Card Mensches E13 Fanatics/PWCC Fallout

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SPEAKER 2: Hello, welcome to another episode of Hobby. What are we on here?

SPEAKER 2: Card? Menes? See, I did it. I did it this week too.

SPEAKER 2: Welcome to the 13th episode of cards.

SPEAKER 2: I'm Danny. That's Sean. And how are you doing tonight?

SPEAKER 3: And you forgot the opening.

SPEAKER 2: I absolutely did. Let's play it anyway. All right, it's too much fun.

SPEAKER 2: Hey, I'm Danny.

SPEAKER 3: Black and I'm John Newman.

SPEAKER 2: Welcome to Car Men.

SPEAKER 2: Hi, I'm Danny Black and welcome to episode 13 of Card Mens.

SPEAKER 2: That's John Newman. And if you haven't been watching, that's a good thing. You know, John.

SPEAKER 3: I'm doing good. We got to fire the guys in charge of running the opening. That's, that's two weeks in a row. They forgot to hit the button. It's not us. We have producers in the back room.

SPEAKER 2: Skip, you're fired. Skip.

SPEAKER 3: Skip Fire is his name. No relation to the baseball player.

SPEAKER 2: Boom.

SPEAKER 2: Shaka.

SPEAKER 2: So what's going on? How's your hobby week been?

SPEAKER 3: Good. I'm, I'm in the first day of a four day weekend. Being in the teaching profession. We, we have today off because we didn't have enough snow days taken. So, we get today off, we get Monday off for Memorial Day. As, as most people do. So, four days and, you know, it felt like a Saturday today and it's just Friday. So, that's always a good feeling.

SPEAKER 2: Well, when I asked you, I said, how's your hobby week? You've had a good hobby week, haven't you?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I got, well, I spent some money that I was gonna, I was tabbing for the, I spent the money like, a month and a half ago. No, it's not that long ago.

SPEAKER 3: But, got, got the, got this card for those that are watching.

SPEAKER 2: And for those that are listening. That's a stunning Hank Karen Rookie.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, 3.5. I'm actually debating, I got an A C C order going in, going out Tuesday and I'm debating, like, having them look at it and see if it's worthy of a higher grade by their standards. So, I, I haven't decided yet. But, that's, that's, that's a possibility.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I, you know, I'm shopping for my card. So, you know, if, maybe if I get them wrong, well, I'll send it to you for the submission.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, no doubt. What else happened? I played my first game of softball at 50 years of age. That was, interesting.

SPEAKER 2: I wasn't sure if you, I wasn't sure you were gonna make the show tonight when you said you were playing softball yesterday. I had a backup match.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I wasn't sure, you know, it, it was weird. It was weird. And it was playing and I, you know, I've always played in traditional regular leagues and this is, a senior league where you had to be 50 or older to play. So, I was actually one of the young guys. I was like, I could win rookie of the year again.

SPEAKER 3: Someone, someone with the PGA tour. Yeah, it was, you know what it felt like and, and listen, these guys can still play. I don't want to, it felt like if you ever been to, like old Timers Day at Yankee Stadium and what, what was weird for, for me was, you know, you, you forget, you know, when you get, you're getting old and other people getting old along with you, sometimes you forget that.

SPEAKER 3: So there were some guys I played against that I played against when I was in my thirties. And hadn't seen them in a while and here we all are back in, in the league again and, and, you know, they look different, they're heavier and then you realize, hey, guess what?

SPEAKER 3: So do you like, you forget, like time doesn't stop. It's a, it's an eerie reminder that, you know, time is, is moving on and we're just, we're in the stream and, I had some fun. I didn't have, you know, I played, ok.

SPEAKER 3: I had a little rust, had the knockoff, hit the ball. Well, feeling I was a little slow on the reflexes but, if I keep playing out, those will come back, I think slowly.

SPEAKER 2: I, I, I genuinely was worried if I was gonna see you tonight. So, I'm glad, you know, cause I, I, I, I didn't hear, I thought you were in school today, so I didn't, didn't call you all day. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, he's in the hospital with two pulled hamstrings, you know, two pulled hamstrings. This is why old Jewish men don't go running around and doing things.

SPEAKER 3: Chris Ramsey says John Newman. Can you blast home runs in softball? Well, I'll say the last home run I, I am a home run type of guy. I mean, I've hit plenty out. The last home run I hit was at age 48. So I, it'd be nice to hit one at, at 50 I haven't, I've only played one game at, at, at 50 but the last one I officially hit was as a 48 year old player in a regular league. So that's something to be said about, big.

SPEAKER 2: News this week in the hobby world I think is what we want to talk about tonight.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, I, I thought we were gonna just talk my softball career on the show.

SPEAKER 2: I thought we covered it all in about a minute. Was there more?

SPEAKER 3: Well, I think we're good. What, what do you.

SPEAKER 2: What do you think? You're Jenny Finch? I mean, you know, you play one game, buddy. Were you in the hall of fame?

SPEAKER 3: No, I'm not, Jenny Finch. She has a glove named after her. So, no, no, I'm not.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I want, I want a sub named after me. She can have a glove. I want a Sub.

SPEAKER 3: The Jared.

SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah. Well, that one that, that sub went bad.

SPEAKER 2: But what was the big news? What, what if you haven't heard by now? P W C C purchased by Fanatics? And this is interesting for you and I on, because the timing on a personal level, I have you P W C C for a little while since they've turned around some of their Ebay problems.

SPEAKER 2: And I encouraged you, I'll say maybe I pushed you a little bit to follow, you know, some of the stuff and you used it a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: And then there was some layoffs and some rumors.

SPEAKER 2: I know you took your cards out of the vault, just because you wanted to have your cards.

