Card Mensches E35 Hobby Mount Rushmores w/ Dr.James Beckett

SPEAKER 1: Hey, everyone. John Newman here. Thank you for downloading this episode of Card Mensches myself and Danny Black of Hobby News Daily would like to remind you this is a live show every other Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern. It can be found on most of our social medias. Danny's at Sports Ball and Hobby News Daily.

SPEAKER 1: I am Sports Car Nation Podcast and it can be found on our YouTube channels, at Hobby News Daily, Sports Carnation Podcast at Sports Bult and at card matches. So with that being said, we hope to see you very soon on a Friday night in our very active chat room. Now, let's start the show.

SPEAKER 2: Experience, quality consistency and the quickest turnaround times in the grading industry, we are proud to partner with SGC grading. Check them out at www dot go SGC.com.

SPEAKER 3: Hi, I'm Danny.

SPEAKER 4: Black and I'm John Newman. Welcome to Car Matches.

SPEAKER 4: All right, I'm still John Newman. That's still Danny Black and we have a third match. This week he's been out here before. He's probably more deserving of the match title than the two who started the show. So it probably should be his show, but we're, we're always glad to share a screen with him. Doctor James Beckett. Welcome doctor.

SPEAKER 5: Great to be here, fellow Mensches.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: I say what a Friday night you get to spend it with us. You must have lost a bet somewhere.

SPEAKER 5: I had my Friday night date with my wife last night.

SPEAKER 5: There. You better to be better to be early than late.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a quick shout out to my wife. Who's celebrating a birthday today? I will not give out the number. But it, it is a it's a significant birthday. So happy birthday to my wife.

SPEAKER 4: There you go. Happy birthday. Laura. As well. Thank you for letting Danny slip away and, and do this episode. This is episode 35 of card matches. We're in our third county, a third year of, of we started, I guess in 2022 late 2022. So we've lasted this long. I don't know if it's stubbornness or a few people like the show.

SPEAKER 4: But, but, but here we are this episode. Doctor Jim as, as we, we didn't surprise Doctor Jim this, we're calling our, our hobby, Mount Rushmore. Those that maybe don't know, Mount Rushmore has presidential faces on it. It's carved in, in North Dakota, I believe.

SPEAKER 4: And or South Dakota and we wanted to do a hobby version who would, who would be the four guys or people that we would put on our hobby, Mount Rushmore. And I said, who better to have on a show like that than someone like Dr Jim who, who probably knows some of these folks we might be talking about tonight and also to see who you pick. Doctor Jim. Right.

SPEAKER 4: I mean, while we might have similar picks in, in certain circumstances, you've had your finger on the pulse of the hobby, for a long, long time you've attended, as, as people know every National. So you've might have crossed paths or even known some of these folks personally, maybe not all of them.

SPEAKER 4: But definitely when we thought of this episode, we said we have to get Doctor Jim, on, on this episode. It's just, that kind of episode. So, here you are, you graciously accepted our offer and, you know, you asked to go last, so we will honor the guests, request. We'll kind of go, we'll let Danny, we'll go typewriter order here.

SPEAKER 4: I don't know. The Dakotas, the furthest west I've been is, is where Doctor Jim is, which is Dallas. Unless, I don't know, I don't know which is more West Chicago or Dallas, but that's as far west as I've ever gotten. At least state side I've been to Belize, I don't know if that's more west or, or not. But, so, yeah, no one, no one believes as you.

SPEAKER 3: It's Friday night, Dr Jim.

SPEAKER 4: That this could go off the rails. Doctor Jim, this might be the last time you agree to something like this, but we're glad to have you. None nonetheless. Well, I don't know my Dakotas, we've established that we established that there is. I am correct in this, there are four faces depicted on Mount Rushmore.

SPEAKER 4: So we're each gonna pick four people. We'll kind of take turns. Again. Many of us may have similar picks and then we can elaborate great on that. I also had three honorable mentions that didn't crack my top four that I'Ll, I'Ll throw out there at the end and, and same goes for, for you guys too if someone was sort of close, but just didn't sneak in onto the, onto the, you know, onto the rock facade.

SPEAKER 4: So, we'll let Danny go first. We'll go typewriter order here. And Doctor Jim will, will do the first round last and, and, and whatever order you want to do in it. So, go ahead, Danny, you can kick this up. All right.

SPEAKER 3: Well, may, maybe it's just the fact that I love history. I'm gonna put them in order for me. So I'm gonna start with the oldest and based upon your introduction, Doctor Beckett must have grown up with this guy. Jefferson Burdick.

SPEAKER 3: Just kidding. There's the picture Jefferson Burdick, who created essentially what I called the card catalog of cards. His collection ended up in the New York Metropolitan Museum Of Art.

SPEAKER 3: And, and he literally glued cards to pages, sports cards, non sports cards, and created every name, abbreviation.

SPEAKER 3: You know, really started the documentation of the hobby and, you know, the first person to really put it down on page and make it universally accessible to everybody. He was a big believer in making everything accessible. That's why he left his collection to the museum.

SPEAKER 3: And, and it wasn't about grading and it wasn't about flipping and it wasn't about ebay. He was literally discovering these cards himself and, and creating the T and the WS and all the sets. And I just think that, that you have to start there when you look at the Mount Rushmore of the hobby.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, he's, he's on my list. He's on my list, as well. And, for everything you just said, right? We sometimes I don't think he gets enough credit and I, I, I'Ll acquiesce here to, to Doctor Jim. I, I have a feeling he's on Doctor Jim's list.

SPEAKER 4: But I don't think, you know, Jefferson Burdick gets enough credit for his contributions to the hobby. Like you said, some of these early sets had no names. There was no identification pertaining to him and he kinda classified. He was the Dewey decimal system of collector collectible cards, when there wasn't one and it's still used today.

SPEAKER 4: Right. I mean, nothing got changed. He, he ca, he cataloged them and we still use his designations, to, to this day. And, you know, I'm not saying, like, had he not done it? Someone else wouldn't have done it eventually, but he did it and we had to get credit, credit years.

SPEAKER 3: If somebody else did it, it would be totally different. This is our vernacular. Yeah, this is the.

SPEAKER 4: I, I don't think we talk about him enough in the hobby. I know. Saber, which is very cool, done. Their yearly award is the Jefferson Verdict Award. We have, combined, the three of us have won one of these.

SPEAKER 4: Unfortunately, it's not me or Danny. So you, you figure out who actually has won a Jefferson Verdict, achievement Award. It's, it's Doctor Jim Congrats, to, to Doctor Jim that, Mr Dick Perez, Mr Diamond King is this year's recipient of.

SPEAKER 3: As far as I know, only one of us has cleaned his grave.

SPEAKER 4: That's true. He's only about an hour. His, his, resting place is about an hour north. Actually less than an hour. It's about, 30 minutes. I'm thinking of Cooperstown for some odd reason.

SPEAKER 4: It's about 30 minutes, not even, north of here. And I actually in the area, you know, per periodically and, you know, I went up there, I'Ll make the story short. It's, it's already been kind of covered but I was surprised at what shape his grave was in and I'm like that. I, I can't leave it like that. So, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER 4: But, it's my way of saying thank you. I guess in, in a small way compared to his contributions, to the hobby. So I'm fortunate enough I live close enough, to do, be able to do that now, period check in and make sure it's, it's being maintained. So, a guy we don't talk about enough, very important to the hobby we know today.

