they also still 

They sell them to dealers, they sell direct, so they were involved with the show, even great to work with you. My experience my limited experience, but they know what works and man. They've done. A lot of great things for the hobby, but it's also, it's, there's a lot of weight and feet is going to be dapa. Yeah, no doubt in this, you know, the someone's been doing this a long time. And it doesn't matter whether someone's new or it's definitely going to be an interesting next. Two to five years, to see what happens in the next few. Few years before the licensing officially exchanges hands. And you know whether Fanatics buys a tops or Panini comes of some sort of, you know, IP agreement, where maybe those those Brands live on under Fanatics is umbrella. Let's say it's Sonja so many questions that remain unanswered will get answers Forum. We're just, we're not at that time yet. It'll be interesting to see us as time. 

Five. What, what actually shakes out and then, you know, two years when when there's actual products to be made in what form or fashion and under what kind of agreements that they come, and yeah, go ahead, make them with fake, the seismic shift in Hobby. And last body will never be the same, but, and I think Many people here. Human nature is initially. How do I protect protect? What's mine, or what's going to happen to me? And I think you need to get through that initial fear to say, okay, where is my opportunity? And the great thing is we all have a big enough window that we can now. Say. All right, what does this mean for me? And how can I benefit from it? Everyone's talking about the change in the Hobby and so on and it's been massive know that I like to think of it more as an evolution of the hobby. Yeah, and thing. Where is it going? And 

What can I do to be on the right end of that, and Make it a better product. If you like great things that are coming into it and what I saw I liked the word Evolution or the changes that the great thing is the hobby gets to keep all. 

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We are back. I compared to have a to like a sports franchise, you know sports franchise has their fans. They buy season tickets. They fill the stadiums. The Arena's well fans get old, right. Like, you know, that's human nature. We need new fans to come in and be fans of the team and fill those Arenas. And the hobby is, is no different. And so, you know, I know sometimes We sort of, you know, not not me personally, but another sometimes don't like a lot of the new influx of collectors hobbyist, you know, like coin them different terms or Flippers or, you know, yeah, to me. There's no wrong. There's no wrong way to hobby long. As you do look at beating legal. You're not cheating, anybody. You're not stealing and hurt her and quotes, right? Right. Now people often talk out of both sides of their mouth. They may criticize that for you. Are more than happy to sell their cars as we got four bucks, for 400 bucks and take the money. Yep. We can't have your cake. Can't have your cake and eat it too. And I yeah, I agree. You're right. It is an opportunity to to pass knowledge on to share knowledge. But to learn a lot of new things. I mean, there's some couple of guys that I know that they specifically that I call the future of the ah, because they they have done their work. They know they know their stuff in there and they bring a whole new sensibility and great. 

We're doing things. So, yeah, the one thing to have these taught us. Just when you think, you know, he'd, you know, you don't know. And, you know, you know, I've said, I can, you know, I always say if I'm if I'm wrong, if I'm right more than wrong. I'm doing all right, but, you know, even with the pandemic, I thought that was going to be bad for the Hobby and turned out to be the perfect storm for all the ingredients were there. And then the hobby boom, over the course of I said two years and I was on my show in March of that year saying, you know, folks brace brace for a little impact, you know, this is real-life stuff. People are going to lose their life, you know, toilet paper, water Foo, paying your mortgage, you're all going to be at the Forefront. We had no idea here in the states where we're going to get stimulus packages and people were going to work from home and have 10 tabs open on their computer, doing some work. And 

And some play and you know, and we see what happens. So I always say you were with all my years of experience for the two sets. That's were, I was wrong. I my prediction of what I thought was going to happen. And sometimes that's the, you know, the the Hobby in a nutshell as we just don't know what's going to happen. And that's what keeps me on the edge of my seat and for an old guy in the keeps me a little bit. It hobby young because it's yeah, it's interesting and curiosity, you know, curiosity and and the passion you mentioned important work of passion, right? You care about the Hobby and even some of those, you know, we talked about it, but guys have been a hobby or a while that maybe aren't receptive to new Folks up there passionate to but maybe, you know, in a different sort of way, but you know, they're a little more. 

Self-centered, if you will then they're looking at it. We're from a broad perspective. But to Ichiro, you know, we talked about life. I want to talk about something. You know, we've always on the show, talk about stuff outside to hobby in 2016, you know, you rescued a gentleman. I read about that. I thought that was the one awesome that you know, I know you said right, place? Right time. But you know, you believe in something they were sort of meant to be there and you know, a gentleman was kind of caught in between a rock and a Waterway for a while. You were walking your dog out I'ma let you know stuff. But yeah, you just came upon this gentleman and freed him. Then you went home and got some some water, a blanket and you know, the authorities were called and you know, but I could 

A different outcome had you not been there kind of Just speak to that day. I'd like to hear about if you don't mind. Sure. No, I'm not. No, I'm happy to. I mean, it was a great experience for me and certainly for the other gentlemen, the the day before,