SPEAKER 2: I had a client who was very worried about what was going on, with the layoffs and if P W C C, was, was in financial trouble, but then we had word that Fanatics who has no financial troubles because they're buying, every company under the sun has gone in and bought P W C C. So for me, it, it was just a whirlwind in a matter of a week or two, you know, of everything going on with them.

SPEAKER 2: You know, what do you think about everything?

SPEAKER 3: It's smart, you know, whether you like Fanatics or not, it's a smart move by them because they get an instantly up and running marketplace and auction house in the sense, they have a vault that's state of the art in Oregon with the no state taxes.

SPEAKER 3: So like they checked all their boxes with one check that they wrote, you know, and so, and I think, and, and if no, no figures have come out as, you know, Danny, but everything I'm hearing for that, that number may not be as high as what they paid as, as some think because what I'm hearing is that P W C C got in a little trouble with that lending lease thing.

SPEAKER 3: They did what they where they would let people take money off out of the, you know, for the cars in the vault, the cards were the collateral and people were defaulting on the loans essentially. Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: And so they got in from a little more financial trouble than people the outside realize and the first sign was the layoffs and the second sign was Fanatics buying them and, and then it becomes Fanatics bill. But like you said, Fanatics can cover those bills and then some, and then some and then some and then some.

SPEAKER 3: And so, you know, I, I the, the days of getting a loan off your cards, I believe are, are, I don't think that's a model Fanatics is going to implore and you know, what they do from here is what's gonna be interesting. How much are they gonna change?

SPEAKER 3: Including the name of the, is it gonna be PB P W C C A division of Fanatics or is Fanatics gonna just brand? I mean, everything will be the same, the vaults the same, but we just be branded under something, you know, Fanatics or something else that they coin themselves.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I'm, I'm continuing to use them, but I, like I put up this comment because I thought you might find this one, particularly relatable sports doctor card collector, also known as Steven.

SPEAKER 2: I use P W C C. They haven't shipped me anything in May, the layoffs must have been all the shippers, similar experiences from, for all of us, to be honest.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I had to, you know, talk to three or four people and like, hey, I really need my order. I mean, I really just wanted the Hank to, to, to full disclose there was nine cards. The Hank was the big one and then the rest were like, anywhere from 20 to $100 the other eight.

SPEAKER 3: So I, I was more worried about the Hank. Not worried, but I wanted that I wanted it here at my house sooner than later. So I was a to, to be, blunt honest, I really pestered them.

SPEAKER 3: I don't know if that's, you know, you know, calls and, and, you know, text and, and, you know, I, I think I sent a carrier pigeon once and I, I think it got there, you know, but, you know, someone asked me too, Danny, like now that you have all your stuff out, will you, like, buy stuff again?

SPEAKER 3: Like, I've never sold on P W C C. So, that's something I haven't even done yet. But as far as buying honestly, the way I would answer that is I'm probably gonna wait to see, you know, what happens now. And, you know, you're in a different boat than me as a, as a broker and, and, and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 3: So you have clients that, you list their cards on, on different platforms, including P W C C I, I don't have that, that you know, itinerary.

SPEAKER 3: So I'm frankly, I've shut down my buying anyway and in preparation for the National, but even if that wasn't the case, I probably would be in a wait and see kind of M O with now this acquisition to see how they're gonna do it. What are they gonna call it? Are they going to change any of the structure, the pricing structure?

SPEAKER 3: And that sort of thing. So, you know, so the answer will be, I'm probably not gonna be buying anything in the immediate future. It would be interesting to see at the National. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER 3: I think we'll know a lot with that stuff at the National, whether it's gonna be renamed because if it's gonna be renamed, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna have a se, they're gonna have their own booth at the National. It's not gonna be under just the fanatic fanatic.

SPEAKER 3: You're gonna have their booth, the zero cool Tops. And, you know, P P W C C who's at the, the, the National? They'll be there. But what will it be called? And, you know, and that, what, what do you, what.

SPEAKER 2: Did you nickname it now? The, National fanatical or?

SPEAKER 3: Oh, yeah. If, if, if Fanatics buys the National, they'll have to rename it the fanatical.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think, I think they're close to that many booths that you can call it that.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. You know, like you, you ask all your hobby friends? Hey, am I gonna see you at the National? Are you going to the National now? It'll be like, hey, am I gonna see you at the fanatical or are, are you going to the fanatical? It's kind of fun. I'm not gonna lie. It would grow on me if it really happened.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I will, I'm gonna be honest. I love P W C C. I, I think it's a great platform. I think it's easy to use. I do have to do business with there. You're, you're right about that.

SPEAKER 2: But you also know there's two cards I'm hunting for and I check the auctions every week and I check for deals every week and there's very few places to go where you're gonna get that many quality graded cards in, in an easy interactive format where you can also trust that you're gonna get what you pay for.

SPEAKER 2: You know, that, that, that's an advantage to me. I don't think there's a lot of options.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, whatever. And I was probably one of P W C C's biggest critics during that 2018 debacle with the Feds supposedly involved show bidding, cut cards, trimming, you know, all sorts of stuff you name it. It was like Murphy's law with that company.

SPEAKER 3: And listen, I, you know, I gotta, you gotta be honest whether you like, you know, they really rebuilt their name. They kind of, you know, the whole thing with Ebay happened, but Ebay never released any proof. So it's a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: Just kick them off the platform.

SPEAKER 3: Well, they accused him of show bidding, which is why they were being kicked off, but no proof was ever rendered to my knowledge. And, you know, I had Jesse Craig on my show and I, I, and I still feel this way like to me, if I'm P W C C, I would have sued for slander, right? You're saying, oh, you're shielding and you're off, you're off if that's not true.