SPEAKER 4: And, you know, his, his, his collection is, is at the New York Metropolitan Museum Of Art. And, just, when you're, when you're doing a Mount Rushmore, yeah, to me it was really one of the first ones that came to mind. I'm gonna shut up now and let Doctor Jim, allude to, you know, his, his musings on, on Jefferson Bird two things.

SPEAKER 5: One, I think that he's the only one that I don't know. Personally, I think everybody else we're gonna talk about. I knew or know or knew and, in this case you don't have to be dead, I don't think to get on the, the dead presidents. But, maybe we're not thinking it that way, you know, must you don't have to be dead.

SPEAKER 5: But I think Jefferson Burdick, I wish I'd known him. I think we'd be Kindred spirits in a sense. Every time I'm on one of these shows, if Mookie has a comment, there's always one really great nugget in his comment. And so I'm just picking up if anybody's watching about Jefferson Burdick being the Charles darling.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, basically, that's a really interesting thing because first of all, Darwin did the origin of the species. He also did survival of the fittest and he believed in natural evolution over time. All of those are aspects of our hobby, that if it endured for the, you know, for 100 years. And the other one other point about Jefferson Burdick is that T 206 is not a set.

SPEAKER 5: It is many sets that he combined into one of white border of the American tobacco brands. Otherwise there could be 17 sets. And so he made, it wasn't just robotically. Well, here these are cards from Rodeo Meets. So we're gonna call that Rodeo Meets. Now there, it was a lot of selectivity editorial, judgment that he used. And thankfully he was, he was, he was a wise person that made these sets. Chas so he's my number one.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, no doubt. I wanna just a quick shout out, graduated from Syracuse University, where I'm, I'm not too far away from myself and he worked at what what was called Kraus Heinz, which if you look out my window, it's about five blocks to the, to the south of me on the same street. So while he passed away, obviously be before or I was born and before I even came to Syracuse, as I'm originally from New York City.

SPEAKER 4: There is that connection locally with him here being a Syracuse University graduate working up the road and being his resting place being about 25 minutes away into, I think even locally, Doctor Jim, I, I've said this on my show, having him kind of with his roots being here. He's born in Central Square, New York, went to Syracuse. I don't think we talk about him. I don't think the media here even talks about his him enough.

SPEAKER 4: Being that, that he's from the area and it's kind of sad. So anytime I can, you know, and, and one of the things that came from what I did that I'm most proud of is not the actual cleaning, but the people that, you know, said, you know, hey, I didn't know much about this guy. I saw your post and I researched him, I googled him and I learned about him and that's the, you know, what, what makes me smile. So there you go.

SPEAKER 3: I'm gonna keep the trains on the track. John, you're on number two now. Right. We're going around.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, we all picked him. So, I'Ll go, I'Ll go second.

SPEAKER 4: This guy to me, you know, I mean, tops, wouldn't be, tops. I know the Shan family. I'm a kid from Brooklyn. This guy put Tops where we know it, today. And, that's side burger, right? He's, he's a legend, in the hobby. He worked, I think, until he was almost nine into his nineties.

SPEAKER 4: As tops. You can see him here, later in life he still got a top shirt on and, you know, he was just a, a hustler. This guy got to know the players on a personal level, created relationships with them. And, you know, the, the hobby I don't even wanna say tops, but I think the hobby wouldn't be where it is today without, this man's side Berger.

SPEAKER 4: And so, I know John Keating wants me to keep talking. But I think I'm gonna put the mic down right here. John, you might have something in your mail if you're looking for a giveaway, smell it first though.

SPEAKER 4: All right.

SPEAKER 4: There you go.

SPEAKER 3: That's, that's a Friday night for Newman.

SPEAKER 3: Doctor Beckett. Your thoughts on Serger.

SPEAKER 5: He's my number two. He's my number two. I did know him is a wonderful guy and frankly, this is great because he really was a mench. Most people thought he was a real Mensch in in the fullest sense and, really was a great promoter of the hobby and of baseball and of tops and just AAA wonderful guy. And it's sad that he's gone but he's, he made many contributions.

SPEAKER 5: Not just 52 tops.

SPEAKER 5: He was an enduring influence in that company and kind of the soul of that company for, for so many years. So, yeah, he's a, he's, and, and it's not that he's less than, it's just, that's a little bit kind of priority or, or maybe chronological order. So, he's, he's not number two in any sense other than he's the second one and, will deserve for sure.

SPEAKER 3: What was his ability to get player contracts early? And also the design of the cards? I mean, that, that is the hobby, the modern hobby.

SPEAKER 5: I think, Woody Gilman was more on the design of the cards. Now, PSY may have had some, some, some inputs there. The old move of going to the larger card, was a big deal and, you know, in 51 they were doing these, you know, kind of tall and skinny, kind of, Connie Mac, all stars in the teams and all that stuff. So that maybe those were tests, but the 52 top side, size I think, really took the market away from Bowman.

SPEAKER 4: That is not Cy Burger, it's not Cy Colton and unfortunately it's not, Cy Burger. Danny, anything you, I mean, he made your list too, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, he was, my, my number two. I think he's synonymous with Tops.

SPEAKER 3: I, I think tops. I is the biggest name in the hobby history for card production if we were to rank them and, you know, tops is not, to me it doesn't exist or doesn't have anywhere near the cache without C burner. So, and this is, this is funny. Brian Gray was calling, we wanted to know why he wasn't.

SPEAKER 4: Number two, it might be, let's see if he makes compromise.

SPEAKER 5: Just wait anyway.

SPEAKER 3: So I just because of, of his association with Tops and, and, and the length of time in the hobby and everything he did to, to, I think, to create the really the modern card and hobby that, you know, we call it vintage but post war, the Tops brand easily. Number two, going in chronological order.

SPEAKER 4: Correct to Doctor Jim. Like I know you, you, you knew him, you went to every National? Was he someone that made a point to be at the National himself? To Doctor Jim? Was he, was that common place for him or not? Not, not so much.

SPEAKER 5: In the early years. Tops really didn't have a presence at the National. It's only been in the, the, the more modern nationals last 10 or 20 years where there's been a strong corporate presence but the Tops in the, in the, you know, in the eighties and nineties, I don't think they felt like they needed to be there.

SPEAKER 5: So, where I saw Cy Berger was at, at the baseball, like winter meetings, I saw him at the winter meetings. That's where he could hold court and because it was this combination of the players and the cards and he just really was, like I said, that was his element. He, he loved that whole thing but the National, he maybe came a few times, but that wasn't his main thing.

SPEAKER 3: Ruben has a comment in here. Dr Beckett was that phone called PS A offering to buy you from the show trying.

SPEAKER 5: To acquire a Mensch.

SPEAKER 3: Yes, it's a men. It's a Mensch move.

SPEAKER 5: So they're on an acquisition spree. Yes, exactly. Well, we'll see, wait till I get all my names out and then we'll see if they want to call me or not because I've got some controversial ones.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, and I'm in a hurry up and get to Doctor Beckett. We're on number three and.

SPEAKER 4: You're, you're up. So whoever you want to throw out.

SPEAKER 5: I, I last every time I have 20 names, guys, I have 20.

SPEAKER 3: Ok.

SPEAKER 5: So three is probably where I will diverge from you guys. So you guys go and then I'Ll, and then I'Ll, I'Ll give you my third which I don't think you, you will have picked.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I'm gonna, then I'Ll go with number three because to me, my three and my two kind of went hand in hand.

SPEAKER 3: I went Warren Bowman.

SPEAKER 3: I, I know there's some controversy in the beginning of the company. There was lawsuits.

SPEAKER 3: Lots of, lots of stuff, but he pushed tops.

SPEAKER 3: With that without a doubt, Bowman I think made tops a better brand and for some creativity, some of my favorite all time cards are Bowman cards.

SPEAKER 3: I know that's true for John and Doctor Beckett. I'm sure you have your favorites.

SPEAKER 3: To me the, the classic shot, of even him blowing the, the bubble gum.

SPEAKER 3: I, I just think that, that he was, he was the, the next big name and they put it on there. So for my number three, I have Jacob Warren Bowman.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, he, he didn't make, he didn't make my top four. He was on the cusp, he was on the bubble.

SPEAKER 4: So he's one of my honorable mentions, you know, they Bowman as we all know, pushed to, to, to the levels that they needed to be to survive where Bowman unfortunately, didn't, but it was that Bowman push that created the tops, that we know we knew from the fifties and, and, and present day. So we got to give some sort of credit, where credit's due.

SPEAKER 4: And so Bowman made an honorable mention, for, for me, I don't know, you know, if Doctor Jim wants to, to touch, I don't know if he's on his list or if he wants to talk about, Jacob Warn Bowman at all.

SPEAKER 5: Well, he's not on my list. I did not know him.

SPEAKER 5: He's kind of on my semifinalist list. I have, you know, some obvious elections. Then I have some finalists and then he's so, he's not in my top 20 which really hurts to say that because after you've said what you've said is, which is correct. I think he's certainly deserving of honor, but he doesn't. It in no way. Does he make my top four? Just because what happens?

SPEAKER 5: The Victors History is written by the winners. Fair Point. History is written written by the winners. So tops one and if you're gonna have Cy Berger on there, then tops one. So, 01 more thing is when we get through with this, I, I also have, I, I have two thoughts that are kind of that. I didn't tell you guys about one is what would the Mount Rushmore be for if it was done in 1975?

SPEAKER 3: Well, then I'Ll keep Warren Bowman on my list.

SPEAKER 5: So he could, he could come into that. But, and then the other is what would the Mount Rushmore be in 2050?

SPEAKER 5: In other words, in another 26 years?

SPEAKER 4: And I, I won't be here for that list, Dr Jim, you and Danny, you and Danny do a little, little like in Memoriam segment for me when you do that job.

SPEAKER 5: Well, then if you're, if you're not there, then you could qualify for being on Mount Rush for.

SPEAKER 4: But that's what I'm holding out. Hope for right there.

SPEAKER 5: That'll do it anyway. I have some aspirational ones for 20 50.

SPEAKER 4: All right. That's, that's fine. Whose turn is it?

SPEAKER 3: It's on to you John for number four.

SPEAKER 5: Well, no, number three, number three.

SPEAKER 4: I'm sorry, this will be my, this will be my third. This will be my third.

SPEAKER 4: This one was, I had to really think about this one and there was points where I honestly like, can I put this person on? And then I really said you, you almost have to, right. We all love the National Doctor Jim's been to everyone as I always keep saying, I've, I was kind of a late entrant to, to going to it and I love it now, you know, I'm gonna get to everyone.

SPEAKER 4: I'm able to go to from, from now on. And it's just a great event. I called the Super Bowl, the hobby. We circle the calendar, the week of that every year and look forward to it. It's become more than just a card show. It's an event, it's, it's event after the show.

SPEAKER 4: And, and this guy is really the one who we sort of owe tribute to the show existing and it, it would be, if the, if the National wasn't the event, we know it as we could not put this person on the list. But because the National is what we know it as it would almost be criminal not to have him on the list.

SPEAKER 4: So, my, my third one is this gentleman here, Mike Burke. We, the name, the main stage is, is named after him. He passed away, unfortunately, early at 69. But, you know, if you enjoy the National and you love that week as I do and, and thousands of others collectors do, This is really who you owe homage to to the event.

SPEAKER 4: And I know you knew him, Doctor Jim. So I'm definitely gonna acquiesce to, to, you know, your personal, you know, relationship with them and, and as someone who's been to every National, as I, as I constantly say, I, I have a feeling, you just have, you know, nice things to say.

SPEAKER 5: He, he was a close friend, a close friend. I, we got along great. He was, you know, we had different personalities but we, we were tracking together in so many, you know, steps along the way from the very first National. And, you know, I'd made trades with him back in the seventies. He was a, he was a great collector and just a, a wonderful guy.

SPEAKER 5: So I'm sad that he's not there. I, I do need to note that he was, he was one of the co-founders of the, of the National. In fact, early on first chair was Gavin Riley who was just a fabulous collector and a great guy. And then Steve Bruner was kind of kind of the, the, the quieter one. And then Mike was the one that was the, the, the mouthpiece for it.

SPEAKER 5: And Mike endured Gavin later kind of dropped out and Steve dropped out and Mike carried it on. And as you said, John just took it to, to, to great heights, based on his personal drive to make this hobby be the, as I say, the greatest hobby in the world. So he's very worthy. I have him in my top 10, but he's not, he's not, chiseled on my Mount Rushmore. Right.

SPEAKER 4: That surprised, I'm not gonna lie. That surprises me a little bit, a little bit. I almost didn't pick him because I thought you were gonna pick them for sure. And, but I, I mean, I had to in my form, but again, you know, you have a different perspective. You know, you've got to know many of these people that are probably on your list where, where I didn't. So that's probably a factor, as well too.

SPEAKER 5: Well, there, there's so many deserving people, but like I said, Gavin Riley was the initial prime mover for the National. And then, but, but all the, so he was the main communication in, in 1979 and 1980.

SPEAKER 5: But over time, Mike Burke just had a way with words and really, really took it to the next level. So, so it was a group effort and yet he was, he emerged as somebody who really by force of will made it into the, the, as Bobby baseball says that the kind of the Super Bowl, the hobby.

SPEAKER 3: Absolutely.

SPEAKER 3: But he's not on your form. Ok.

SPEAKER 5: My third, which will be very controversial is Hannes Wagner. I don't think we'd have the hobby we would have today without Hannes Wagner. He's not thought to be as outstanding of a player. Talk about somebody who gets no respect.

SPEAKER 5: Like Jefferson Burdick, he was probably the best player of his time. He was fast and strong and, you know, five tools and all that. And, and Pittsburgh was a, was a major place in those days if you go back more than 100 years.

SPEAKER 5: He was, he also is the subject of the very first, quest, the very first bounty. There was a bounty on Hannes Wagner, Tito six from back in the late sixties, early seventies. And it's the first bounty ever.

SPEAKER 5: And it was, I remember it being 250 then it got up to 1000 it got up to 1500 people thought who's the crazy? It, that was, that was putting up a bo bounty and it was a guy who was not crazy but was out in front of a lot of issues. And that was Charlie Brooks in Detroit.

SPEAKER 5: They're asking where the Hall Of Fame could be in those days in the, in the sixties and seventies, Detroit was a legitimate epicenter. I mean, there was stuff on the west coast, there was stuff in New York but Detroit was, was very strong with, with, and it was one of the first.

SPEAKER 5: So, so anyway, so sport hobbyist is what Charlie Brooks said. He's not. Charlie's not on there. But I'm just, just to be a contrary, I don't think we'd have the hobby. We, we have now without Hans Wagner and his objection perhaps to being, exploited, in the, by American tobacco.