SPEAKER 3: But, you know, like he pointed out it's not cheap to, to, to counter sue or sue. There's no guarantee you win. And I, I've also been told by a, a lawyer friend of mine that even if you win a slander case, your, your court costs aren't cov covered by your, by your win.

SPEAKER 3: So it still cost you to clear your name and they just didn't think they were already, were, had a lot of plans in place with their own premier auctions. They didn't want to spend a lot of time in a courtroom. They wanted to spend their time building and repairing their brand on their own side of the house.

SPEAKER 3: So that's, that, that's why he said they didn't, you know, countersue. But that being said, where I was going with that is they really sort of, you know, built, rebuilt their company and now they rebuilt it enough where it was marketable to P W C to Fanatics who now acquired them. So a lot of question marks, what changes, what doesn't change.

SPEAKER 3: And I'm, I'm, I'm gonna wait and see anyway cause I'm, I'm done buying stuff to the National but I would be wait and see if this was October.

SPEAKER 2: I know Chris Ramsey just asked, how much does Fanatics raise prices on P W C products? Well, the P W C C that really doesn't sell their own products. They're selling other people's cards. So there is a fee structure. I would doubt that they raise the fees any higher. That's kind of an industry standard. They, you know, if they raise it more than Golden, they're gonna lose business to Golden.

SPEAKER 2: So I think it'll stay, you know, kind of where it is from that perspective, you know, where, where it could get better is Fanatics can offer more services. So there, there you could see more add ons and I could see that being a, you know, a situation where you can buy the cards from, from Fanatics and you know, have them, have them graded and vaulted through P W C C which they offer now.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I don't think they, they can't like buy premiums kind of high if you ask me to begin with the same.

SPEAKER 3: Well, they're all high then and they're all like, it's almost like collusion. They're all like, hey, let's do this together.

SPEAKER 3: And we all do all right. Right. So I don't see that being raised and I think it would be a very bad move if they did, like you said, they lose business. They are trying to maintain business right. There is gonna be people who are probably big fans of P W C C who maybe don't stay because of this.

SPEAKER 3: You know, there might be some fan or some people who don't like P W C C who say now, well, P W C C don't own it now. It's Fanatics and let me look at this where I wouldn't have before. So I think they're gonna lose some people and I think they're gonna gain some people. And I think what, what their focus needs to be on is the people who are already there to keep them there.

SPEAKER 2: I also wonder, where else do you go? Ebay?

SPEAKER 3: I mean Ebay is the number one platform for almost every everything, right?

SPEAKER 2: That's not a positive experience though, usually even they've gotten better.

SPEAKER 3: They've made some improvements with some of their seller tools and their, their fee structures. You can get your money quicker, you can get your money in different ways. You can, if you have money that you've gotten from selling stuff, you can buy stuff with that money, like, directly out of your account. So they've, they've changed a lot of their stuff. So I think they're better than they used to be too.

SPEAKER 2: So, well, P W C C, one of the things I like is if you don't pay for an item, you're kicked off the site forever on the one strike and Ebay, you never know if you're getting paid or you don't know if you're getting paid or, or if you're not getting paid or if you're getting your item or not getting your item. And then there, there's really not any, any any downside to the seller or, you know, or buyer who doesn't come through.

SPEAKER 3: Now. It's a good point. It's a good point and, and people can demand a refund for almost no reason at all. And, you know, but they, they've been proving a lot of the other areas and, and I do like the P W C C model, right? You mess up one time, you, you lose your privilege to use that site.

SPEAKER 3: And I like that and you know, I hope that doesn't change but we'll see who's to say Fanatics don't come in and say, hey, let's let's do a three strike your router, dude, you know, not to alienate anybody. I, I don't know, it's gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER 3: For sure. You know, we'll see how we'll see what what changes. If, if anything, including the name, you know, what, what are they gonna be called now?

SPEAKER 2: Well, I, I, I told you, I think they're gonna be called P W, see you later. Because Fanatics is Fanatics is coming in.

SPEAKER 2: But would, would you try Golden? Now that you've done, tried this type of marketplace, would you try Golden's Weekly auctions that they're just kind of starting?

SPEAKER 3: Only if Peyton Manning was my sales rep. See, that's the thing.

SPEAKER 2: I don't necessarily want to give my business now. Golden, let's talk about, you know, monopoly and ecosystems. Golden's under the collectors universe or collectors umbrellas. So you've got P S A Golden auctions, Golden Marketplace card ladder.

SPEAKER 2: And I'm sure I'm forgetting so some, but, you know, they, they're a pretty big corner of the market, you know, that people don't talk about nearly as often and with the Golden Marketplace and the Golden auctions, they're fighting the same thing.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Yeah. No, no doubt.

SPEAKER 3: You know, I don't, I don't know, man, I, you know, I'm looking at Ruben's question here not to get obtained. It's a good one. It's the one I get asked. I'm sure you have too. You know, it was something Fanatics said when they first acquired Tops, right?

SPEAKER 2: Ruben says, do you guys think in the future will have their own grading company?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, that's what I'm actually talking about is if, if you remember Ruben when they first acquired Tops, he was go doing sort of like the, the tour of, of, like financial network shows. And he mentioned them become, you know, grading as being one of the things they get involved in.

SPEAKER 3: Hasn't happened yet. I hope not. I hope not because I think it's a conflict of interest. Danny, we've had this conversation a ton, non recording it. Right. I think it's huge if Fanatics was a grading co became a, they beat, let's say Fanatics buys Beckett.

SPEAKER 3: Right. And that's probably the most logical. If they're gonna buy a grading card company, it's, it. Beckett's gonna be number one on that list that it's kind of been their M O.

SPEAKER 2: C G s. But, you know.