SPEAKER 4: Definitely thinking outside the box. I mean, I, and I, that's what I love about it, Dr Jim and, and the comments in the chat room echo that too. Right. But it's a great point. That card, that player.

SPEAKER 4: We talk about it, you know, it's over 100 years ago and we still talk about that card. You think it came out yesterday? The, the way it's, it's still in, in conversations and how it created, like you said, the hobby we, we have.

SPEAKER 4: So it didn't make my list. I won't argue it because every, everything you said is, is correct, Doctor Jim. That's that's the beauty with these lists is, it's, it's all subjective. But, I, I can't make any counter, ar arguments to that and I love it.

SPEAKER 5: I, if there'd been a, if, if the Mount Rushmore were, were to be established in 1975 he would, he would be on there in that sense because a lot of the people we're gonna talk about had their heyday after that time. But I, I'm telling you when I was getting very involved in the hobby in the early seventies, that was the card.

SPEAKER 5: And it's amazing. It still is the card. It's, it's the only card. I mean, to think about it. I mean, Mickey Mantle and Michael Jordan and Tom Brady also, but Hannes Wagner back in the, in the, in the mid seventies at some of the big shows where all the big collectors were there.

SPEAKER 5: They could literally name every Wagner who hadn't and it was about 50 that were known at that time and they knew who had them. That's how strong the mystique was for that card. And it, it wasn't, you know, you know, you know, Eddie Plank or, or Sherry mcgee or one of these other T 206 rarities, Ray Demet, it's Hannas Wagner who at that time was the best player in baseball.

SPEAKER 4: Can you point to yours behind you?

SPEAKER 5: That's, that's an un Mensch like comment, men say stuff like that to each other.

SPEAKER 3: I got a different question, Doctor Beckett, you mentioned one of the greatest players ever. Is there a little bit of Pittsburgh favoritism in there?

SPEAKER 5: Zero zero.

SPEAKER 3: Ok. Ok. I just want, I just want to clarify. I wanted, I wanted to make sure that the audience and.

SPEAKER 5: Just to be clear, I never Met honest.

SPEAKER 3: W yeah, how often watching him play?

SPEAKER 3: A couple of people are making the comment.

SPEAKER 3: People have passed down their Mantle of their children remain strong.

SPEAKER 3: There's some truth there talking about, I think New York and Mantle.

SPEAKER 3: I'd say both Wagner and Mantle but of course, ho came first or Hanna the first chase card, I guess without a doubt. And Hammer and Hank says Dr B smoke very funny. On the tobacco card, we are a punny group with, with Wagner.

SPEAKER 3: That is hysterical.

SPEAKER 3: Ok. So where are we on the list? Are we on number four? Number four? Ok. Well, I know John and I have the same one here.

SPEAKER 3: John, you muted yourself.

SPEAKER 4: Or I don't have a slide Danny for this next one on my list because the we got the, we got the, the best thing we have a, a movie of slide motion and you know, I always introduce him as the man that needs no introduction.

SPEAKER 4: And I, I whether he, you know, Doctor J on this episode or not, my pick would not be any different. It just happens. We're, we're fortunate and blessed to have him on the show with us. We work with him on Hobby Hotline.

SPEAKER 4: I'm glad to call him a friend.

SPEAKER 4: I've called him a hobby icon, when I've introduced him. So he's on my Mount Rushmore and that's Doctor James Beckett. So we don't have a, we don't have a still photo but we don't need a still photo.

SPEAKER 4: Again, when we talk about people, when we talk about people who, you know, why, how are we here? Right? How did we get here?

SPEAKER 4: This gentleman is, is on that list and you know, I, he, he might not agree with me. I don't know. But he makes my list. I know he made yours, Danny. And again, this has nothing to do with knowing him personally or him being on the show.

SPEAKER 4: This, this is just how it's gotta be for me and you know, when we talk about cops and, and things like that. Now, he, he, he, you know, we talked about catalog and he had almanacs. But even before the Beckett Price Guides that are so famous to this day. And so, when I came up with my form, Doctor Doctor Jim was on that list.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Doctor Beckett, a little bit awkward to talk about you when you're here. So, I'm glad you're alive and with us, to, to hear it though. Out of all the people on the list, I gotta tell you, I'm the youngest one on the screen right now.

SPEAKER 3: And growing up it was, it was your magazines.

SPEAKER 3: I was a dealer starting, you know, I, I in my teens and it was the Up Arrow and the Down Arrow, created a lot of, happiness or sorrow and a lot of mall and VFW card shows for a teenage Danny. And, every magazine, eee every, every, every time they would come out, I really grew up on it.

SPEAKER 3: So, so to, exclude you from the list of what the hobby has done for me and the people that have impacted the hobby on me. Ii, I couldn't exclude you. Doctor Beckett. Pro Proud to know. You're glad to have you on here. And, thank you for what you've done for the hobby.

SPEAKER 4: And I wanna add something too. You know, I'm trying to make Doctor Jim cry. I don't know if I'm gonna be successful tonight.

SPEAKER 4: But, but listen, you know, when you sold Beckett, you could have rode off into the sunset and, and you didn't because you love and you have a passion for, as you say, the greatest hobby in the world you're still making contributions with, you know, with your podcast being at the National in, at the National every year interacting with people, before I knew you, I've said this to you, directly, I'Ll say it, where everyone else can hear it before I Met you for the first time.

SPEAKER 4: Or got to know you what I thought you'd be like and how down to earth you are, was completely two different things. You're a humble man, you know, a person of faith and, and an inspiration for me to try to be a better hobbyist, a better person. And, and like I said, you could, you don't have to be active.

SPEAKER 4: You, you've made your contributions and yet you're still doing it here in 2024. And that says a lot of doubt the man and, and the person you are. And so this was very easy for me to, to put you on this list that has nothing to do with knowing you or being here. It just has to be, that way we were also paid off by the singles club.

SPEAKER 4: I like that. That's funny but not true. But it's funny. So, Doctor Beckham, you're, you're our number four.

SPEAKER 5: So, what, what is a mech supposed to say to all that? Just I guess, just say thank you. I, I appreciate that those kind words and, but I, I'm not ready for Mount Rushmore or even for consideration because I think I've still got more, more more to go. So we'll see.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I don't think you're falling off it but, but I appreciate that.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, you, you.

SPEAKER 3: You, you can pull whatever you want.

SPEAKER 3: All right, here's your number four, Doctor Beckett.

SPEAKER 5: You guys are gonna kill me for this.

SPEAKER 5: And then don't tell people after you tell me about this humility and everything. I, I actually stopped at three and then I have finalists because after, you know, I, I really had two that were just slam dunks.

SPEAKER 5: Like I said, Mike Burke was in my top 10 but not, and Hans Wagner, you know, I, I, you're talking but AAA player and a, and a card that has gotten a lot of recognition but could even get more. That was, that was the, that was the quest. So, and then, so I just stopped at three and then I made this big long list of people that are, some of whom are extremely deserving.

SPEAKER 5: And, but it's, it's hard to just, it kind of depends on which, how you hobby, how you appreciate some of the things they did. But they were, they were amazing. And then, and then I have some aspirational ones for a kind of a 2050 approach to. Yeah.

SPEAKER 5: And you want, you want me standing here, Mookie? You better be careful there.

SPEAKER 5: Wow.

SPEAKER 4: So how about, how about we do this? I'Ll mention I have three honorable mentions. I'Ll mention them kind of quickly and then we can, we can go over that extended Doctor Jim list if he doesn't mind doing that.

SPEAKER 3: And I've got a couple of honorable mentions of him.

SPEAKER 3: All right.

SPEAKER 5: Thank you. I'Ll do that in that order and then I'Ll give you all mine because there's some really worthy people that.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, that's the thing when you do list. Right. You know, that's the bad thing about list is, you know, your, your chances are you might leave someone off or someone's feelings, can, can, you know, get hurt. So, you know, that my controversial honorable mention is, is Mr M. Alan Rosen.

SPEAKER 4: I know a lot of people aren't fond of him or his bedside manner, but, you know, he was critical to the hobby. We know today this is the guy that some of the things he did when he did are still, we see more, it's more commonplace now. And I think a lot of that is to him.

SPEAKER 4: So Mr Mint, was one of my three Jacob Warren Bowman, as I mentioned before, didn't make my top four, but he was an honorable mention. And, we talked about him already. He's this year's winner of the, Jefferson Burdick Award from Saber. And that's, Dick Perez for me. And I wrote an article about this growing up in Brooklyn. I was a tops kid. I could care less.

SPEAKER 4: Originally when when Don Ross first came out, but it was his Diamond Kings that made me like, turn my head and say, what is this? And there's something else besides tops. That's sort of interesting. And I've told this, I have the privilege to get to tell him that and interview him and, and have them on and meet him in person.

SPEAKER 4: So f for me, he makes my honorable mention list just to the fact that he turned me on to something other named, not tops when it comes to, to sports cards and, and baseball cards. So those are my three honorable mentions. Danny. I don't know, you go ahead with, I don't know if you have any similar ones or, or, or in addition to this, but go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I, I wanted to touch on it and Doctor Beckett expanded a little bit but John, you're Mike Berger's choice. I had as a honorable mention but I had the, the entire crew that started the National.

SPEAKER 3: Because, because I know it with, without that group, it, it might not have ever got off the ground for Mike Burges to put the accelerant on it over the years.

SPEAKER 3: But to me, the, the National would also answer the question of where the geographic center of the hobby, wherever the National is. That's the geographic center of the hobby and, and, and the power of the National has just become so strong.

SPEAKER 3: For people who love to collect, even if you don't go, I mean, the numbers of the prices on cards across the hobby rise around the National, downloads on podcasts go up around the National. People just are, are much more into the hobby and that's all from the buzz surrounding Our Super Bowl.

SPEAKER 5: So, for you, yeah, you're saying Atlantic City?

SPEAKER 4: Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: You backed me into a corner on that one. No, I how about inside the building? Not Atlantic City but inside the building.

SPEAKER 4: Listen, I'Ll take Atlantic City. I can drive there. My wife likes it. She goes to the beach. So and when she travels, I've talked about this on my show when she goes, my bill gets cut in half because it comes out of that joint account. So Atlantic City every year I know people are, are cringing. Hear me say that but well.

SPEAKER 5: If you want a Hall Of Fame that's gonna be or, or or a Mount Rushmore that's gonna be not visited after dark.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, really?

SPEAKER 3: And really probably not even afternoon we got.

SPEAKER 3: That was the big, that was the big one that I had on my I just thought that, that, that Mike be in that group deserved. Mention Dick Perez. I respect completely what everybody is saying. I think it's one of the first insult insert sets that, that has resonated still to this time.

SPEAKER 3: You know, not, not every insert set has still resonated. And Diamond Kings are one of the few that are, that are avidly collected by so many people to this day.

SPEAKER 3: But I didn't make my list but, but honorable mention as well.

SPEAKER 3: And then the only other thing I'd like to throw in there is, whoever created hobby. Social media. I don't know if it was one person but social media has changed the hobby.

SPEAKER 3: And I, I couldn't figure out how to put a person on there, but it, it is certainly a part of the hobby differently than when I grew up and, and, you know, it's, it's, it's a real part of what we do now.

SPEAKER 5: So, you're saying, Mark Zuckerberg, Eli, I wasn't gonna name any specific name, Dr Beckett in the Internet.

SPEAKER 4: I believe so.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I, I wasn't, I wasn't going to get into that any more than I was gonna ask Dr Beckett to show cars from the wall.

SPEAKER 3: All right. So that, those were my, those were my, honorable mentions. So, I think.

SPEAKER 5: Ok, I, I've got a list, I'Ll go through them. I'Ll do, try to do it pretty quick. I mean, II, I, you know, I believe in a small Hall Of Fame and so maybe I believe in a small Mount Rushmore or something. But, you know, if it were more than four, it wouldn't be a big deal to me because I, I it really gets tricky with because there's so many deserving people. And like I said, I, I think it depends on the, the time reference.

SPEAKER 5: If you in 1975 it would have been different than 4024. And I'd be, been looked at where I think it could be in 2050. And I'm hoping, a couple of guys especially do, do great things to where they're. But, you know, with Mount Rushmore it's permanent, you can't chisel out George Washington and put somebody else in there. It's, I guess you can make a new one.

SPEAKER 5: I had Rob Vas on my, you know, and one of the things that it's that I really admire about him, aside from having the kind of the pre eminent card shop is he's been, he's been able to pretty successfully have a generational transfer from his dad being involved somewhat, but mainly him and then bringing Ryan his son in. So a lot of admiration for what he's done.

SPEAKER 5: It's not luck. It's hard work and a lot of vision and it's, it's the place where people need to go. If they're only gonna go to one card shop. And that's again in 75 he wouldn't have been on it by 2000 by now. He's, he is, he is a go to guy. So, ok, that's one, the other one and this hasn't come up. But if I put in Hannas Wagner, I can't really put in Mickey Mantle, but Mickey Mantle would be the other player.

SPEAKER 5: Very iconic. Again, if you wanted to draw people, have people come to the, to the Mount Rushmore put Mickey on there would get all the baby boomers to come and all the people of a certain age. So Mickey Mantle again, it's, it's, it's, it's the card of the, of the modern of, of the not ultramodern but of the, of the modern age.

SPEAKER 5: Let's see, Frank N I think would have been on if it would be in 1975. He was kind of the pre eminent collector out of Detroit. He was the guy that, you know, when IW when I was getting ready to do price guides, he had so much wisdom about which he had all the cards pretty much. He had the probably the best collection in the world.

SPEAKER 5: And but he knew what was tough and what wasn't that was really and very helpful to me. He was like a auto worker, but he had, he had just, he was just really an amazing guy. So I did a podcast about him but I, I don't think he makes it now just because he's been gone for a long time. But he was, he was I think he was kind of a mitch, you know, in a certain way. Jeff Rosenberg is not gonna make it.

SPEAKER 5: But he's one of my finalists just because he's at an enduring, he is, he's given his heart and soul to the hobby he's done. He's produced, cards. He's, he's handled the autograph stuff. He's done shows and, and through it all, he's done it with class and, again, a lot of respect for him. I don't think he makes it to the mountain but he's, he's, he's very honorable, honorable mention.

SPEAKER 5: I have Brian Gray as a finalist and, you know, I've been talking to him lately. I got him on my podcast and, basically his goal, I mean, he's driven and even though sold leaf, his goal is to continue to make an impact in this hobby.

SPEAKER 5: And so if there's a 2050 you know, I'm hoping he makes it because if he makes it, that means he's taken his creativity, in a different direction and, and, and done some amazing things. So I'm, I'm hoping he makes it, right now he doesn't make it, but he's, he's, he's honorable mention at this point.