SPEAKER 3: So let's, let's use beer for example. So they buy Beckett now they're a grading company and I just, you know, they're gonna be grading Tops cards and it's a conflict of interest and then they're gonna be grading upper debt cards, a competitor and Panini a competitor. But, and you know, I just, I, I, I wouldn't deal with, I mean, I wouldn't use them.

SPEAKER 3: So I love S G C and P S A. And most people, if anyone that knows me in detail, those are my two go tos when it comes to Grady. If, if Fanatics bought either one of those, which P S A is not gonna happen. But if Fanatics bought S G C and I'll say this now and I hope it doesn't happen.

SPEAKER 3: So I don't have to eat these words and, and actually do what I'm about to say. I wouldn't send S G C no more. I wouldn't bulk sub for them no more. I just wouldn't feel comfortable in that situation. They're grading their own products. And I just think, you know, it's, it's, but just don't, I don't, I don't.

SPEAKER 2: Throw this at you. P W C C offers a grading service where they'll send it out for you. Now, it's different. They're not grading it for themselves. But essentially now Fanatics owns a company where they'll send out in your cards for grading and, and then they'll sell it, you know, in their marketplace.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, but to a grading company they don't own. That's the difference. That's true. I just don't want them owning a grading company and grading Tops cards. That's like a huge, that's a huge conflict of interest. It's like me, you know, it's like me grading my own cards and put, put them in slabs and saying, hey, here's my Hank Aaron rookie now, a 10 the John Newman grading company.

SPEAKER 2: Well, first of all, the John Newman grading company is ridiculous.

SPEAKER 3: I, I will scrap that idea.

SPEAKER 2: Well, we're talking about Beckett. I, one of the things I think that people forget is Beckett's biggest value right now. It's probably their data. Their grading business is, is not a big money maker they're.

SPEAKER 3: They're not now, they're, they're down in, you know, on the rope. But that's, that's the perfect scenario. This is what likes to do right by a company at the lowest value and say, you know, and, and then build it back.

SPEAKER 2: Up and then like, and they like data. They would, they would immediately have what the, the most comprehensive database of cards, you know, a built-in marketplace of, of Becket sellers that has millions of people of buyers and sellers still in the Beckett marketplace.

SPEAKER 3: Well, what, let me, let me turn around and ask you, would it, would it bother you if Fanatics bought beet grading and became Fanatics grading?

SPEAKER 2: Well, I, first of all, I think hopefully they don't change the name because I'd like to say the name, but that being set aside, I know it should bother me and I know it should be a conflict of interest and I'm not sure that how much it actually would.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, but I think we get off a different stops off.

SPEAKER 2: This, here's the thing I'm never grading with, with Beckett. So to me, well, you know.

SPEAKER 3: I used to, I used to grade with Beckett full disclosure. My last sub was probably three or four years ago with them, maybe a little bit longer than, than that.

SPEAKER 3: But I definitely, I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't grade if I don't grade with them, but it, let's say I was, you know, I, and, and Fanatics acquires them. That would be the end of that. I just think it's a huge conflict of interest that I can't support, but I'm with you.

SPEAKER 2: I'm sending a P S A and S G C anyway. So, and you know, and you're right, if, if they bought S G C, if fanatic bought S G C, I'm probably not sending a test.

SPEAKER 3: Just I, so I, I, like I said, man, I, I love F G C. You know, I send my cards there. I both sub form but.

SPEAKER 2: This is going out guys, make sure you return it quickly.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, but if, if, if they were acquired by finance, that would be the end of my relationship, my to do that. I just, I wouldn't be able to support that because I think it's a conflict of interest, right? And, and listen, they're gonna own 3/4 of, of the marketplace here in a year or two as far as production of, of cards.

SPEAKER 3: So you could say, well, don't send Tops produce cards to Fanatics grading. But that brat's my other question. Are they gonna be harsher on their, their, their competitions card to make them look, man, look at the quality. You can, you know, none of these Panini cards very, you know, are getting a low rate of nines and tens.

SPEAKER 3: Oh man, an upper deck struggles to get a nines and tens from Fanatics grading. But Tops, man, they're, you know, and, and that's that, you know, and some might say, well, John, you're already, you're already judging them before even this is all.

SPEAKER 3: But I just, it's a conflict of interest. It's not about judging. I just don't even want that cloud to be over anybody I sub with. And so I will go, if that happens, I'll be P S A only if they bought S G C and, and I hope that doesn't happen. So I don't have to be just P S A only, you know, the.

SPEAKER 2: More you talk about it, the more I probably, you know, a agree with you on the conflict of interest.

SPEAKER 2: I do think that, Beckett is right for being bought. The question is who?

SPEAKER 3: So you think they're for, for sure gonna be sold?

SPEAKER 2: I think if somebody wants a grading company, you, you.

SPEAKER 3: Already, I think they're first on the list to, to be acquired because the chips are down and, and they're, they're, they're gonna be the cheapest one to acquire. Now.

SPEAKER 3: It has a name still.

SPEAKER 2: I mean, petty says you have inside information.

SPEAKER 3: I don't, I don't as far as what, who's getting bought.

SPEAKER 2: That's because Newman knows what's coming.

SPEAKER 3: I wish I, I, here's my crystal ball right here.

SPEAKER 2: I can, and I can tell you from talking offline. Here's my crystal ball.

SPEAKER 3: Hello?

SPEAKER 3: You know what I, speaking of like, I know what's coming. You know what I do like to do. I like to go to psychics house at three AM in the morning and wake them up and when they get, when they get all pissed off at me. So didn't you know I was coming. Why weren't you waiting? You're phony baloney.

SPEAKER 3: All right. That's my joke.

SPEAKER 2: But I love it.

SPEAKER 2: I actually used that one with the two.

SPEAKER 3: So, what are you mad about? You should have known I was coming. I know it's three in the morning.

SPEAKER 2: Put your dad jokes in the comments. If you have them, there are two things that, that, that I'm curious about. If, if people are not buying on P W C C, where are they buying? And do you have good dad joke?

SPEAKER 2: I think, I think that's all that we need in life. We need to know where our cards are coming from and we need a little.

SPEAKER 3: Humor and there's a lot of platforms, man. Yeah. And anyone wants, you see that? Where do you, where do you buy them? My slabs, I'll buy some grated cards from my slabs. I buy off Ebay.

SPEAKER 3: I was a little bit of P W C C recently. That's a more recent sport lots. I'll buy, I'll do some prospecting there where I'll buy, you know, a young player, you know where that someone's marked them, listed them cheaply.

SPEAKER 3: C I've bought, I bought a lot of stuff, there, do you think C is right for purchase? No, I think they had their own, their, that I think they had their own machine. I don't think they, I mean, you know, it's the old saying.

SPEAKER 3: Right. Everybody has a price. So I guess what I'm saying, there, Danny is, their price will be too high to be, to be purchased. But I think they're, they're doing real well. They've made a name for themselves.

SPEAKER 3: And, I don't, I can, they be bought? Sure. Right. If someone bucks up with a, with a big number, I just don't think that there's gonna be a big number enough, where they're gonna be purchased.

SPEAKER 3: So, you know, my slam is a possibility, you know, and, sport lots, you know, maybe they, someone can, you know, their, their biggest problems, just their, their websites a little archaic maybe, that, you know, he sells, the company and then let someone kind of modernize sort of what they do.

SPEAKER 2: I was gonna say that about C's App coming out that could really change, change a lot of things for them because if they wanted to go to a weekly auction format, I think they have the buyer base. They're one of the few companies that can have enough buyers and sellers almost immediate.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, they won't be, they won't be bought because I don't think they can be, or, you know, I don't think someone's gonna pay what they would want, to sell. You got, like you said, you get the app that'll probably take them to the next seal through the next ceiling.

SPEAKER 3: And so they're definitely gonna, they're gonna wait and see what that does. And so, but.

SPEAKER 2: How great would it be if they had a week auction in a marketplace like P W C C or Golden? I would love to have that as another option.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm sort of a, I'm not ac ac power user, I'm sort of what, you know, I, I, I use them, I have stuff listed. I sell, I sell stuff on there, but I'm, I'm definitely not anywhere near a power user. I don't know what you want to call. It. Just sort of on the casual level.

SPEAKER 2: I have lifetime sales of $19 on.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I got, you beat considerably. But I still like there's people who, I mean, they do some serious transactions on there buying and selling. I, that's my point.

SPEAKER 2: That's, you know, to, to have a site work like P W C C and this is why I think Fanatics bought them is they have the user base, they have enough buyers and sellers. If you and I wanted to start a, you know, a AAA place tonight, we wouldn't have the enough people to buy and sell.

SPEAKER 2: You just couldn't start it here. Ruben says I've used, it's Ebay Four Sharp corners. A lot of people like Four Sharp corners. My slabs come see and my local card shop and shows. But, yeah, those are always, my preferences.

SPEAKER 3: I, I've, I've got to check out this four shop, sharp corners. I'm hearing a lot about them. They've, they've sort of replaced P W C C as one of the biggest movers of cards on Ebay.

SPEAKER 3: And I've heard a lot of good stuff, about them. So they're on my list to kind of check out what, what they've listed Greg Moore's cards is another one that guy moves in a lot of inventory.

SPEAKER 2: And a lot of vintage.

SPEAKER 3: Also, a lot of vintage Greg Moore is a lot of vintage. I hear a lot of people former sponsor of sports for Nation. They, they sell a lot of cards like you said, especially on the vintage side of the house. And, and one thing I'll say about Greg Moore is they seem to have quantities of, of cards where other peoples have singles and, and they'll have duplicates and, and multiple copy.

SPEAKER 2: And and what I was gonna say, they also will show you different, you know, conditions of the cards.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Yeah. So they're another one. So there's, you know, you know, we, we, we can talk about some of the defunct ones, right, Star Stock. No one talks about it anymore. There's always somebody that replaces when someone, it goes down, someone steps in and fills that well.

SPEAKER 2: But my, my argument is, I actually think there's gonna be less and that's why I think Fanatics bought P W C C instead of starting their own. I think it's so hard to get that user base built in. I mean, as much as Fanatics has a name, if they opened up their own, you know, marketplace today, I don't think everybody's leaving Golden and P W C C and rushing over just because it's Fanatics. So I think they almost had to buy an ex.

SPEAKER 3: No, that's a great point. I think there's, you know, the market, the markets kind of quieted down. Right. The hobby is not dead. I'm not, let's not say that. And believe me, I'm, I'm as, as someone who sells cars, I'm still doing sales and doing all right. My last six shows have been pretty good and, and, or, or even better than pretty good. And so, but, I mean, stuff is selling cheaper.

SPEAKER 3: I think expensive cards are becoming a little bit harder to sell. There's a, a limited market form. They're nice to have, they're nice to acquire. But, you know, you know, when I do shows that we've had this conversation, Dan, you just did your first show, in a long time yourself? In, in Manville, Pittsburgh, my second, my second hometown. Or I like to paint.

SPEAKER 2: The double tree Hilton, by the way. They're fantastic. Sorry, I took your key with me. I just found it in my wallet.

SPEAKER 3: They're gonna charge you like, $50 for that thing maybe. But, so it, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. Right. It, it, it's interesting and, and when, you know, when I do shows I make a lot of my money on, on between that 20 to $100 range.