SPEAKER 5: Jeff Wilson, another controversial one.

SPEAKER 5: Not for now. He doesn't make it now for sure. But in 2050 if his card shop has really taken off, like he hopes it will and his, he, he's doing, pricing and, and media and all this stuff, he's, he's super entrepreneurial. And if, if he's, if he continues at the same rate. He's gone in the last five years. He could be on the Mount Rushmore if it's done in 2040 or 2050.

SPEAKER 5: Kit Young, probably if it, if it had been done in 2000, he'd be on there that the Kit Young Summit in Hawaii. He didn't found it but he kind of shaped it from early on and that was, instrumental in bringing the hobby and, and bringing the manufacturers and the dealers and the collectors together all in one room.

SPEAKER 5: It didn't have happened before that. It happened there before it happened at the National and it was because of K's, persuasive, abilities to, to really, who doesn't want to go to Hawaii in February.

SPEAKER 5: But still, he, he got the right people in the room or in the, in the area and, and, and, and that was fabulous and again, he did it because he cared. He doesn't, he, he's, he's, plenty wealthy. But he's, he, he believes in the hobby and he really would help take the next level. Another controversial one.

SPEAKER 5: Barry Halper again, if you did it back in the nineties or something like that part, owner of the Yankees, he's passed away now that at one point probably the best collection as well. And, much of that went into auction and I, I knew him and he, he probably would wanna be he, he probably was a Mensch in, in a sense as well.

SPEAKER 5: So, you know, I, for some people, if they ever went to his house, they would say, yeah, this Mount Rushmore is in his house with his dry cleaning rack of, uniforms from every hall of Famer.

SPEAKER 5: Another controversial one. Ken Golden. This is more out. I, I don't have him on now, but if he keeps going, he's either gonna burn out. He's gonna flame out or he's gonna take over the world because he's, he is extremely driven and, he's, successfully, bridged the gap into a TV show, Golden Touch and Auctions and, and, and there's more than he wants to.

SPEAKER 5: He's been a card manufacturer. And so in 2050 if there's a re evaluation, and if he's been going at the same speed that he's been going the last couple of decades because he's, he's done a lot and he's not that old. He's, he's quite a bit younger than me. So he's got more to go and we'll see.

SPEAKER 5: Richard Mcwilliam is a finalist again if he'd live longer. I mean, just for the thought of having the vision to not the vision was not just a buy to create upper deck and be the business mind behind it. It was also the business mind to take out your partners and you didn't kill them.

SPEAKER 5: He, he, he acquired the company, at a, at a strategic point. He believed in it more than anybody else. And that was, that he, he bet, he bet big on our hobby. And that's, that's worthy of respect. And it's disappointing. He's not around.

SPEAKER 5: His family is still in the ownership seat for the, for the, for upper deck. But upper deck took, took this industry to another level. Michael Ruben, if Michael Ruben is not on the Mount Rushmore of 2050 then that's a problem because if somebody can 10 X this hobby, they deserve to be, I don't know, they could have their own Mount Rushmore if he really 10 X is the hobby.

SPEAKER 5: And I hope he does without messing it up. But I'm hoping that in 2050 we are defying, Michael Ruben as a visionary who put his money where his mouth was, put other people's money where his mouth was, you know, figured out a way to, to get this done.

SPEAKER 5: And I, I hope he does it and I hope he does it. But, next I have and, and like next I have Mike Esin. Again, he's been a card manufacturer. He's been a show promoter. He's been, he's, he's done so many different things and, he's in.

SPEAKER 3: The comments mentioned him earlier.

SPEAKER 5: It would have been earlier in the, you know, in the seventies, you know, or, or the early eighties. Absolutely. I mean, now he's like you say John, if you're, the older guys are usually forgotten.

SPEAKER 5: Another controversial one but certainly worthy, but this would have been only AAA Mount Rushmore for the period of 1988 to 1993. And that is led Denny and again, because of his size, he would need to take up two spots. Ok.

SPEAKER 5: Now he pass away but he was large and in charge and he sing, talk about he 100 Xed the football card and, and maybe 10 X hockey, but he 100 Xed football. He put football on the map just by his, promotion and going, to New York and talking these, you know, the players in the leagues into giving him a shot.

SPEAKER 5: And, and that's, again, I don't think he makes the, the, the, the mountain, but he's, certainly worthy remember Mike Kramer is one of my, again, you got a guy that had millions of cards before he started a card company.

SPEAKER 5: He started a card company. And the other thing I like about Mike besides being a good friend is that he exited honorably, you know, he, he didn't, I think he got a bad deal. He didn't make a big deal about it. He just quietly, sold the brand and he wasn't bankrupt or anything.

SPEAKER 5: He had plenty of money. He walked away. And, and so I, I, and, you know, he's had some health challenges which I think he's, he's turned the corner on. So I'm very, very pleased about that. So he's worthy of it. I don't know that he makes it, but he's worthy.

SPEAKER 5: Larry Fritch, his name's already come up, but Larry Fritch would really be, there was one period there when all you found were the only access you had to cards was sporting names and, and Larry Fritz was the man and then I've been up to his, he has like when I talk about the seven wonders of the collecting world, that was one of them going to his going to his barn.

SPEAKER 5: Unbelievable. Just millions of cards sitting out there in an un air, air conditioned barn. Was amazing. Only got two more.

SPEAKER 5: Mr Mint, obviously, you know, he'd be my top 10.

SPEAKER 5: Again, there was a period there where he was the face of the hobby. So maybe we don't want to put him on Mount Rushmore, but he would want to be on Mount Rushmore. In fact, he would insist. In fact, he would not be willing to be on Mount Rushmore unless he was in the first thing that you saw.

SPEAKER 4: And if you didn't put him on, he'd just make his own Mount Rushmore.

SPEAKER 5: He would, no, he would not, he would not come to a card show unless he got table number one. And that was his, his statement, Dick Perez getting very worthy, but I have his vote split with Frank Steele who was I was a lot closer with Frank and Frank was the vision. Dick was really the skill. Wow.

SPEAKER 5: I mean, just amazing, prolific artist, sports artist, but artist here. And then lastly, my last one that I hope may it for 2050 because if he does, it would have meant even though he's a kind of a quasi competitor of my old company, but Nat Turner, I'm very hopeful that Nat Turner would have done enough by 2050 that people are saying that guy needs to be on Mount Rushmore.

SPEAKER 5: In fact, Michael Ruben and Nat Turner are, they are kind of the, the, the leaders of the two biggest brands or entities or conglomerates in our industry and if they do well, and really lead and not follow but lead, then that'd be great.

SPEAKER 5: So I guess what I'm saying, guys, it's premature. Number one, you can't put me on there because I'm alive and some of these and, and I think things are gonna keep, keep happening.

SPEAKER 3: Marshall Fogel, The question just came up.

SPEAKER 3: Great collection.

SPEAKER 3: I don't know. Doctor Beckett, what do you think about Marshall?

SPEAKER 5: He's very worthy. I mean, I, I, he's a great spokesman for the hobby.

SPEAKER 5: If this is, you know, I'm sports card insights and there's a sports collectibles and memorabilia and all that stuff. If it's memorabilia and cards, he, he moves up many notches. Maybe he makes, maybe makes the mountain. But he's, he's, he's, equally memorabilia to cards. In fact, I think he's very selective on cards and has a fab fabulous memorabilia. But he'd be certainly worthy. I don't think he, yeah.

SPEAKER 3: I don't think he'll own a card on an eight.

SPEAKER 4: That's, yeah, that's correct. Nothing, nothing great and lower than eight. Or he doesn't consider it so nice guy. Like I had, I got to know him.

SPEAKER 5: Oh, yeah, he's a great guy and he's a great spokesman for our industry and he's generously loaned out these, these fabulous pristine types of things that are, that are just millions of dollars. His, his one card that's worth more than most people's collections for sure.

SPEAKER 4: I gotta add this in because this is one of the most amazing facts about him. He was in a tank battalion at the age of 63. I'm 51. So 12 years from now, I, I probably couldn't even climb up into a tank today, let alone 12 years from now. He did it at age 63 for, I think, two years, at least a year.

SPEAKER 5: That's insane. I've, I've actually been in a tank myself when I was in the army and I'm just telling you if, if the, the big guns don't get your ears, the tanks will because it's, it's, it's very, it's miserable. It's miserable being in a tank. It's the opposite of shock absorbers. In fact, you are the shock absorber.

SPEAKER 3: John, I would pay to watch you get into a tank.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, I would try it. I just have paramedics just have paramedics standing by.

SPEAKER 3: Ruben says John, you are a tank, man.

SPEAKER 4: That's probably the closest I'Ll get to being in a tank is being one myself. Doctor Beckett.

SPEAKER 3: Real quick, Barry has asked a lot of great questions about your magazine and for you, I don't know if you know this, how many issues of, of Beckett are there? You mean how many different titles or how many, how many, how many issues of the baseball magazine have there been? I have no idea.

SPEAKER 5: I, I think it was if you buy the current one that I'Ll tell you on usually, we, we were up when I sold out, we were in the 200 but, you know, 12 a year times whatever. That's been 40 wait a minute, 40 years.

SPEAKER 5: So we, we had actually did 10 or 11, some of the early years because we did a double issue for some of the winter months. But so, so that, that's pitch, that's clo closing in on five, on 504 80 or 470 something. Wow. Well, that's, and then there was different numberings. You know, we had alternate covers and we had.

SPEAKER 4: Well, I gotta say, I love the list. You didn't, you didn't care. Like you said, some are definitely controversial. We saw some comments in the chat room with, with some of those names mentioned. There's one gentleman you mentioned, like if he would be on his own Mount Rushmore, out, you know, Mr Mint would, if he wasn't on it would just make his own and put himself in the first slot.

SPEAKER 4: There a as you said, and, but you know, sometimes whether you like or not like a person, right? We still have to respect what they brought to the table and you gotta sort of put that opinion aside and give sort of credit where it's due and, and, you know, I think you did that with, with that list, it'll be interesting. I don't know if I'Ll be around. Probably not, but we'll see, you know, where it goes. And well, a.

SPEAKER 5: Again with Mount Rushmore, my, my sense is that Mount Rushmore was determined probably by Congress. I mean, I don't think there was a popular vote of who should be on there and I don't think the sculptor or the whatever it was, you know, said, I, I wanna do these are interesting profiles.

SPEAKER 5: I'm gonna do those. I, I think there probably was some congressional, it's like being on a stamp. You know, if you, you passed away, you've made great contributions and you're gonna be selected for this honor.

SPEAKER 4: So, so, and a funny, you know, when I made my list of four. And obviously, I, I just made like you said, Doctor Jim, I made a list of like 10 people and then narrowed it down to four to my final four. What is it with? The last name would be right? You got Jefferson, my four, Jefferson Burdick, Doctor James Beckett, Cy Berger and Mike Burke.

SPEAKER 3: And I had one in his mind.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, Danny.

SPEAKER 4: Danny.

SPEAKER 3: And I'm a little insulted. I gotta tell you, Doctor Beckett, you named 243 people. And I didn't make the list.

SPEAKER 5: You can make for if, if Hobby News Daily is going strong in 2015, you really have a good chance.

SPEAKER 3: Well, you know, that's a good reminder for anybody who's watching tomorrow night is our one year anniversary show of Hobby News Daily. So, tuning.

SPEAKER 5: All right. That'd be 6000 episodes, I guess. 250 a year times, 24 years.

SPEAKER 3: Adam Palmer all the time.

SPEAKER 5: Well, he can fill them up.

SPEAKER 3: All right. Well, John, do you have anybody else on your list?

SPEAKER 4: No, I mean, a lot of, you know, Mike Kramer, we're hearing Doctor Jim talk about Mike Kramer and I've gotten to know him in the, in the last couple of years on, on a more personal level. I've talked about the innovation Pacific brought, to the hobby. That was a little bit. I don't know if Doctor Jim Ogre or, or you, Danny was a little bit ahead of its time.

SPEAKER 4: And, he was doing his own, you know, he was, like he said to me, I was making stuff that I like because I, I like it as a collector. I felt like, you know, other people would enjoy it too. That was my litmus test. And, this is a guy that worked, doing one of the most dangerous jobs in, in industry, working on a, a crab fishing, boat, in Alaska.

SPEAKER 4: And we even to this day with all the money he does, this was in the, the late sixties, seventies for the technologies we have today. People still lose their life doing that job. And he was, he was doing that to fund what eventually would become, Pacific trading cards.

SPEAKER 4: And, you know, he's a really modest guy like he doesn't, you know, he reminds me of Doctor Jim in a way where he does. I don't think he gives himself enough credit for, for what he's brought, to the hobby. So hearing Doctor Jim mentioned him, I obviously nodded my head in agreement and I felt a little bad that I, I kind of left him off.

SPEAKER 4: Even my list of Kenny probably, should be. And I would put him probably ahead of, in, in hindsight, I would move him ahead of, of, you know, Mr Met, I just was, you know, a brain lapse on, on my part when, when coming up with that, that list of 10. But, very worthy. And again, for, you know, that's the thing with list.

SPEAKER 4: Right. We had their, their individual opinions that that's the beauty of them and, and, and not everyone's gonna agree with, with everyone. I know some of the, the, the candidates you mentioned. Doctor Jim brought out some boo birds in the chat room, but I, I appreciate you for like, hey, let's you don't have to like this person, but let's not ignore what they've done in their career, right?

SPEAKER 4: That's not fair to them and, and I appreciate that fact and, and even mentioning like some in the future, hey, if things trend along the way they're going and continue that way, we have to look at those folks a as potential there and, and I love that you mentioned some guys that would have made it, have we done this list, you know, 50 years ago, 40 years ago.

SPEAKER 4: Ii I, you know, you always give people their, their proper credit and that says a lot about you as well. So, you know, it, it's, it's great. You're always gonna leave someone off.

SPEAKER 4: I'm like, I'm I dropped the ball with, with Mike Kramer, not intentionally, but hearing you kind of mentioned him, reminded me like, whoops, you know, on my, on my part. So, you know, definitely, you know, we could have made a longer list, but I was just going off the, the, the Mount Rushmore for people. So that's where if.

SPEAKER 5: Everybody read Mike Kramer's book that came out last fall, they would probably vote for him. If there was such a thing they would say. Wow, I had no idea because I've known him pretty well from the beginning and I learned some things that were going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER 5: I mean, I, I had regular interactions with him but he, he just, that was really cool to read the book and fill in some of the gaps and it's, it's all good as a guy that really was dedicated to a hard worker and kind of self taught a lot of mind here.