SPEAKER 3: Do I have four figure cards in the showcase? Yeah. Have I sold them out of the showcase? Yes, but, you know, I it's probably easier to sell 50 $20 cards rather than, you know, 1000 card. But when you do right, it's always a nice feel. It's always a nice.

SPEAKER 2: I'm, I'm finding that the online marketplace is not to keep going back to it or selling high dollar cards much better than, than card shows.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. And I think that's where people are going, right? Because they know, you know, your card shows, I, I think people are there more, a lot of times for more quantity rather than even quantity.

SPEAKER 3: And so they're more quality, I should say they're there more for quantity over quality. So they're looking to, you know, come out of the show with a bag, I think for those who are looking, you know, for a single card of significance, you know, online auctions are kind of where a lot of those transactions take place.

SPEAKER 3: There's relationships there let's, let's be very blunt and, and honest about it. There's people, significant buyers who know people behind the scenes. Hey, I'm in the market for this. You see one, you list one.

SPEAKER 3: Give me a call, give me a text, give me an email. So there's a lot of that stuff going at that level that you won't, you know, all the local show, regional shows, the nationals are different thing.

SPEAKER 2: No, I was, I was agreeing with you that there's private buyer connections and, and all these companies and auction houses, not everything sees the light of day. You know, there are a lot of these connections are made on phone calls and behind closed doors.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of, a lot of the comes from phone calls in, in some cases, if someone's not by a computer but is interested in something I think it's called a proxy bid if my you know, my nola is correct.

SPEAKER 3: So, so, yeah, I mean, I, I, again, I like having, you know, it's nice to have an expensive car but the, the more expensive the car, the harder it is to, you know, more people and I, and point to it and be in front of your showcase. Hey, check this out, man, this car. Yeah, that's nice. You get a lot of conversation from it. Right.

SPEAKER 3: And I, and I've, I've been fortunate, I've sold some of that stuff. Right. But I do, I, my wheelhouse is that 20 to $100 in single cars range, even some lesser ones, even 5 $10 cards. And that stuff adds up in, in its own. Right.

SPEAKER 3: And it's, you know, I, I like to have stuff if, if anyone's ever seen my 23 tables that I usually have at a show, my prices really cover every budget, you know, I'm very budget friendly. I, I try not to close anybody out. You know, you go to the National, right? And it's awesome, you know, Breakers Row, I'll use them, for example.

SPEAKER 3: You know, they got one case, it's like all Mike Trout, R P A s, they got another case. All high end Michael Jordan. The first thing I say is how did they even obtain all this stuff? Like what did this cost? Right? But if you're not in the market for those, right?

SPEAKER 3: You're gonna, your jaw is gonna hit the four, you're gonna pick it back up and then reset your jaw, but you're probably not buying anything, right? And, but, and with some of that stuff, you know, their show could be made their whole week as you well know, Danny can literally be made with one sale. You sell a car would be $100,000.

SPEAKER 3: You know what I mean? That's, that's your week. And obviously they're gonna have not, probably not just sell one car they're gonna sell multiple cards but you sell a card of that significance. Good evening to Orlando Collectors Dream. So, you know, it's, it's crazy.

SPEAKER 3: Well, the stuff you say and, and, and, and you can't compare a National to your, your local car show, right? I mean, it's apple to, to our, even, even worse than that. But regional shows, I think, I think we're the bigger higher dollar card show or your, your regional shows and, and your big, your big shows.

SPEAKER 2: Now, let me catch up on the text a little bit. Chris wanted to know about, the weekend. Chris, I, I really don't, take long weekends. I work whenever I need to and I take off whenever I need to.

SPEAKER 2: So I'll be working most of the weekend and hanging out with my family and going to minor league games tomorrow. But, you know, if you have cards to sell or to buy, you know, call me, I'm always a villain.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, you, you're home, you work from home. So you, you kind of like you make your, you do make your, I.

SPEAKER 2: Do, I do car pool and then I work all day. But that, that, that's pretty much my routine.

SPEAKER 2: Collectors dream. You said he, hello there, wanted to make sure we caught up.

SPEAKER 2: I sound like Nicholas Cage. Evidently. I haven't heard that one before.

SPEAKER 2: Did Panini ever, buy Leaf? No, it doesn't mean it's not gonna happen but it did not happen. Even though multiple people said it was done, it was not done.

SPEAKER 3: So, yeah, it's, it's, it, you know, I'd love to be a fly in the wall in some of these, you know, board rooms to see what's really going on. And, but no, Leaf, Leaf is its own company still. Panini is still its own company still.

SPEAKER 3: For the moment we'll see, we'll, we'll break news if, if we hear anything and I, I'll be honest with you, you know, I'm not gonna lie. I do sometimes get some in, you know, like you, some information comes from sources inside a company, you know, with, you know, a caveat sometimes. I'm telling you this guys but don't repeat it, please.

SPEAKER 3: I haven't heard anything on that front, now that it's kind of died, died down. So I don't know, think anything's imminent, there. And so I don't know, I don't know what happened, or if it was more people speculating and, and, and just starting a rumor.

SPEAKER 2: Just to clean up also a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: Do you think Fanatics will buy a grading company? We touched on that a little bit earlier.

SPEAKER 2: They probably want to, but it's, it's probably not gonna happen just for a conflict of interest.

SPEAKER 2: It's probably not worth it in real time dollars to them. To what they would actually make versus, what they could lose in reputation and, and everything else. So I think that's kind of where we fall. Theirs, we don't think it would happen.

SPEAKER 2: P W C C buying ISA, the conservation company.

SPEAKER 2: That'd be interesting.

SPEAKER 2: You know, the vaulting and taking care of.

SPEAKER 3: ISA is a grading company too, owned by.

SPEAKER 3: I, I think O T sports has a stake in it. I don't know if it's a full, I don't know all the details.