SPEAKER 4: It's smart buying, buying cops over stocks item when no one else sort of wanted them. He kind of saw ahead again, he saw the writing on the wall when no one else could read it and became who he was because of that. Insights and smarts and, and again, Pacific, I don't think that brand and, and, and Kramer himself get sometimes enough credit for.

SPEAKER 4: I, I know they weren't around super long time but they brought a lot of innovation to the hobby. And, you know, and even in his book, Doctor Jim, which is a great book, Kramer's Choice, highly recommended, you know, even that he was very modest in how he, he, he did his own book.

SPEAKER 4: And, it's a, it's a great read. I think it took me. I'm not a voracious reader. I think I had that thing done in, in two days and, was, you know, I knew a lot about them but like you said, there was stuff in that book. I had no idea until I read it.

SPEAKER 3: So, and I wanted to Mark this earlier. This cracked me up. Ruben said, whoever invented penny sleeves and top letters, that guy needs to be on Mount Rushmore. So, well, it wasn't.

SPEAKER 5: Well, that, that it could have been Ultra Pro. I mean, I used to be, yeah, that it's possible Ultra Pro was involved in some of those things. They were one of the early supplies, makers. Yeah. Ii, I, I'm not sure about that but that, that'd be my guess.

SPEAKER 3: Well, for the impact on the hobby, it's hard to imagine anything being more than a penny sleeve.

SPEAKER 3: It's kind of kind of a good one.

SPEAKER 3: All right.

SPEAKER 3: I just want to give a quick shout out to the stadium and show, stadium insurance, one of our sponsors. Thanks for supporting us. And if you're looking to, you know, insure your collection. Stadium insurance.com. All right.

SPEAKER 3: Stu Stu says, replaced rubber band.

SPEAKER 4: Yes, I love, I love this comment. Mookie never fails to deliver. So, he said, I hope you took it out the story. Sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER 4: Doctor B is in my final four. John and Danny can face off in the play in game for Spot six.

SPEAKER 5: That is truly March madness.

SPEAKER 3: It's your h.

SPEAKER 4: Right there, Doctor Beckett. Yeah. A couple of people earlier mentioned even selling platforms like ebay was a game changer.

SPEAKER 4: I agree. You know, whether you, you know, I've, I've, I say ebay is a blessing and a curse. But again, you can't argue with their impact on, on the hobby. I can I live it firsthand.

SPEAKER 4: They, they came about during my store days and it changed my perspective on being in the store and what I was able to do and kind of getting out of the store and just kind of touring and doing during shows. So ebay is definitely, you know, I was thinking more on a, with, with actual people, but when we're talking about things like that for sure.

SPEAKER 4: You can't argue with the, the ebay. Someone mentioned that I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was, but they did mention ebay.

SPEAKER 3: So a couple of people definitely did. And one thing that I think we've already answered, I wanted to try to answer this for Barry was the first autograph to be included in the pack. Wasn't that the Nolan Ryan insert or the Reggie Jackson? There was a Reggie Jackson upper deck Reggie, I think.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah, that's the upper. And again, you know, you mentioned that's why I want to bring it up. Yeah, Richard mcwilliams, I know there's some con, you know, he's a controversial figure, but up until that point, right, upper deck became a game changer much like Pacific did in their heyday. And so, you know, again, we gotta give credit for the contributions, right? And even though something happened later on that came to light.

SPEAKER 5: It's stood the test of time. Like Mike, he, he wasn't highly regarded when he was doing these things. It's only in hindsight, we look back and then, wow, that guy had so many innova inno innovations and entrepreneurial energy and did a lot more right than wrong.

SPEAKER 5: But he, his brands were not respected that much when they were, when, when they were coming out, he was in fourth place or whatever place there was, he was and, and the, the leagues were not happy with him.

SPEAKER 5: But he didn't overproduce, he, he was quality minded. So, so I think like I said, why I'm looking at the time aspect of it is that you need some time to see the body of work. And like Dick Perez, you've seen 40 years of, of, of, of excellence.

SPEAKER 5: And so that, that's enough to look back and say so it's like the regular Hall Of The Baseball Hall Of Fame is that you, you, you wanna have enduring excellence. Not just, you know, again, I, I'd put Dale Murphy and Roger Marris in probably 22 mvps in a row is unbelievable.

SPEAKER 5: But if you only have five or seven or eight years of, of great playing then and you stay too long, maybe that's a message for me. I'd better not stay too long.

SPEAKER 5: Damage, it damaged his legacy.

SPEAKER 4: Yeah. No. We got a vote for YouTube, YouTube has made the hobby a much smaller, place, even though the hobby is a big thing. Across the world, YouTube has made it feel more intimate. And so I, I wouldn't argue YouTube, as well, like you said, Danny, social media. Right. In general, we can, we can kind of just put it in that sort of, just one category of social media and, and content.

SPEAKER 4: What made the, you know, it's made the hobby world a, a very intimate and smaller place. And, I think that's, I think that's, overall, I think it's a positive, there's probably some negatives in there. But I think the, the good outweighs the bad there.

SPEAKER 5: I think a Mount Rushmore concept though is not good, slightly outweighing the bad or there needs to be not pretty much bad.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: So that, that there should be the small hall inside the hall. I think so.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, that's what it's like. That's why. And so I have a, I have a, I have a, a foyer full of worthy people that don't have to buy a ticket to get in. But they're, they're not gonna be on the mountain. But they, if it was a big mountain, they could be on that mountain.

SPEAKER 4: Well, here's the Candacy I can get, be, get behind. Barry. Barry says, Doctor James, president, Doctor James Becker for President 2024. Do you wanna take this show to officially announce that you're running?

SPEAKER 5: My platform is to 10 X.

SPEAKER 3: The hobby to 11 X, you got to 11.

SPEAKER 4: I would vote for you. I don't want to make it, but I would vote for you probably over what we probably will have to vote for. So I, I.

SPEAKER 5: I'm not that much younger than those guys. That's, yeah, I.

SPEAKER 4: I, yeah, you might have more. I, I want, I, I'Ll say this more. Certainly. I think you have your faculties a lot more than those, those gentlemen do. I'Ll say that.

SPEAKER 3: I think we've lost, like the ground. This is Barry Barry's first episode. He said, and I think we're giving him a ride for his money tonight.

SPEAKER 3: Real quick, Mookie. When Mount Rushmore was finished, we were on the 32nd president. That means one out of eight presidents were represented on the mountain. So when we talk about small hall or, or a big hall.

SPEAKER 5: Yeah, so and dated. It's dated. So now you look back. Why is that guy on there? But I, like I said, I still come back to Jefferson bed and Cyber for the end of time.

SPEAKER 3: Those guys are gonna be on there and we'll come back in 2050 do an update show.

SPEAKER 4: I'Ll be watching from, hopefully from above. I'Ll be with you in Spirit Day.

SPEAKER 3: Hear yourself then, then I'Ll, I'Ll, I'Ll do it by myself.

SPEAKER 3: All right. We're gonna wind it up, here.

SPEAKER 3: Unless you have anything else to add, Doctor Beckett or Jones.

SPEAKER 5: Thanks guys. Good topic and great participation from Mookie Bery Ruben, etcetera.

SPEAKER 4: We, I always say that Doctor Jim, I don't know if you listen to it on audio for, we have the best like live chat room like some of the, some of the comedy and comments.

SPEAKER 4: It's just great. So we, you know, I'm biased but we have the best chat room. Going.

SPEAKER 3: All right, Doctor Beckett. Thank you very much John. Say, say good night, John. Good night, John. See you guys.