SPEAKER 2: But I will say, I will say as a broker, I, I don't use them at all as a writing company.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: No, I don't either, but I still get like emails and, you know, promos and so I believe they're owned by some of a big powerhouse in, in the hobby. I think it's might be Jason Coons. I, I could be wrong.

SPEAKER 2: Because that was, I think it was Jeff Wilson that, did a piece in somebody else. But he's, he's got, he's got a shady, history as well.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Yeah. As, as Mike Petty. There's Mike Petty commenting right there and I've heard that, I've heard that. Thank you. Thank you, Mike.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. So I've heard that too. I've heard that too.

SPEAKER 3: You know, just like I've said P S A and G C are my go tos, right now and, you know, to answer your question. Orlando. I think Fanatics would love to own a grading company. But I think they know that would be such a red tape deal and such a apr nightmare that I think it's not that they can't afford it.

SPEAKER 3: I think they just don't want the headache that will come along with trying to convince everyone that they're, you know, there's no conflict of interest when most people will feel there is Mike and Orlando are on every live according to well, maybe they've cloned ourselves John. So maybe it's not really just them, it's maybe it's their clones.

SPEAKER 2: So collection's dream says, thanks John for talking about that even though I think I gave the answer first, but sure, thank John. Give him all the I'm.

SPEAKER 3: Better looking than you. It's close. We're both ugly. I'm just the least of. No, I actually I don't, I don't even, I can't say that with a straight face.

SPEAKER 2: Mike Petty. I live for live L O L.

SPEAKER 2: And Mike and I are twins from Collector Stream. Well, guys, we, we appreciate having all of you and we are every other Friday night. And so if you want to come hang out with us, this is, this is what we do is we just, you know, we try to, we try to be cheers with, with cards.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. And if listen also, if everyone has like a future topic, they want to hear us, chop up. By all means, we're very, we're very open to feedback and, and that sort of thing like Danny said, shameless plug. We're live every other Friday and if you miss us live, we don't want to see us live because of our ugly mugs. I get it. You can, you can hear us on audio on the phone following Monday, of that Friday, audio.

SPEAKER 2: I'll let you read this one because I know that you had a special relationship with your grandparents.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Mike says I love the Mensches. My grandpa was a men, right? We all should try to be Mensches, right? It's like it's what you try to be, you know, for those that don't know, let's scroll on about them.

SPEAKER 3: Men is a a Hebrew word for a kind, thoughtful and honorable person and, and you know, if you, anyone, it's become we've had this conversation, Danny while maybe a Hebrew word, it's kind of crossed over and become like an English language word that you hear people of, of non-Jewish faith or, or of not Jewish heritage. And it, and I, I'm OK, that doesn't bother me cause it's a term of endearment.

SPEAKER 3: And so if anyone ever calls you a Mensch, it's a good thing, right? Sometimes it can sound, he didn't know it might sound sort of bad like you're a men and you might say Oh boy, I'm gonna punch you in the face. Don't do it because that's a compliment.

SPEAKER 2: You would no longer be a Mensch if you did that.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, if he did that, you lose your Mensch badge.

SPEAKER 2: All right. So, I think we've covered the, P W C C, pretty well here.

SPEAKER 2: Any, any final comments on.

SPEAKER 3: That, you know, like a lot of people, Danny, I just, I, I wanna see what, how this all shakes down. What do they change from the name and how fast? Yeah, you know, that's what you don't want to be called the puts you, right?

SPEAKER 2: That, that has become universal.

SPEAKER 3: And thank you, Chris.

SPEAKER 3: I want to see what happens, what is it gonna be called? How fast, what is their setup gonna look like if you're going to to the National right before it becomes the fanatical after Fanatics buys the nash.

SPEAKER 3: You know, so I, I want to see what changes, what doesn't change and that sort of thing. And, and I think a lot of people are curious.

SPEAKER 4: Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back, experience quality consistency and the quickest turnaround times in the grading industry, we are proud to partner with S G C grading. Check them out at www dot go SGC dot com.

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SPEAKER 3: Hey, great comment. I switched on the screen. I just, I took a pit stop, got four new tires and passed you.

SPEAKER 3: For Mike Robo, I want to put this up here. I know we're kind of done but a good point by him. I kind of concur, you know, I hope Fernan customer service is better than that of P W C C. Yeah, I think, I think that's a lot of people's sentiments.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I, I think to be fair, this has been a tough week to get good customer service at P W C C.

SPEAKER 3: True, but I think it's even before that, I don't want to give him a free pass. Danny. I think there was some stuff that might be more with the layoffs they had because a lot of it probably came out and seems to come out who, who had.

SPEAKER 2: The comment earlier that I think Steven had the comment earlier that all the layoffs. Yeah. Must have been in shipping. I think you're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: And then what do we have, Mike Petty, look at this Fancy commercial. That's the only way Newman rolls I've learned when you do, when you do, content creation with Newman, it is always first class, with the sponsors. So we appreciate, all of them.

SPEAKER 3: Now I, I like this but Fanatics to buy S C N, I don't know. Know, that's a sports car, not a sports car Nation or maybe both of us. So I don't know. Yeah, I just took it off the screen. I, I can be, I can be bought, I can be bought. But I'm gonna keep the, they can buy the show, but I'm keeping the hobbies, the people deadline that stays with me.

SPEAKER 2: All right, Reuben, your call is important to us. Your wait time is three days.

SPEAKER 3: And, and if you get mad at him, I'll say it could have been four, right?

SPEAKER 2: That's, that's funny.

SPEAKER 2: All right. Well, let's, I know we wanted to quickly touch on and get people's opinion on a certain specific, NBA championship round game. And as we give advice here, we always want to remind, welcome to the.

SPEAKER 4: Failure segment where John and Danny share their picks. Sure to go wrong.

SPEAKER 2: So the picks, the pick today is, will Boston come back against Miami and pull off the upset. What do you think, Sean?

SPEAKER 3: Well, man, this thing looked like it was gonna be a four game series. Miami, you know, Bo raced out to a three game to none lead and Boston's won the last two and in, in convincing fashion and, you know, they're, they're coming back from the dead.

SPEAKER 3: It, it's hard to, I, I'll say this, I think Miami wins this series and I'm only gonna say that because, er, you know, Eric Spoelstra is a coach. He's an excellent coach. Doesn't get enough credit if they were a coach by someone else, maybe not named Erik Spoelstra. I'd say Boston has a chance, to, to go to seven games and win this thing.

SPEAKER 3: I, I know that's, that's kind of being that, you know, that has a 32 lead. I just think it's hard to beat anybody four times in a row. I think it's harder to beat an Erik Spoelstra coach team four times.

SPEAKER 2: In a row. Well, from my viewpoint, one game, if they, if, if, if Jason Tatum can lead them to, to even it up at 33, anything can happen in a game seven.

SPEAKER 3: It's true. It's true. I, I, I'll say this, Boston's the better team if you look at the, if you do, if you know all things being equal, no one has a game lead. You look at the rosters roster is the more, Boston is the more talented roster whose cards go up the most. If, if either Miami, either way, Jimmy Butler Miami wins.

SPEAKER 3: Jimmy Butler's carrying that team on his back. So it's Jimmy Butler and I think for Boston, you know, Jason Tatum stuff's already kind of up there already. I think you got to look at, you know, Jalen Brown, he had a bad game the other day. But if he, if he turns it on like he's capable of and they win the next two games.

SPEAKER 3: He's a guy, you gotta, you know, you, you gotta look at, I, I think, and, you know, but, I think, and then, you know, I said Boston is a better roster player wise. I think the heat have the better coach in Spoelstra. So it's gonna be an interesting game six.

SPEAKER 3: And like you said, I think you hit it on the head if Boston wins game six and forces a game seven and anybody's, it could be anyone's game. So I think Miami's got really buckle down and try to get it done here in, in game six. Or, or we could be talking about, you know, a team winning four straight games and coming back from being 3/4 buried to, to unbury themselves and being the final.

SPEAKER 2: Well, I'm gonna ask you to pull out your crystal ball again because do either of these teams have enough gas left in their tank to take on Denver in the finals cause cause they are beating each other up in this round.

SPEAKER 3: I think Boston matches up the best to beat Denver. If I think if, between, if Miami, even if Miami wins the next game and wins the series four games to two, I think Denver is a more talented team. Now, that being said, I just said Boston's more talented team and Miami might beat them. So you can't, you can't count them, count it all.

SPEAKER 3: I'd like to see Denver win it all with, with Yoki and being a, you know, he could have won the M V P this year too. He didn't, we finished, I believe, fifth and, and, you know, I think he's, he's a, he's obviously a great player. I think him wearing, getting a ring would really vault him up into that conversation more.

SPEAKER 2: You're taking my point, you're taking my point. I, I'm agreeing with you on this.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. So I think I, if Denver, you know, if Denver in their head, they're not gonna come out and say it that I think they're almost rooting for Miami, I think they, they match up better. I think, if it was that Miami, I would definitely pick Denver if it was Denver. Boston.

SPEAKER 3: I would think a little bit about it and that would be to me a more competitive series. But you know, you, you, you, you, you don't know, you don't know. Look at sports is a crazy thing. Look at the Panthers and hockey, an eight seed going to the Stanley Cup final So, you, you know, once, once the postseason happens, you can almost forget about just.

SPEAKER 2: Just gotta get in the play. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: So here's getting back to the original question and I'm gonna tie this together at the beginning. If I were to invest in somebody in the NBA playoffs right now, it would be, yo, because, and I would use a vault. So I don't have to waste any time.

SPEAKER 2: I'd buy the card today. Wait till the NBA finals and sell it next week in the vault and not wait for any shipping and quick flip it that way. And there is an advantage to using a market to plays vaulting company.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, that's assuming a Denver championship.

SPEAKER 2: You see how I snuck that in there, like it's definitely gonna happen.

SPEAKER 3: Well, they're gonna be the favorite, I believe for the reasons you said. Right. You, they're getting all this rest right now. They're watching coaching staffs and players are probably watching, these two teams, beat each other up and, and what they're running.

SPEAKER 3: So they're gonna have that a little bit of, advanced scouting, going on. I mean, and they're gonna be the favorite against probably either of these teams. I think they'll be a bigger favorite against Miami than they would be against Boston.

SPEAKER 3: All right.

SPEAKER 2: What do you got going on this weekend?

SPEAKER 3: Not a whole lot, which is sometimes the best weekends, right? Just some deck time. A little yard work some deck time, some beverages, probably a cigar or two, some music and, a few naps. A few naps in there as well.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, sounds good for an old guy who play soft ball at age 50.

SPEAKER 2: I, like I said, I had a backup bench ready to go just in case you, you, you had pulled two hamstrings.

SPEAKER 3: So, well, I pulled something, I don't know, I even had it but I pulled it and I don't even know what to call it. It's a little sore today. It's starting to feel a little bit better, tonight. So, hopefully whatever it was goes back where it was and still spins on its, you know, on its radius and, and all that stuff.

SPEAKER 2: So, all right. Well, I like this comment, time to look at some cards.

SPEAKER 3: I think, the cards are better looking than, than us too. So I, I concur with Orlando there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER 2: But for everybody who, joined him live and for everybody who's gonna listen on the podcast.

SPEAKER 2: Thanks for, listening to Card Mensches and, John, say goodbye goodbye.